[Deck] Death and Taxes

[Barbed Blightning]

Is Kor Firewalker better than Fiendslayer Paladin ?

It would seem, the opponent has to be casting more than 2 spells a turn to make +1 life per spell > Lifelink. Firststrike and immunity to Abrupt Decay certainly hold some value, and probably make the card boardable in more matches, idk if it makes it worth +1 mana versus the important matches in question - presumably Burn and Huang's UR deck.

I think the one mana makes a pretty big difference. But having applications again Jund or even BUG Delver is a worthy consideration.

That said, I think Firewalker is better in the Burn matchup

[Warden]

Is Kor Firewalker better than Fiendslayer Paladin ?

It would seem, the opponent has to be casting more than 2 spells a turn to make +1 life per spell > Lifelink. Firststrike and immunity to Abrupt Decay certainly hold some value, and probably make the card boardable in more matches, idk if it makes it worth +1 mana versus the important matches in question - presumably Burn and Huang's UR deck.

Another issue is that Fiendslayer only has pro-R and pro-B in regards to spells. Fiendslayer is not Paladin-en-Vec -- and I had to look over this caveat.
Kor Firewalker can block red stuff until the end of time. By contrast, Fiendslayer will die to red creatures/permanents. This is relevant in what you're discussing, as the 1/2 UR delver is playing will kill Fiendslayer with any pre-damage pumps. If I wanted something to nerf red, I'd lean on Kor because 1) it's cheaper (relevant against burn and UR delver playing red) + 2) it has true pro-red, not just red spells.

[cursecatcher]

Tested some against UR Delver last night. It seems like it all comes down to how many Bolts they can find. It feels like we can beat 2-3 in a game, but any more than that gets rough. Also, the second Cruise is probably game over.

Kor Firewalker seemed quite potent, but gets trumped by Sulfuric Vortex pretty easily. That said, I think the firewalkers might be worth it to give us more of a fighting chance here and against Burn.

Another thing I saw on SCG (IQ decklists from a recent event in California), is that people are moving from Mirran Crusader to Brimaz. I love Crusader to death, but the BUG matchup is better than the Red ones, so maybe the switch is warranted. That being said, the BUG matchup is good in large part BECAUSE of Crusader, so removing it entirely might be a mistake. Perhaps a mix would be good.

Also, Spirit of the Lab has just been a lightning rod for removal. The games where it has actually screwed someone have been few. That said, keeping removal away from thalia isn't the worst. Yet adding yet another x/1 (and without flying), is not particularly ideal. Though perhaps a necessary evil in a Cruise world? I'm eager to see what happens in the SCG's between now and the GP.

[Madmankevinx]

Has anyone tried a singleton or maybe even a pair of Hero of Bleadeholds? I'm curious to hear. They beat A. Decay and Bolts? Seems good against miracles after a wipe too. Maybe I'm way out of line here and have no clue haha!

[Barbed Blightning]

Has anyone tried a singleton or maybe even a pair of Hero of Bleadeholds? I'm curious to hear. They beat A. Decay and Bolts? Seems good against miracles after a wipe too. Maybe I'm way out of line here and have no clue haha!

Brimaz or Restoration Angel are better in this deck

[Kayradis]

Brimaz is nuts.

[Mr. Froggy]

Brimaz is nuts.

I second this. Brimaz is my finisher of choice.

[cursecatcher]

You guys all like Brimaz over Mirran Crusader at this point? I presume because of all the lightning bolts floating around? (also the synergy with Karakas can be nice occassionally). I've liked Mirran Crusader for the longest time because of how great it is against BUG, but perhaps that's not the matchup that needs help at the moment?

Another idea recommended to me last night is trying to fit back in a couple Mangara, in an effort to go toe to toe late game with Cruise. Spirit of the Labyrinth has been pretty underwhelming for me (being an x/1 on the ground is just awful), so I am thinking to try other ways of handling the recent metagame shifts. I've never played with Mangara, so I will defer to other's opinions of it.

Heck, what if we just played 2 Baneslayer Angels in the board? Is that totally crazy?

[Finn]

I think a lot of people do not like Brimaz, actually. An opponent having access to Karakas is simply awful against this deck. Granted, that does not happen often, but when it does it is terrible. Brimaz is great against red for breaking parity and dodging removal. But Crusader is a major beating for UBG. He is so fast to end those games - in a way that this deck just does not get to do in any other circumstance - that it gives us a defining tool against one of the most popular decks in the format. Brimaz is arguably stronger in a test tube, but kinda vanilla in practice by comparison.

[cursecatcher]

I have been of the same mind for a long time, Finn. Its just started to feel like the rise of Red, particularly Red Cruise Delver decks make Brimaz sound a lot more attractive. Outside of this choice, I'd call BUG a better matchup than the red decks, so perhaps help should be skewed in that direction?

I also saw that Thomas Enevoldsen seems to have 1+ Relic of Progenitus in his 75 somewhere. Perhaps that is the flexible kind of card needed to fight Cruise? Jotun Grunt was recommended a page or two ago, and I am actually coming around to the idea, assuming 4 flickerwisp maindeck. Spirit of the Labyrinth has just been too fragile in my experiences thus far.

Hopefully DnT shows up at the SCG this weekend to give us some clues of what's best moving forward.

[Barbed Blightning]

You guys all like Brimaz over Mirran Crusader at this point? I presume because of all the lightning bolts floating around? (also the synergy with Karakas can be nice occassionally). I've liked Mirran Crusader for the longest time because of how great it is against BUG, but perhaps that's not the matchup that needs help at the moment?

Another idea recommended to me last night is trying to fit back in a couple Mangara, in an effort to go toe to toe late game with Cruise. Spirit of the Labyrinth has been pretty underwhelming for me (being an x/1 on the ground is just awful), so I am thinking to try other ways of handling the recent metagame shifts. I've never played with Mangara, so I will defer to other's opinions of it.

Heck, what if we just played 2 Baneslayer Angels in the board? Is that totally crazy?

Brimaz's big butt is my main reason for including him, yes. Vigilance and spitting out kittens basically every turn is also a big plus, especially in the Young Pyromancer world we are living in (or soon will be, if GP NJ truly proves UR Delver's strength). He is good against more varied matchups (Miracles, Delver, Burn) as well.

I like where you are going with the Mangara comment. I have always enjoyed playing Mangara as it gives you a very solid alternative to combat.

I think Baneslayer, while cool, is a bit over the top. However, I'd still test it for the lulz.

I have a list with one Brimaz, one Restoration Angel if you're curious.


EDIT: here it is, anyway: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/death-taxes-classic/

[Pans-Advocate]

So I think Momme Grupp's top 4 list from Danish Masters (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8310&d=247778&f=LE) has the exact main deck I would play tomorrow in a blind meta, and 13/15 sideboard cards look perfect. What I'm not so sure about is the Kor Firewalker and the Runed Halo. I'm not sold on Firewalker mainly because it's a 1x that isn't tutorable, and it seems like since the list already has a tutor that maybe COP Red is just better? And Runed Halo is just a card that I haven't seen a truly convincing argument for yet ... What problems does it solve so thoroughly that it's worth the slot? I want to fit a Cataclysm or an Armageddon or two in somehow, and the rest of the cards in the board look kind of hard to cut. I've never actually played with Halo though so I might just be missing its value.

[Barbed Blightning]

So I think Momme Grupp's top 4 list from Danish Masters (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8310&d=247778&f=LE) has the exact main deck I would play tomorrow in a blind meta, and 13/15 sideboard cards look perfect. What I'm not so sure about is the Kor Firewalker and the Runed Halo. I'm not sold on Firewalker mainly because it's a 1x that isn't tutorable, and it seems like since the list already has a tutor that maybe COP Red is just better? And Runed Halo is just a card that I haven't seen a truly convincing argument for yet ... What problems does it solve so thoroughly that it's worth the slot? I want to fit a Cataclysm or an Armageddon or two in somehow, and the rest of the cards in the board look kind of hard to cut. I've never actually played with Halo though so I might just be missing its value.

Kor Firewalker is a 2/2. However, I'd run 2.

EDIT: Ah, derp. I see what you are saying.

Also: I don't see why he ran Halo as well. COP Red is decent, but not that great vs UR Delver (YP Tokens kinda defeat it).

[H]

Kor Firewalker is a 2/2. However, I'd run 2.

EDIT: Ah, derp. I see what you are saying.

Also: I don't see why he ran Halo as well. COP Red is decent, but not that great vs UR Delver (YP Tokens kinda defeat it).

I am guessing Halo was for True-Name?

I am trying to think of how my board should be constructed now, with Burn and UR Burn being as popular now as they are. I feel like COP: Red is almost a must, it lets you concentrate your removal on Pyromancer, since it can deal with the rest. Firewalker is good, he can be Vialed, but Price of Progress can still kill you handily.

That being said, I still want some number of Cataclysms versus Miracles (I think) and a couple of Ethersworns for combo along with at least one Grafdigger's Cage (Elves and Combo). I also always pack at least 2 Rest in Peace. It's been a little while since i've played Death and Taxes. How is everyone else's boards shaping up lately?

[Warden]

You have to hedge the % of your meta/room that's playing red. I agree white players should be concerned about red's rise in popularity -- especially for the upcoming GP that will house a billion participants. I expect lots of budget burn throughout day 1.

Kor is good if you sit across from burn and UR all day but do terribly against the rest of the field. COP: Red is a high-risk, high-return card. I'm a bit sour towards COP: Red because I've lost games where the burn player outright kills me without targeting -- flame rift and PoP turn 4/5 gets there. If you want to trouble burn and storm, Leyline of Sanctity has treated me well -- but it's a different approach to handling red.

[H]

You have to hedge the % of your meta/room that's playing red. I agree white players should be concerned about red's rise in popularity -- especially for the upcoming GP that will house a billion participants. I expect lots of budget burn throughout day 1.

Kor is good if you sit across from burn and UR all day but do terribly against the rest of the field. COP: Red is a high-risk, high-return card. I'm a bit sour towards COP: Red because I've lost games where the burn player outright kills me without targeting -- flame rift and PoP turn 4/5 gets there. If you want to trouble burn and storm, Leyline of Sanctity has treated me well -- but it's a different approach to handling red.

I don't understand what you mean by COP being bad because they "kill you without targeting." COP can stop both examples you provided, I don't see how targeting and COP are related. In fact, Circle of Protection doesn't even target the source of damage, you simply just choose one. I feel I probably only have 2 sideboard slots open to shore up the matchup, so I am looking for high impact cards. I feel like COP is probably one of them. I am not sure if the Kor is though, as a 1 of. A possibility is of course, Absolute Law in that spot, but there is the danger of them just going right to the dome with everything anyway and killing you.

The meta I am looking to beat up on is Miracles, Delver (mostly BUG and RUG), some Blade decks, UR and mono-R Burn and some Sneak and Show. That's what I am trying to hone in a board for.

[cursecatcher]

I am not a fan of CoP:Red because it is only really great if you have a Vial. Otherwise you waste turns worth of mana holding up for activations of CoP? It seems like against a good Burn player they will just play their lands and hold their spells. Whenever you tap mana to actually get a threat down, they will overload your CoP with a flurry of spells. Also, are people using E Tutor to find the CoP? If this is the case, turn sequencing seems to be all kinds of wonky. When do you play Vial if you are trying to get the CoP into play as fast as possible? It seems like Kor Firewalker just plays into the natural play patterns of DnT way better than CoP does. Also, Firewalker has utility against UR Delver, where CoP really does not.

This also relates to another question I've been considering regarding Enlightened Tutor. It seems like many people are bringing in this card in way more matchups than I did when I used to play the card. For example, I would never bring it in against BUG Delver to find RIP because I couldn't bear the card disadvantage. The only matchups where I really liked Tutor were against combo decks like Storm, Dredge, Reanimator, and I suppose Elves. Does Tutor continue to deserve its slot as a 1-2 of in the sideboard?

[tescrin]

COP: Red is a high-risk, high-return card. I'm a bit sour towards COP: Red because I've lost games where the burn player outright kills me without targeting -- flame rift and PoP turn 4/5 gets there. If you want to trouble burn and storm, Leyline of Sanctity has treated me well -- but it's a different approach to handling red.

Wait.. so CoP bugs you even though it does block Flame Rift and PoP, but Leyline is what you use and it can't?

In D&T I think Leyline is reasonable, but I should mention that storm's likely plan is Gobbos T1/T2 (or later if they can't quite do it) to get around BSK, Thalia, and Cannonist. Also, chain of vapor is good and paying 4 to set leyline back down would be a sad time while Leylines make horrid topdecks.


In other news:
Aegis of Honor is a card and Absolute Law seems bad. I guess it helps you stick a BSK; but they brought in Smash anyway; so if they have the nuts, they have it. They may just not care and put down vortex as well.

[Fry]

I play two Burrenton Forge-Tender in my board as well as a SoLaS. Forege-Tender does not target so it can stop everything from a lightning bolt, to PoP, to Eidolon for a turn, to Progenitus, and the recursion/life gain from the SoLaS is amazing. Thinking of taking the Forge-Tender count back to three with the rise of red decks.

[Penguinizer]

I'm getting some serious Deja Vu here. I feel like I'm reliving a conversation that this thread had a year or two back. When BFT for Progenitus was a thing.