One strategy against Counterbalance is to play 3-4 Brain Freezes. You make land drops, then start going off, responding to top reordering by casting spells with different CMC, and using Brain Freeze to clear the top of his library and resolve your spells...Originally Posted by JDK
Or just get 5-6 Storm then double brain freeze (Storm copies do not trigger CB) :)
Getting to that much storm and casting two BFs against a CB is probably not that easy to pull off. ;)
Anyway, that's just a way you COULD go IF the stars line up right and you have enough space in your build for that many Brain Freezes (which would increase your fizzle rate). It's not a definite solution and doesn't solve the problem in general.
So what are the thoughts on playing 3 Force of Will instead of 4? Flusterstorm is something we can flashback with Snapcaster Mage, and Remand nets us a card. Force makes us pitch a card, which is then unusable for Snapcaster Mage and Dig Through Time. It's still amazing because it costs no mana and counters most things, but there might be enough downsides to warrant only 3.
I like having Snapcaster Mage, but not relying on the Snap/Snapcaster Mage engine, which activates their removal.
Engine:
4 High Tide
4 Reset
2 Turnabout
Dig/Draw:
4 Brainstorm
3 Dig Through Time
4 Impulse
4 Meditate
4 Opt
Protection:
2 Flusterstorm
3 Force of Will
2 Remand
1 Repeal
Utility:
2 Snapcaster Mage
Win Condition:
1 Brain Freeze
2 Cunning Wish
Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
10 Island
4 Polluted Delta
Sideboard:
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Brain Freeze
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Dig Through Time
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Pact of Negation
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Repeal
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Swan Song
1 Turnabout
1 Twincast
L2 Judge
Not as difficult as you'd think. Assuming it's not followed up with a threat that will end the game shortly (like RUG used to do way back in the day), you will have many turns to draw your card, play your land, and let your hand develop into something you can win with. Brain Freezing the top of the library with active Counterbalance is one of the primary ways you beat that deck, after first running the opponent out of mana. Counterbalance + Sensei's Divining Top in and of itself is not that bad. It's only when it's backed up with pressure that you are in a terrible position. Multiple Brain Freezes is a great way to beat control decks in general, since it's not too difficult to get them into a position where on the turn you go off, you cast 4-5 spells and your opponent counters most of them, then you double Brain Freeze them and they just lose. There just hasn't been a legitimate counterspell-based control deck in the format in a very, very long time.
How much mana do you need to do this? You can bet your ass High Tide is not going to resolve against CB/Top. Resets will most likely meet a counter or CB trigger. Having enough lands left to get to 4 mana for the BFs is kinda....a far stretch.
Idk, it's far easier to go EOT Wipe Away and try to go off when they try to replay it.
In a game where you get to make 8 or 9 (or more) land drops, it's not difficult to get enough Islands on the table that you can pull off multiple Brain Freezes. Miracles is not known for winning quickly.
Neat trick:
You Wish for a Wipe Away. They know you have it so they keep a CMC3 thing on top almost all of the time. This sounds bad, but if you get 2x High Tide and 2x Untap, you can actually go for it and when they try to stop you, Wipe Away still. You of course do this in their end step, so you get to untap and wreck them on your second try in response to the replay of Counterbalance.
There's so many things you can do with an all instant deck, it's just insane. Which in return makes this one of the hardest decks to play well.
Great trick! Only requires 5 cards and them not being able to spin top a few times!
@benthetenor
8 or 9 (or more)? That's pretty optimistic. This requires you to not miss land drops and sculpt your hand. And that your opponent doesn't do much besides durdling. They are more likely to hit their lands. They are likely to get counters on their own, in addition to CB. They can spin top multiple times. Is it possible? Sure, but it's not as likely as you make it sound.
Last edited by JDK; 10-31-2014 at 07:36 AM.
I came back to the deck when I realized Dig Through Time was the real deal. I made two significant changes to my list.
Dig Through Time over Remand:
I used to almost always side Remand out so to make room for Dig through time I cut them from the deck entierly. Going off and fizzle was one of the main reasons why I disliked Solidarity compared to Spiral Tide and the additional gas from Dig through Time is very helpful against that. I've played about 40 matches on MODO with Dig through time and it's been great. It lowers the fizzle-rate from something like 30% to 10% when going off and it also made the deck much more resilient to discard. 4 Flusterstorm and 4 Force of will seems enough and I've only missed Remand in already ok matchups (slower decks).
Thought Scour over Opt:
with the full playset of Dig Through Time and the full playset of Snapcaster Mage I decided to try Thought Scour over Opt. I was a bit sceptical at first, milling my goodies, but it's actually the opposite thanks to Snapcaster Mage. It's great with Brainstorm too. Acting like Dark ritual + draw a card is kind of insane if you think about it.
So, here is the list I play now:
CREATURES (4)
4 Snapcaster Mage
INSTANTS (38)
4 Dig Through Time
4 Brainstorm
4 High Tide
4 Flusterstorm
4 Impulse
4 Reset
3 Meditate
3 Cunning Wish
4 Thought Scour
4 Force of Will
LANDS (18)
10 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
SIDEBOARD (15)
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Blue Sun’s Zenith
1 Turnabout
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Swan Song
1 Snap
1 Meditate
1 Brain Freeze
3 Mystic Remora
1 Echoing Truth
1 Polymorphist’s Jest
1 Ravenous Trap
Some things about my Maindeck:
1)I don't really like Cunning Wish but I tested the alternative of running a win con main and it was even worse. Cunning wish for Meditate or Turnabout is atleast not terrible but drawing Brain Freeze and Blue Sun's Zenith feels much like it. You want the kill in your deck (or a wish lenght away), not in your hand. Having acces to bounce without playing any is ok too I guess. I tried a few games with the above list going +1 meditate +1 flash of insight +1 brain freeze -3 Cunning wish for a faster kill but it was actually slower as it was harder to set up. Drawing Brain Freeze or Blue sun's zenith is terrible most of the time. It also made me "weak" to Emrakul. Not beeing able to kill them the same turn as I Brain Freeze was a big deal also. My conclusion is that I normally don't generate enough mana for a straight up Blue Sun's kill so I have to rely on Brain Freeze but then I also want a card that forces my opponent to draw (unless he put a Treasure Cruise on the stack or something...). Words of Wisdom came to mind which is also a fine card outside of comboing. It doesn't help against Emrakul though and I don't want to be just dead to Sneak&Show G1.
2) Im going to try 3+1 High Tide between the main and the sideboard. This would make Cunning Wish a bit better but the deck slower as a whole. How do you guys like the split?
3) I do not miss Turnabout maindeck at all. 4 Reset is not a lot but it's plenty with the full playset of Snapcaster Mage and Dig Through Time. When I was playing Spiral Tide I usually sided out most Candelabras anyway and I strongly advice everyone to get rid of the additional untap effects.
Some things about my Sideboard:
1) I really like Mystic Remora in Spiral Tide but I haven't played enough games with Solidarity to know if it's good enough for the deck. Not beeing an instant is annoying. Maybe Im better of with more Swan Song, perhaps?
2) Polymorphist's Jest is very good. It's still pretty rare for your opponent to have both Ethersworn Canonist and Thalia in play but it happens. What I found much more common is a hatebear +Deathrite Shaman or Scavenging Ooze. The Jest stops that. Solidarity is actually super-weak to graveyard hate (unlike Spiral tide where Leyline of the Void does actual nothing).
3) I only really use half my sideboard so if you have some spicy transformational tech I gladly give it a try. Maybe we can splash something just in the sideboard? Vedalken Shackles and Faeries? :o
Your list is, for sure.Solidarity is actually super-weak to graveyard hate (unlike Spiral tide where Leyline of the Void does actual nothing).
Read Wipe Away again. Once they've changed for the other Spells, cast Wipe Away, and their combo is broken, leaving you with a CB off the board, and you almost free to continue comboing out.
Except DTT, the deck has nothing new to offer. That's the only card which may bring Solidarity outside of the "fringe decks" section. Of course any new version will be dependant on its graveyard.
Wow, I feel like T1 Delver reads "GG" with your list.
You're still talking like you've never actually done it, and just assuming it's unlikely. I can assure you, it's not overly difficult, and it happens a lot against Miracles. Miracles is exceptional at doing nothing if they're not under pressure, and so by the time they try to stop you, it will be far too late. And when your plan is "cast a bunch of spells and then finish with multiple Brain Freeze", you literally want them to sculpt a hand full of counterspells because you want them to counter every spell you play.
This is not some fringe strategy made up by me on the spot, it's a very strong plan against a slow counterspell-based deck that has been around since the deck was born. It's the reason that this deck has a strong control matchup. Having Counterbalance in their deck is no different than having any other counterspell, other than that it doesn't add to the storm count, but is weak to Brain Freeze.
@Mackan - in my experience, Thought Scour is pretty much strictly worse than just having more Brain Freezes. With multiple Brain Freezes, you can win with a smaller chain or over multiple turns with small Freezes, and it doesn't increase your reliance on the graveyard. Thought Scour is only good when your graveyard isn't under duress, and when you need to fill the graveyard (if you have Snapcaster Mages or a Dig Through Time in hand), Brain Freeze is much more efficient at doing so than Thought Scour ever can be, and it's practically uncounterable.
@Everyone who wants to cut Brain Freeze from the main deck - I understand this impulse, but I can assure you that, in this deck, Brain Freeze is the least-dead win condition in any storm combo deck that's ever existed. The best use for it is killing your opponent. The second best use is using it on yourself to ensure you don't fizzle mid-combo, when you have a Snapcaster Mage or a Dig Through Time in hand. Being all instants, there's no need to let all of the storm copies resolve. You interrupt the stack as soon as you've milled what you need, then you continue to combo off with the storm copies sitting there. You then use Brainstorm and the storm copies sitting there to further increase the quality of your hand. If you were playing with Visions of Beyond, you make that happen. So, so many options. By moving Brain Freeze to the sideboard, you limit the options you have for yourself and you increase the probability that you will fizzle.
I know what the card does. The question is, if you understand, that the need for that many specific cards is making this pretty hard. Again, Miracles isn't just going to sit there after putting the lock into play and not picking up additional counterspells.
So? His list fully depends on the GY with 4 DTT and 4 Snapcaster. In addition he uses Thought Scour, which makes Extraction better. Way too dependent and conditional for my taste.
Wipe Away laughs at counterspells. This is why it's the best removal spell in this deck.
You want other spells to resolve, don't you?
Piloted Solidarity to a Top4 finish in my local Legacy Open:
//Lands
2 Flooded Strand
11 Island
2 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
//Spells
1 Brain Freeze
4 Brainstorm
1 Cunning Wish
1 Dig Through Time
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
4 High Tide
4 Impulse
4 Meditate
2 Opt
2 Peek
2 Repeal
4 Reset
2 Snap
2 Turnabout
//Creatures
3 Snapcaster Mage
//Sideboard
1 Snap
2 Wipe Away
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Pact of Negation
1 Echoing Truth
2 Flusterstorm
1 Turnabout
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Swan Song
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Dig Through Time
R1: vs. Punishing BURG (?) 2-0
R2: vs. Punishing Control (UWR) 1-1-1 - Games 2 & 3 he has more counters than I probably drew in the whole tournament. FoWs, Pyroblasts, Counterspells, Izzet Charms, Swan Songs, Canonist, Flusterstorm...
R3: vs. UR Delver 0-2 - I concede because I am already qualified for the invitational and he isn't (wasn't at that point).
R4: vs. Enchantress 2-0 - Game 1 he thinks Emrakul saves him. Game 2 he just tried to stick two Solitary Confinements and thinks again to be save with Emrakul.
R5: vs. Deathblade 2-0
Top4: vs. UR Delver - Game 1 I get stuck at two lands. Game 2 I try to go off with facing lethal, but he has Pyroblast, Force of Will, Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm and I couldn't play around the latter.
Initially I wanted to play two Dig Through Times MD and just 2 Snapcaster Mages, but I didn't have access to the third DTT (wanted one in the SB). Anyway, Snapcaster Mage again proved to be of much value and 3 will stay in my maindeck for now. The Swan Songs should probably be Pacts. I cut Rebuild/Recall due to a lack of MUD & Co, since my meta is somewhat predictable.
Last edited by JDK; 11-03-2014 at 10:30 AM.
Couple questions for how you feel about your deck JDK:
Do you still want a second Dig Through Time in the main deck, even with 3 Snapcaster Mages?
How much do you like having Snap? How often do you use it on your Snapcaster Mage?
How much do you like having just 1 Cunning Wish? Is Wishing for something you don't often need to do?
L2 Judge
Yeah, I still want the second Dig Through Time and would probably cut a Turnabout for testing. Not sure though.Couple questions for how you feel about your deck JDK:
Do you still want a second Dig Through Time in the main deck, even with 3 Snapcaster Mages?
How much do you like having Snap? How often do you use it on your Snapcaster Mage?
How much do you like having just 1 Cunning Wish? Is Wishing for something you don't often need to do?
I like Snap a lot and primarily use it on my Snapcaster Mages to jump up Storm and get a Meditate/Reset etc flashed back.
I don't think Cunning Wish is something I need to use pre-combo that often. It's also the first thing I've cut to make some changes for the current UR Delver meta (which is still a horrible matchup, which is why I want more Pacts). I wouldn't go higher than two anymore and I don't even think more than one is needed in my build. There was only one time where I was about to exile my only Brain Freeze in the 60 and used Wish previously to fetch a Pact, which would have left me without a way to actually win (which doesn't mean you should stop comboing if you realize it too late, since some opponents scoop mid-combo).
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