[Deck] Goblins

[Sandro95]

First is to place CotV you need 2 mana in the begining of the game it is almost 1 turn and there can be no cantrips in S&T's hand. In this way you lose 1 turn to nothing.
Secont is you counter your own discard spells with CotV if it comes first.
Third is if you place CotV befor you get any discard spell you didn't hit any wincondition spell like S&T and Sneak Attack. He can just draw it.
With blue splash no need to put in sb cards like ashen rider who works agains only 1 sort of deck(S&T).

I agree that the two mana on t2 is relevant cost, however, this deck has access to Aether Vial and Goblin Lackey, to help us keep up the pressure without spending mana.

The thing is though, Chalice counters your own Swan Songs too, and you can't use them (to great effect) before you play the CotV.

Also, if they don't have any win conditions in hand, you should be able to race them, especially as CotV stops their cantrips.

I'm still looking forward to trying the blue splash if I can get my hands on a couple of Volcanic Islands. It's just that I've been very impressed with both CotV and the discard spells.

[OlegtheSuper]

The thing is though, Chalice counters your own Swan Songs too, and you can't use them (to great effect) before you play the CotV.

No need cotv in blue sb

P.S. In blue sb you no need any "bad" cards that don't solve the problems but just delay them.

[Brentane]

Hi again guys. I read up on the primer and am thoroughly impressed. Before I go on, I am guilty of use to hating goblins since I started in New Phyrexia. It wasn't until this past month of looking at deck techs of Legacy Goblins and trying Goblin Rabblemaster was I actually starting to love them. I had always loved their flavour text, but it wasn't until this month did I see they had effects I actually was interested in. So I am a bit disappointed that I came to the party late, but I made it I guess I am saying .

I am interested in the Winstigator build (8 Lacky build) because it just seems fun dumping your hand fast and it does not use the lock-down land base I was looking for. I will ask though, I do have Aether Vials, but are they actually required for the deck? Seems a bit clunky to me. I took them out of my Merfolk deck because drawing a Vial after turn 2 was just terrible and tried the 8-manland build which was much better. Any pointers on this?

[Zombiesquisher]

I will ask though, I do have Aether Vials, but are they actually required for the deck? Seems a bit clunky to me. I took them out of my Merfolk deck because drawing a Vial after turn 2 was just terrible and tried the 8-manland build which was much better. Any pointers on this?

Yes, so many games are won off the powerful interaction between vial, matron and ringleader. Vial is always a 4 of in my opinion.

[Chatto]

I will ask though, I do have Aether Vials, but are they actually required for the deck? Seems a bit clunky to me. I took them out of my Merfolk deck because drawing a Vial after turn 2 was just terrible and tried the 8-manland build which was much better. Any pointers on this?

Yes, so many games are won off the powerful interaction between vial, matron and ringleader. Vial is always a 4 of in my opinion.

+1

Goblins is a greedy deck, Vial is a necessity

[Olaf Forkbeard]

...I will ask though, I do have Aether Vials, but are they actually required for the deck? Seems a bit clunky to me. I took them out of my Merfolk deck because drawing a Vial after turn 2 was just terrible and tried the 8-manland build which was much better. Any pointers on this?

Without Aether Vials I feel like the deck would have to run 25 lands, similar to a standard deck, to make sure it could land it's threats on time. In addition to that a large portion of the explosiveness of the deck is taken away as you can't "surprise" opponents with EOT threats. And third- you lean much harder on Cavern of Souls to resolve our relatively expensive threat pool.

Also several of the opening hands will look more clunky and probably be mulliganed as you don't have as many early game plays. Even if you run Chrome Mox you are mathematically less favored to have one of our good turn 1 plays. Compare 4 Goblin Lackey and Aether Vial as turn 1 moves to Goblin Lackey and Warren Instigator + Chrome Mox together. Now the Winstigator lists posted on this thread tend to run Aether Vial in addition to Chrome Mox increasing the chance of a keepable opener at the cost of possibly drawing "air." Just the other day I had 3 [Lackeys in play, hitting my opponent, and nothing to cheat in.

I mean, ya know, the thread is titled "Deckprimer Vial-Goblins."

[Zombiesquisher]

http://postimg.org/image/47oln7dz7/

Some guy posted this list to Facebook and wants feedback on it. I believe this to be a lost cause. I don't know what he is trying to do with this. Just thought someone might get a kick out of it.

[potatodavid]

http://postimg.org/image/47oln7dz7/

Some guy posted this list to Facebook and wants feedback on it. I believe this to be a lost cause. I don't know what he is trying to do with this. Just thought someone might get a kick out of it.

Stupider things have won games. Just give the standard advice, Needs more vials, caverns etc. It's not a lost cause... just a matter of budget.

[jrw1985]

I played MonoR again Wednesday night. It was a weird tournament with very mixed results. I definitely could have played better and tighter.

R1 Lands
G1 My opponent had a slow start and I was able to get in 20 damage before he could lock me out. Basic mountains and vials did work.
G2. I had 2 Vials at 2 and 3. He Played Merrit Lange combo to kill me but I had a Matron in hand to tutor up Stingscourger, then I swung back for exactsies.
1-0

R2 Lands
G1 I kept a slow hand but it had double Piledriver and I was on the play, so if he had a slow start it could be winnable. Well, he had an amazing start and I lost quickly.
G2 I mulled to 4 but managed to play Needle on Stage. He had the EE in hand. L
1-1

R3 UW Stoneblade
G1 I played poorly but ground it out in a long game.
G2 I sided in Pithing Needles and played it on Jitte but he had that stupid commander sorcery where you vote for a permanent to remove from the game. I could have played tighter this game too, and lost in extra turns.
1-1-1

R4 MonoB OmniTell
G1 I lost T2.
G2 I sided in Thorn of Amethyst and actually had 2 in hand. I was hoping to trap him into casting SnT so i could drop in Thorn #1 then follow up with Thorn #2 on my turn. Well, T2 I go and cast the Piledriver in my hand but drop a Thorn on the table instead. Woof. At this point he's obviously going to play around Thorn so i just should have jammed Thorn, but I was really concerened that he would just force it, so i played Gempalm instead. Well, he went off next turn and I died. I should have jammed Thorn T2 instead of Piledriver. Just should have done that and I would have had a chance I think.
1-2-1

Also saw three players playing UR Delver. I don't think that deck is a flash in the pan.

[potatodavid]

I played MonoR again Wednesday night. It was a weird tournament with very mixed results. I definitely could have played better and tighter.

R1 Lands
G1 My opponent had a slow start and I was able to get in 20 damage before he could lock me out. Basic mountains and vials did work.
G2. I had 2 Vials at 2 and 3. He Played Merrit Lange combo to kill me but I had a Matron in hand to tutor up Stingscourger, then I swung back for exactsies.
1-0

R2 Lands
G1 I kept a slow hand but it had double Piledriver and I was on the play, so if he had a slow start it could be winnable. Well, he had an amazing start and I lost quickly.
G2 I mulled to 4. L
1-1

R3 UW Stoneblade
G1 I played poorly but ground it out in a long game.
G2 I sided in Pithing Needles and played it on Needle but he had that stupid commander sorcery where you vote for a permanent to remove from the game. I could have played tighter this game too, and lost in extra turns.
1-1-1

R4 MonoB OmniTell
G1 I lost T2.
G2 I sided in Thorn of Amethyst and actually had 2 in hand. I was hoping to trap him into casting SnT so i could drop in Thorn #1 then follow up with Thorn #2 on my turn. Well, T2 I go and cast the Piledriver in my hand but drop a Thorn on the table instead. Woof. At this point he's obviously going to play around Thorn so i just should have jammed Thorn, but I was really concerened that he would just force it, so i played Gempalm instead. Well, he went off next turn and I died. I should have jammed Thorn T2 instead of Piledriver. Just should have done that and I would have had a chance I think.
1-2-1

Also saw three players playing UR Delver. I don't think that deck is a flash in the pan.

i'm going to have to make it over to the mead hall for some legacy one of these nights. Well done with the MONORED green men. I think we bring chalice back is UR is suddenly the hot piss of the format, hosing their 1 drops seems good.

[Brentane]

i'm going to have to make it over to the mead hall for some legacy one of these nights. Well done with the MONORED green men. I think we bring chalice back is UR is suddenly the hot piss of the format, hosing their 1 drops seems good.

I'm pretty sure UR Delver is only popular because it is so cheap to make. I mean I'm tempted to play it since I already have the staples for it, and the whole non-land card selection is at common and uncommon rarity.

[Brentane]

I proxied up a Winstigator list today with my play group because I though I'd try the deck out see how it played. Looked like a pile of junk to me. After playing about 20 games, I love it! I have not been this excited to get into an archetype for ages! This is the list I ran:

4 AEther Vial
3 Chrome Mox
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Lightning Crafter
3 Tarfire

19 Mountain


Out of 20 games, the Chrome Moxs were very disappointing. They only were beneficial in one game. Every game I would have preferred it to be a land, even in the beneficial game since it cost me an important card at the time. I was thinking I'd start with the Mono-red build and then start going into black for Grenzo, Dungeon Warden when I get a few more fetches. Maybe head into white as well for Ankle Shanker. How is this list by the way? Thinking of adding Skirk Prospector but I do not know what to take out.

[dissy]

I'm pretty sure UR Delver is only popular because it is so cheap to make. I mean I'm tempted to play it since I already have the staples for it, and the whole non-land card selection is at common and uncommon rarity.

this "cheap deck" is still a 1000 euro's not what i call cheap;)

[Brentane]

i proxied up a winstigator list today with my play group because i though i'd try the deck out see how it played. Looked like a pile of junk to me. After playing about 20 games, i love it! I have not been this excited to get into an archetype for ages! This is the list i ran:

4 aether vial
3 chrome mox
1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
1 stingscourger
1 goblin sharpshooter
4 goblin lackey
4 warren instigator
3 goblin piledriver
4 goblin matron
4 goblin ringleader
2 goblin warchief
4 goblin chieftain
1 krenko, mob boss
1 gempalm incinerator
1 lightning crafter
3 tarfire

19 mountain


out of 20 games, the chrome moxs were very disappointing. They only were beneficial in one game. Every game i would have preferred it to be a land, even in the beneficial game since it cost me an important card at the time. I was thinking i'd start with the mono-red build and then start going into black for grenzo, dungeon warden when i get a few more fetches. Maybe head into white as well for ankle shanker. How is this list by the way? Thinking of adding skirk prospector but i do not know what to take out.

bump

[1337erhosen]

Yeah, I also tested with the Chrome Mox list, and was similarly disappointed with it's performance.

So I'm running this list at my local GPT this weekend. Comments are welcome and a tournament report will follow:

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

4 Warren Weirding
4 Tarfire
4 Aether Vial

4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Badlands
2 Mountain
1 Swamp

Sideboard:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Perish
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Stingscourger


The deck takes a much more controlling approach, with the emphasis of your opponent never sticking any creatures. I much prefer the creature denial plan in many scenarios, as losing to Delver and Tarmogoyf just leave a bad taste in my mouth. I also think creature removal is a much better way to beat Equipment than a 4 mana shatter. Jitte does them no good if they can't stick a creature to suit it up with.
Playing so much removal in the main does mean the Miracles/Combo matchup suffers a bit pre-board, but post-board having Chalice and Siege-Gangs against Miracles has proven to be extremely successful in testing.

Rishadan Port has been and will continue to be a card that overperforms for me. As a long time DnT player I know the power of mana denial, and when they fetch basics to play around Wasteland you can cut them off of colors easily with Port.

The basic Swamp also seems like an odd choice, but in testing, having Wasteland-proof ways to cast the removal against RUG Delver has proven very important.

[GoboLord]

Yeah, I also tested with the Chrome Mox list, and was similarly disappointed with it's performance.

So I'm running this list at my local GPT this weekend. Comments are welcome and a tournament report will follow:

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

4 Warren Weirding
4 Tarfire
4 Aether Vial

4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Badlands
2 Mountain
1 Swamp

Sideboard:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Perish
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Stingscourger


The deck takes a much more controlling approach, with the emphasis of your opponent never sticking any creatures. I much prefer the creature denial plan in many scenarios, as losing to Delver and Tarmogoyf just leave a bad taste in my mouth. I also think creature removal is a much better way to beat Equipment than a 4 mana shatter. Jitte does them no good if they can't stick a creature to suit it up with.
Playing so much removal in the main does mean the Miracles/Combo matchup suffers a bit pre-board, but post-board having Chalice and Siege-Gangs against Miracles has proven to be extremely successful in testing.

Rishadan Port has been and will continue to be a card that overperforms for me. As a long time DnT player I know the power of mana denial, and when they fetch basics to play around Wasteland you can cut them off of colors easily with Port.

The basic Swamp also seems like an odd choice, but in testing, having Wasteland-proof ways to cast the removal against RUG Delver has proven very important.

Some points to consider:

* 5 fetchland targets for 7 fetchlands is risky, splitting them 6/6 seems better to me.
* your removal suite is not optimal to achieve your goal (not to lose to Tarmogoyf). 8 out of 9 spotremoval are "tribal". I'd suggest Lightning Bolts and/or Pyrokinesis and/or Dismember
* What are those 2 SGCs in your board supposed to be doing? If it's only for combo and Miracle Earwig Squad would be a way better choice.

Looking forward to read your tournament report.

-GL

[Raznaak]

Tournament on saturday, I want to go on a different approach and went with a kinda regular RB list minus cabal therapy, and I wanted to try the famed Settler and Kiki.

Lands (22):
2X Wasteland
8X Mountain
3X Badlands
2X Bloodstained Mire
2X Arid Mesa
1X Scalding Tarn
4X Caverns of Souls

Noncreatures (7)
4X Aether Vial
3X Tarfire

Green men (31)
4X Goblin Lackey
4X Goblin Matron
4X Goblin Ringleader
3X Gempalm Incinerator
3X Goblin Piledriver
3X Goblin Warchief
3X Mogg War Marshal
2X Goblin Chieftain
1X Stingscourger
1X Siege-Gang Commander
1X Goblin Settler
1X Tuktuk Scrapper
1X Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

Sideboard
3X Relic of Progenitus
2X Earwig Squad
2X Warren Weirding
2X Pyroblast
2X Pithing Needle
2X Engineered Plague (may be changed, I just want to test it at least once)
2X Chalice of the Void

My local meta is high on Miracles, Burn and BUx, some Painter-stone and SnT, with sometimes Merfolks, Reanimator, Dredge and Affinity, as well as strange decks now and then.
Any suggestions as to what to improve?

[hovercraft]

Has anyone tested Eidolon of the Great Revel in any goblin lists? Since you Vial/Lackey in a lot of dudes anyway

[Sandro95]

Yeah, I also tested with the Chrome Mox list, and was similarly disappointed with it's performance.

So I'm running this list at my local GPT this weekend. Comments are welcome and a tournament report will follow:

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

4 Warren Weirding
4 Tarfire
4 Aether Vial

4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Badlands
2 Mountain
1 Swamp

Sideboard:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Perish
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Stingscourger

I like the idea of taking a more controlling approach. However, I think you may be too light on two-drops. I would recommend playing three Mogg War Marshals, as they are excellent at blocking and buying you time to reach the lategame, where you will likely be favored. Having lots of lategame cards is great, but if you draw too many, some number of cards in your hand will likely be redundant. Mogg War Marshal also makes your sideboarded Cabal Therapies so much better, and it enables Gempalm Incinerator which, even if you're not playing the full set, is a sweet tutor target for when you want to deal with a threat and generate some card advantage. Goblin Chieftain also doesn't seem as good in a list with so few two-drops. He is still relevant with your lategame cards, but one of his major strengths is his synergy with our early drops.

Good luck in the GPT! I'll look forward to your tournament report. :)

[orcanmail]

I proxied up a Winstigator list today

Thinking of adding Skirk Prospector but I do not know what to take out.

Seriously take out the vials. No ports so less effective vials. This allows more explosive cards and more removal like tarfire