Miracle Control

[Blastoderm]

I won a GPT for NJ today. It was only 15 people and a 10$ entry, so prizes were pretty low, but 2 byes are something I value pretty high.

Matchups:
1-1-1 Maverick (Warden)
1-2 Helm Miracles
1-0-1 Rw painter with stoneforge mystic
2-0 Jund Zombardment with vengevine
Top:
2-1 Deathblade
2-0 Spanish Inquision
2-0 Death and Taxes (Zirath)

lol?? Please explain this immediately.

[TheArchitect]

lol?? Please explain this immediately.

I promise you, seeing that matchup in the top 8 was certainty not expected.

[btm10]

I promise you, seeing that matchup in the top 8 was certainty not expected.

No one expects it. That's the point.

[Dice_Box]

So RIP Helm came second today. Please tell me I am not the only one who saw this happening.

[lyracian]

So RIP Helm came second today. Please tell me I am not the only one who saw this happening.

OK; your not the only one.

For everyone else here is the list

Miracles by Darrel E Feltner; 2nd Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 26 October 2014

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (23)
6 Island
2 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
1 Karakas

Spells (35)
2 Helm of Obedience
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
2 Energy Field
3 Rest in Peace
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Council's Judgment
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Terminus

Sideboard
2 Meddling Mage
1 Energy Field
1 Rest in Peace
1 Counterspell
2 Flusterstorm
1 Misdirection
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Council's Judgment
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Supreme Verdict

Also while not Miracles there is an interesting Counterbalance-Helm deck that came 12th.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=75199

[exallium]

I played in a 40-player Frag for Cancer charity tournament yesterday and basically cursed the fact that I didn't play Miracles all day. I had lent the deck to someone (who promptly got DQ'd round 2 for cheating =( my deck feels dirty now), and played BUG delver instead. BIG MISTAKE.

That said, I did have a chance to grind some games vs the UR delver deck with my Legendary Miracles build, and I seemed to be winning most of the games. Counterbalance hoses that deck. Top+Balance and a well timed terminus is lights out.

Also, 3x Geist... that sideboard is amazing

[decan]

@exallium: what version of the miracles deck were you playing against UR delver? How did your SB'plan look?

@scgmin: Congrats to the winners. However i dont think one can gather too much out of the results. I dont think there were any (semi-)professionals at the tournament because of the eternal weekend.

[nwrobinson]

@exallium: what version of the miracles deck were you playing against UR delver? How did your SB'plan look?

unless he was using it as an adjective, im pretty sure legendrary miracles refers to the venser/ clique double karakas lists popularized by people like losset

@scgmin: Congrats to the winners. However i dont think one can gather too much out of the results. I dont think there were any (semi-)professionals at the tournament because of the eternal weekend.

this^^

[exallium]

@exallium: what version of the miracles deck were you playing against UR delver? How did your SB'plan look?

I'm playing a slightly altered version of the SCG Atlanta deck that Chi Hoi Yim ran:

//// Main deck

// 23 land
4 Tarn
4 Strand
2 Mesa
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Karakas

// 6 dudes
2 Snapcaster
3 Clique
1 Venser

// 3 jace
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor

// 28 spells
4 Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Swords
1 Pierce
1 Pyroblast
1 Counterspell
3 Counterbalance
1 Council's Judgement
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Force
3 Terminus

//// Sideboard

2 Pyroclasm
2 Flusterstorm
2 Blood Moon
1 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Terminus
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Pithing Needle
1 Wear // Tear
1 Venser

My plan vs. UR delver is probably something along the lines of:

+2 Pyroclasm
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Red Elemental Blast
+1 Wear // Tear

-4 Force of Will
-1 Council's Judgement
-1 Venser, Shaper Savant
-1 Counterspell

Basically, Upgrading our countermagic, adding a few cheap boardwipes, and keeping the looming Sulfuric Vortex in mind. The game plan here is to lock them out of the game, and eventually either get there with clique (because they can't get it off the board due to not being able to resolve a one-drop) or force through an entreat for 2 or 3 backing it up with flusterstorm or a blast effect. The deck literally can't answer a resolved entreat the angels. Most of the games I seemed to win involved Counterbalance resolving and cleaning up the board with terminus. They are very threat light so even 1:1'ing with it isn't terrible (though I'd rather use a swords/blast for such things)

[decan]

Oh yeah, i overread that legendary part of your post. How many votex' do they play? 1 or 2 i think. How are you going to deal with them? by cutting fows you only have a wear to get rid of it. I dont think 'balancing it out' isnt an option since u only play 3 and sometimes it can be difficult to find. I thought about the MU quite a bit and i was of the opinion that i could not cut the forces because of the vortex but im probably wrong

[exallium]

Oh yeah, i overread that legendary part of your post. How many votex' do they play? 1 or 2 i think. How are you going to deal with them? by cutting fows you only have a wear to get rid of it. I dont think 'balancing it out' isnt an option since u only play 3 and sometimes it can be difficult to find. I thought about the MU quite a bit and i was of the opinion that i could not cut the forces because of the vortex but im probably wrong

You could certainly be right about that. Force actually may be keepable due to vortex. They play 2 normally. With that in mind, I'd probably dial back on flusterstorm and keep force as a two of. This allows us to keep our removal and hard countermagic, while not opening ourselves up to a Vortex taking over the game. We didn't really end up testing the sideboards, so this is more of a knee-jerk than anything. I definitely don't like 4 forces, but do like having multiple answers.

I think if anything this matchup could prove to us that we need the 4th balance. I haven't had a hard time finding it over the course of a game, but maybe we just need it earlier. Currently, there's nothing I really want to cut for it. There are definitely cards I "dislike" but ultimately find necessary. Maybe I can find a spot in the board for it. A lot of the preboard games were determined by Counterbalance.

[decan]

I'd probably go the Lossett-route and cut the 4th Force for a 4th Balance if i was you. There are not too many MU where you want FoW.

UR delver is a Deck that should be an easy win with all Miracles versions but duke's i think. But at the same time it seems like it takes practice (like RUG). In my limited testing I didnt do exceptionally well, however thats because i havent figured out a certain sideboard strategy. But it seems like countertop is the key with quick creature removal. Does anybody else have tips for this MU?

[exallium]

I'd probably go the Lossett-route and cut the 4th Force for a 4th Balance if i was you. There are not too many MU where you want FoW.

UR delver is a Deck that should be an easy win with all Miracles versions but duke's i think. But at the same time it seems like it takes practice (like RUG). In my limited testing I didnt do exceptionally well, however thats because i havent figured out a certain sideboard strategy. But it seems like countertop is the key with quick creature removal. Does anybody else have tips for this MU?

That's an interesting line of thinking, I'd be willing to give it a shot. I still feel like you want 4 in the 75...

[twndomn]

I'd probably go the Lossett-route and cut the 4th Force for a 4th Balance if i was you. There are not too many MU where you want FoW.

UR delver is a Deck that should be an easy win with all Miracles versions but duke's i think. But at the same time it seems like it takes practice (like RUG). In my limited testing I didnt do exceptionally well, however thats because i havent figured out a certain sideboard strategy. But it seems like countertop is the key with quick creature removal. Does anybody else have tips for this MU?

The bottom line is simple: in legacy, people sometimes lose to Wasteland land in general, even if you run 6 basics. UR Delver, at least Bob Huang's version, runs zero Wasteland. Now, some versions still prefer to run Stifle, hence just focus on that early game. Then focus on fighting off Cruise mid game, everything else we have been doing against Delver/tempo decks still apply, including SB.

[Cipher]

UR delver is a Deck that should be an easy win with all Miracles versions but duke's i think. But at the same time it seems like it takes practice (like RUG). In my limited testing I didnt do exceptionally well, however thats because i havent figured out a certain sideboard strategy. But it seems like countertop is the key with quick creature removal. Does anybody else have tips for this MU?

I think this is all still transitional. These UR lists don't run many sideboard cards for Miracles, just Vortex and Pyroblast. I think by the time GP New Jersey hits we'll see what evolves. Based off the MODO dailies they just look like RUG Delver lists with no mana denial and therefore no game against us.

Finally got a reason to sideboard my Alpha Blue Blasts, so I'm happy.

[exallium]

I'm thinking I might cut the second Snapcaster for the Counterbalance, as seen in Lossett's list. I feel like cutting Force of Will to 3 leaves me too open to T1/T2 combo decks. Cutting the Snapcaster means having access to one less <enter target spell here> but I think that's ok if Counterbalance becomes a 4-of. Having so many Cruise decks running around make it seem like an ok idea, and I don't want to introduce even more 2drops into the deck.

I'm also not completely sold on the 3/1 terminus/verdict split in the maindeck, but I think the rise of Cruise also justifies this choice for the time being. I guess more testing will tell. A lot of time you can put yourself into a situation where soft countermagic just doesn't matter, and their (delver players) only out to your terminus is force of will.

[Cipher]

I'm thinking I might cut the second Snapcaster for the Counterbalance, as seen in Lossett's list. I feel like cutting Force of Will to 3 leaves me too open to T1/T2 combo decks. Cutting the Snapcaster means having access to one less <enter target spell here> but I think that's ok if Counterbalance becomes a 4-of. Having so many Cruise decks running around make it seem like an ok idea, and I don't want to introduce even more 2drops into the deck.

I'm also not completely sold on the 3/1 terminus/verdict split in the maindeck, but I think the rise of Cruise also justifies this choice for the time being. I guess more testing will tell. A lot of time you can put yourself into a situation where soft countermagic just doesn't matter, and their (delver players) only out to your terminus is force of will.

UR Delver has no Stifles or Wastelands (yet) and is soft to Red Blast. It should be much easier to interact on the stack with them. Red/Blue Blast is also another reason to run more Snapcaster, not less. I'm tempted to go up to 3. I used to sideboard a Snapcaster; might go back to doing that.

[exallium]

I'm pretty sure that three snapcasters are out of the question for the Legendary Build. Through testing last night I felt like I had too many two drops, when I cut the 4th force for a counterbalance. I guess what we need is the "best" way to approach the matchup. What I do like about Ein-style lists are that you get to attack from both angles, through Balance and Snapcastering blast effects. I do feel like then I loose out on a lot of the utility of Losset-Style lists but perhaps "less is more"... there's also the issue of not weakening the deck vs other matchups.

Sideboarding one is definitely an option, though I'd need to spend some time figuring out exactly what slot I want it in. I currently really like my sideboard.

[Cipher]

Yeah, I was on 2 Cliques maindeck for the longest, but now I'm just on 2 Snapcasters. I'm not running Einherjer or Lossett's list, really, just a "stock" list from 2012. Not a single Ponder in my list, and Cliques in the sideboard feels safer now that Liliana's MIA. I feel like the flash creatures were obviously great against Combo, but really you were relying on them performing vs. the omnipresent midrange decks to warrant maindeck slots. I'm not positive, but I think Clique is poor vs. this new Delver deck.

[exallium]

Yeah, I was on 2 Cliques maindeck for the longest, but now I'm just on 2 Snapcasters. I'm not running Einherjer or Lossett's list, really, just a "stock" list from 2012. Not a single Ponder in my list, and Cliques in the sideboard feels safer now that Liliana's MIA. I feel like the flash creatures were obviously great against Combo, but really you were relying on them performing vs. the omnipresent midrange decks to warrant maindeck slots. I'm not positive, but I think Clique is poor vs. this new Delver deck.

In my testing, clique is bad against UR cruise delver. What's more is that your 3 drop slot is almost worthless vs. them balance wise, as it really only hits Vortex out of the board. It helps shore up combo matchups (Boseiju is a dick of a card, and Venser / Clique is my favourite way to dreamcrush against it), and can ambush Jace and Liliana. Speaking of Liliana, you're right, there's a lot less of her floating around. I saw a Deathblade deck that only had her as a one-of main, and BUG Delver doesn't seem to bother with her anymore. Shardless is almost not a deck anymore, IMO, as well.

I've got a bunch of Miracles lists built online, might try a 3-snap list tomorrow evening (Ovino winner? With some tweaks to the board =P) and see how it feels. Hopefully I find a UR delver player or two to test against.

EDIT: I've got a list in mind that I want to test when I get a chance.... not ready to post it because for all i know it's an absolute pile.