@EluThingol:
Thank you for your explanation of how the Glimpse triggers actually work. The judge at the table did not explain it as well as you did.
--Warren
I would also be very interested to hear how you are siding vs miracles with your current board. Thanks so much!Originally Posted by Shagstaman
there ya go pal =)
edit: people still use ICQ?? lol thats old school.
Team Info-Ninjas: Catchphrases so secret, I don't even know what they are!
HELLO.
didn't find much info about UG infect matchup.
2 decks in the top8 of my last tournament and one of them beated me on the top8.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14853
I think discard cards must be sided-in. But what about decays and pithing needle for nexus? After testing both options, i think it's better option to try to be faster than them and not siding in decays & pithing. Another option is trying to be fast on the play and defensive on the draw.
They are a fast deck, as fast as yours with disruption.
They play FoW, and in the link you posted the finalist will probably bring in submerges and cages.
Not bringing in disruption seems like a bad plan. Needle/blood moon take care pretty efficiently of nexus. your elves can take care of theirs (if they didn't side them out), and Decay of the agent.
Why not siding them in? Additionally, Decay takes care of cages.
I would have post SB discard, needle, decays, Ruric (reach vs nexus plus preventing pump spells makes him very good in the MU) and moons if played.
You can side out a lot of useless cards in the MU: Ooze, WRP, 1 hoof (ruric = target n°1, hoof is bad vs stifle), sage, 1 dryad (keep only one, the second is slow, especially vs submerge.deck) some visionary (slow), some symbiots. You easily have 8 side-out without harming much your speed (you never need to keep mana up for decay, discards and needle are 1-mana and do not need to be cast before turn 2-3).
For those that use Wren's Packmaster: What matchups do you use it for? And is it that good? Basically, is it worth it. I've been considering maindecking the 4th Natural Order and if I do that, the card to cut is Wren's Packmaster.
I'm also wondering this. Do you guys keep Natural Order against RUG, UWR, BUG? Basically delver.dec.... Is NO PROG a plan against these decks?
Depends on how soft counter happy they are and what sort of removal they have postboard. Some people like to keep in dazes and bring in more soft counters.
If you feel the need to ask a question like this, maybe try writing down common cards you expect your respective opponents to have and the answer will present itself. Lumping them together as "delver.dec" is like lumping together a strategy for "stoneforge.dec", it incorrectly diminishes the fundamental differences in structure of those decks.
Went 2-1-1 at the local legacy event.
Beat Burn and RU Cruise Delver, drew with miracles and lost to dredge.
Burn didn't have the Eidelon either game so I won the race.
Cruise Delver I just went off with Glimpse game 1 and game 2 he forced my glimpse only for me to natural order a couple turns later.
Miracles I tried the board out Natural Orders plan and wow is it grindy. Won the first after a couple terminus and lost second to entreat the angels after 3 terminuses and 3rd went to time. Didn't see any of my 2 needle or null rod in either side board game.
Dredge I just lost the race. Both games dredge had turn 1 LED. Game 1 double LED, breakthrough + go nuts. I thoughtseized game 2 and took careful study and he top decked LED and went nuts the next turn
@Apon
My board plan vs infect with main deck Ruric Thar.
+2 Pithing Needle, +3 Abrupt Decay, +4 Thoughtseize, +1 Natural Order
-3 Wirewood Symbiote, -1 Reclamation Sage, -1 Scavenging Ooze, -1 Wren's Run Packmaster, -1 Craterhoof Behemmoth, -3 Elvish Visionary
@AznSeal
Packmaster is good in fair match ups that go long you win by making lots of Deathtouch wolves
@Blastoderm
Really depends on the delver deck if you want Natural Order Progenitus
RUW has Swords to Plowshares so might be hard to get there with Ooze/Packmaster so Natural order progenitus is good.
RUG usually runs spell peirce and stifle to constrain your mana and stifle on hoof is bad news so you usually take out Natural order.
BUG really depends on the build if they on the spell peirce stifle plan or if
I generally like to play like a midrange deck after sideboard vs. delver, namely boarding in thoughtseizes and abrupt decays and cutting glimpses, and natural order into Progenitus is great if you go that route.
I beg to differ. Vs. RUG, Glimpse is best way to battle them whilst vs. BUG I prefer to go NO-Pro and have them overcommit on Toxic Deluge'ing Progenitus so we can finish them off with Glimpse/Hoof 2 turns later. Against UWR Delver I like to go for NO-Ruric Thar. That deck just has too many spotremoval and counters to commit fully to the Glimpse.
That being said, RUG can still be brutal. Sometimes they just go T1 Bolt your guy, T2 Forked Bolt both your guys and T3/4 Rough//Tumble whatever gas you had left, GG.
I do not understand why to go NO=> Ruric vs UWR, a deck which is playing stp and fold to proge.
I globally totally agree with Arianeira, No-pro vs UWR (4 NO + proge + 1 hoof), side out NO vs RUG (I keep 1 NO, 1 hoof, 1 WRP), BUG it depends of your and their SB.
BUG-delver has discard and lili, so keeping NO for later for behemoth is not that great. So either I keep the full pack (4 NO + pro + 1 hoof) or side out to keep only 1NO, 1 Ruric (castable), 1 hoof.
And you do not have to keep the same SB plan between G2 and 3: Glimpse plan is better OTP, NO plan OTD.
I always keep packmaster with these 3 kind of delver decks.
I haven't really tested a lot vs UR-delver with TC, but I guess I would like the full NO plan to run Ruric in the MU. Their plan is to play so many cheap spells, it's almost a stompy-storm... And they don't play the mana deial strategy and pierce, so NO is golden.
Why Ruric vs. UWR instead of Prog? They can (albeit painfully) STP or Batterskull+Bolt Ruric, while Progenitus basically puts them at have Council or TNN+Skull or lose.
vs. RUG I like going for a Glimpse+Decays+Packmaster oriented plan. Or, at least liked to. Haven't got to play vs. any Cruise Delver lists yet.
btw, do you guys ever get frustrated playing what's essentially a complicated version of Kavu.dec? Like, others get to play abusive stuff or combo just as fast except ahlols they have disruption. Meanwhile I'm casting Nettle Sentinel type of deal. That and the way we need NO for speed vs. combo, have a bad combo matchup yet NO/GSZ denies us the best combo hate cards available. How do you handle that?
Why Ruric Thar over Prog in that MU? Simple - if they do have the answer to Ruric, they take at least 6 damage and mayhaps give us 6 life in the proces.
Sure, Progenitus is harder to answer but answering it only costs them 1 card and that's it.
Getting rid of Ruric might be easier but is sure to hurt them whereas Progenitus might not even make them flinch and I don't like that when I invest 3 cards into something. If I invest that many cards to provoke an answer from my opponent, I want to be sure it hurts them as well as me. I don't like to be hit by a one-sided almost-Smallpox (if you look at the opportunity cost of the entire thing). Besides, it isn't as if we don't have Abrupt Decay or Reclamation Sage anymore when Ruric's on the board to protect it from such nonsense as Batterskull.
Look at it this way: Both win you the game if left unanswered, but Ruric is the only one of the two of which you know for sure he WILL actually hurt your opponent, even if he/she has the answer for it.
I totally disagree here. Progenitus is almost garanteed win against UWR-delver. What is their 1-card way of dealing with it? They play neither wrath effect nor Council judgement. They can win only if they have a crazy board.
While Ruric Thar can lose to almost everything in their deck: StP, nemesis, SFM, delver + bolt, BSKull, SoFaF, ...
The "should attack" is a real drawback here.
And otherwise, we are not really the aggro deck in this MU. Dealing them 6 damages for answering ruric may matter, but usually not that much.
Especially as if we are tutoring Ruric and not Hoof, it means we have no to little board (and not much in hand, otherwise as they have usually no sweeper, why not to play our creatures into NO-hoof?). So if they answer our NO-target, we almost lose, even if they lose 12 lifes in a BS+StP. I prefer to give them a 2-turns clock.
Ruric would be so good if he didn't have to attack every turn.
Exactly :)
In this case it will always stays against tarmo.deck and be golden.
Fixed it!
Or it's time to start playing Elvish Scout or Bramblesnap
@dte: If Council's Judgment isn't an issue, that changes things. In that case Progenitus indeed presents a threat they can't answer.
I'm more worried about Strixes really.
I'd rather run Earthcraft or Selesnya Evangel though. (Quick, hide before Lemnear sees this! :D)
Good luck running Earthcraft. Also, since we're on the subject... We can always go back to the Stasis Elves!-build and try to incorporate Opposition just to keep our precious Ruric out of harms way!
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