Daretti Goblin Welder (Da-Welder)

[GenghisTom]

Memnarch is another card that can steal a game if welded in at the right time, especially if chalice is out at 1.
Another reason to play Dack Fayden and Liquimetal Coating

[MoT_Pestilence]

I have played geddon stax for a few years and never really tried welder because i stopped playing the deck before cavern of souls came out. I'm all for this concept but I'm not sure it'll work. I feel like Etutor is awkward just because of COTV. Daretti may allow you get rid of e tutor for something like batter skull. Batter skull in my opinion is better than wurmcoil just because of mana cost and that they are so comparable. they serves similar purpose, blocking, life gain, 2 permanents for 1 card, plays well with welder.

Questions

was 0 tabernacle a conscious decision or do you not own any?
I always played with 4 ghostly prison, why are you only playing with 3 ensnaring bridges? they serve similar purposes?
How is e tutor working out for you in regards to cotv?
Now that cavern is available does it really help with welder or is it awkward?
possessed portal may be unnecessary but with all the lock going on and welder / daretti its a hard lock to a stalled board state in your favor. have you considered it?
with welder tangle wire has a reasonably good interaction, have you tried tangle wire?

Suggestions

-3 enlightened tutors
-1 armageddon
+2 batterskull
+1 ensnaring bridge
+1 bottled cloister.


I am looking forward to hearing back about this because I have beat plateau's i've been dying to use!

Like I said, I've played the deck every week for 2 months, and it's worked really well for me (8 week streak of top 4's). The E-tutor COTV nonbo doesn't really happen as often as you'd think, and maybe with Daretti, it wouldn't be necessary to run, or would be better as it could be discarded to his +. As for Batterskull, I personally like Wurmcoil over it b/c of the interaction with welder. Not saying Batterskull is bad, it makes a 2nd permanent to sac to smokestack and can be bounced, but Wurmcoil is my personal favorite. To each his own though.

Answers:
I don't own any Tabernacle, but it would be included as a spell most likely if I owned one.

I chose Ensnaring Bridge over ghostly prison because it can be brought back with welder, and combos really wellwith Bottled Cloister. I have my prisons in the board for creature match-ups

As above, E-tutor is not a problem under COTV as much as I thought it would be before testing. It's just sequencing, and a lot of the time, the chalice dies or is sac'd to Smokestack when you have a trinisphere lock-down.

Cavern is amazing with welder. Don't know why it wouldn't be. Chalice at 1 protecting from StP, Cavern makes him un-counterable, and then any artifact lock piece countered is just brought back. You don't really fear FoW anymore...or at least near as much.

The cost on possessed portal really is what drew me away from it, and it seems dead until you're already in a board winning position.

Tangle Wire was in the original deck list, but I couldn't find room for it anymore when I tried putting other things in. I really like the card and if you can find room for it, by all means add it. It's really strong.

Maybe do
-3 E-tutor
+ 1 Ensnaring Bridge
+ 1 Bottled Cloister
+ 1 whatever else
I would not suggest dropping Armageddon, I never play a game where I don't want it. It is the game winning card against any Miracles/control deck, and devastates others.

[apple713]

Maybe do
-3 E-tutor
+ 1 Ensnaring Bridge
+ 1 Bottled Cloister
+ 1 whatever else
I would not suggest dropping Armageddon, I never play a game where I don't want it. It is the game winning card against any Miracles/control deck, and devastates others.

In that "whatever else" I feel like 1 threat is needed, of the artifact variety. wurmcoil engine or whatever, but if not than maybe spine of ish sah. bruiser pointed out a very nice interaction with welder and daretti on a previous page.

the land situation looks pretty tight. What would you cut for tabernacle?

armageddon is great however, when i asses how many of each card i want in a deck i consider the following (- frequency - explanation )

4x - more than one a game - if you always want this card as soon as possible and might run more if rules allowed it
3x - only one a game - if you want it every game but multiples would be excessive
2x - once a match - if the card is worthy of inclusion but not necessary and bad in multiples, or it is high on the cmc
1x - once every couple matches - OR if you can tutor it

my methodology also helped me realize trinisphere is really a 3 of.

[MoT_Pestilence]

In that "whatever else" I feel like 1 threat is needed, of the artifact variety. wurmcoil engine or whatever, but if not than maybe spine of ish sah. bruiser pointed out a very nice interaction with welder and daretti on a previous page.

Spine is a nice card, but I wouldn't run it as the 1-of threat. That should be something that ends the game.

the land situation looks pretty tight. What would you cut for tabernacle?

You shouldn't count tabernacle as a land. It doesn't make mana, so it should take a spell slot, otherwise you will start to see mana issues.

armageddon is great however, when i asses how many of each card i want in a deck i consider the following (- frequency - explanation )

4x - more than one a game - if you always want this card as soon as possible and might run more if rules allowed it
3x - only one a game - if you want it every game but multiples would be excessive
2x - once a match - if the card is worthy of inclusion but not necessary and bad in multiples, or it is high on the cmc
1x - once every couple matches - OR if you can tutor it

my methodology also helped me realize trinisphere is really a 3 of.

I really like Armageddon. Maybe that's just me though. I like seeing 2 of them a game.


Some more red mana sources might be necessary. It hasn't been a problem b/c Cavern counts as a red source for Welder, but we don't get that with Daretti.

[apple713]

I've added some of the list mentioned in this thread to the OP and will continue to edit as appropriate.

Spine is a nice card, but I wouldn't run it as the 1-of threat. That should be something that ends the game.
You shouldn't count tabernacle as a land. It doesn't make mana, so it should take a spell slot, otherwise you will start to see mana issues.
I really like Armageddon. Maybe that's just me though. I like seeing 2 of them a game.
Some more red mana sources might be necessary. It hasn't been a problem b/c Cavern counts as a red source for Welder, but we don't get that with Daretti.

maybe spine in board. do you have a sideboard built?

suggest a card out for tabernacle? do you really need tabernacle?

[MoT_Pestilence]

I've added some of the list mentioned in this thread to the OP and will continue to edit as appropriate.




maybe spine in board. do you have a sideboard built?

suggest a card out for tabernacle? do you really need tabernacle?

The sideboard and whether or not to run tabernacle is all a Meta call imo. Where I play it's mostly Miracles and other control decks, so creatures aren't a huge problem. I can show you my board atm, but again, it's build to combat other control decks. We also have 1-2 burn players, and a dredge guy.

2 ghostly prision
3 oblivion ring
3 leyline of sanctity
1 Elspeth
1 COP red
2 supression field
1 Tormods Crypt
2 Humility

Other possible cards
Hannah's Custody
4th Trinisphere
Phyrexian Revoker (for Jace and Lilliana)
Wrath of God
Mindslaver
Jester's Cap
Glow Rider/ Thalia
Ethersworn Cannonist
Thorn of Amethyst
Magus of the Tabernacle
Karmic Justice
Defense Grid
Sphere of Resistence

[bruizar]

Another direction. Counterbalance Control Slaver. The mana base will be typically fetch heavy with some artifact lands.

Planeswalkers 6
3 Daretti, Scrap Savant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts 7
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Myr Battlesphere / Sundering Titan / Mindslaver / Possessed Portal / Contagion Engine / Inkwell Leviathan / Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Counters 10
3 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce

Draw 13
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Strategic Planning
4 Treasure Cruise

Removal 4
1 Fire // Ice
3 Lightning Bolt


Some things to note:
*Sundering Titan and Possessed Portal counter Treasure Cruise under Counterbalance
*Strategic Planning can be used to dig under Possessed Portal and fills the graveyard
*Fire // Ice over Forked Bolt because it can be pitched to FoW when unnecessary

[LMental]

Ok, here's my build of "Mayor Daretti." As a big Wire fan, I just had to.

Lands:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Academy Ruins
2 Mishra's Factory

Creatures:
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Phyrexian Metamorph

Artifacts:
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Tangle Wire
3 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mindslaver

Planeswalkers:
3 Daretti, Scrap Savant
2 Dack Fayden
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Other:
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Intuition
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Transmute Artifact


Sideboard:
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Blood Moon
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Trinisphere
1 Tangle Wire
1 Daretti
1 Smokestack
1 Liquimetal Coating



==========

The numbers may be weird, and they're untested, but I think they actually make some sense.

3 Daretti/1 Jace: Most of the time you'd rather have Daretti, but Jace is the stronger card. So we can have a bit of each. In MUs where you want to be more aggressive and all-in on the graveyard plan, you can switch the Jace for Daretti #4 from the board.

3 TFK/1 Intution/2 Dack/1 Treasure Cruise/1 Transmute Artifact: TFK is obviously a powerhouse in this deck. It requires the least setting up of any of the before-mentioned cards in this deck, and also is the only Daretti enabler that isn't card disadvantage. However, with an active Daretti out, sometimes you'd rather have the precision that Intuition & TA offer; I only run one TA because of the kind of annoying double U in its manacost. Treasure Cruise piggybacks nicely on Dack, Daretti, and TFK, where your graveyard gets really full. You can board in another for grindier matchups.

2 Revoker maindeck, 2 in the board: Revoker is good, but it's very vulnerable. I don't want to go all-in on it, but in MUs where you really want that Pithing effect, you can bring in 2 more.

2 Wurmcoil, 1 Mindslaver: your win-cons. I think they're pretty self-explanatory; I don't want to play more because you're only going to be casting them once the game is pretty under control, or cheating them into play early. Otherwise, they'd clog up the hand.

4 Chrome Mox: I'm not sure this deck can support 4 Chrome Moxes. Perhaps a Mox Daimond/Chrome Mox split would be advisable.

I think this build looks interesting and would be up to test it. Let me know what you all think.

[bruizar]

Ok, here's my build of "Mayor Daretti." As a big Wire fan, I just had to.

I think you can shave off a few cards

*What is the purpose of Dack Fayden? He looks like an expensive loot. I'd place him in the sideboard against artifact mirror matches

*I don't think Intuition is a good card. You'll always end up with your best card in hand (Mindslaver will not go to the graveyard when it is relevant). It's the best non-TFK card I guess, but

*What are you transmuting away with Transmute Artifact, and what do you plan on getting with it? Sacking an artifact for TA only to Entomb an other artifact sounds inefficient. I don't think you can reliably get to 3UU, or even 4UU under Trinisphere and Tangle Wires, which is necessary to get your bombs into play. Otherwise, it's just a bad Entomb.

*I like the Chrome Moxen actually. They enable turn 2 walkers and turn 1 TFK. Also, you can cast a chrome mox without imprinting anything on it, just so you can sack it immediately for Daretti

*Dig Through Time sounds a little better in your list, since you can cast it before you have to tap down for your own Tangle Wire, and you probably want to sculpt a combo hand anyway.

[CheeseGnome]

I'm not really sure about Liquimetal Coating, but if you're gonna run it then what about Karn, Silver Golem as a beater/blocker and to blow up lands for ?
He could also be used to swing with Daretti, Scrap Savant/Dack Fayden(when combined with Liquimetal Coating) and Smokestack/Tangle wire or whatever you end up running.

[LMental]

I think you can shave off a few cards

*What is the purpose of Dack Fayden? He looks like an expensive loot. I'd place him in the sideboard against artifact mirror matches

*I don't think Intuition is a good card. You'll always end up with your best card in hand (Mindslaver will not go to the graveyard when it is relevant). It's the best non-TFK card I guess, but

*What are you transmuting away with Transmute Artifact, and what do you plan on getting with it? Sacking an artifact for TA only to Entomb an other artifact sounds inefficient. I don't think you can reliably get to 3UU, or even 4UU under Trinisphere and Tangle Wires, which is necessary to get your bombs into play. Otherwise, it's just a bad Entomb.

*I like the Chrome Moxen actually. They enable turn 2 walkers and turn 1 TFK. Also, you can cast a chrome mox without imprinting anything on it, just so you can sack it immediately for Daretti

*Dig Through Time sounds a little better in your list, since you can cast it before you have to tap down for your own Tangle Wire, and you probably want to sculpt a combo hand anyway.

Good points, thanks. I honestly was contemplating Dack as mostly an expensive loot, so he might be better replaced by +1 TFK and something else. Loot can't be played due to Chalice.

I want to test Intuition, but I see what you mean too. I like the card for its flexibility: in grindy MUs, you can grab something like Academy Ruins/Crucible/Transmute Artifact and set up Waste-lock, whereas you could alternatively grab Daretti as necessary, or a win-con. My thinking behind TA is much the same: sometimes it is just an expensive Entomb, but hopefully in those cases it wins you the game because you have an active Daretti, so it's fine that it's inefficient. In other cases, you can switch out a dead Tangle Wire or an unnecessary Trinisphere for something more useful.

Dig Through Time could be good here, but I still don't think much of double blue, at least without testing. I don't envision this build as particularly combo-centric, though it can combo; it's mostly a prison deck with a combo finish.

Thanks!

[bruizar]

Also, if you're not sure what Chrome Mox plays like in a blue deck, just remember how the Sea Stompy manabase used to work. (UB Tezz is not a good example because you don't run signets and talismans). Though I don't necessarily recommend it, you could even get really cute by playing both Force of Will and one or two Misthollow Griffin's.

[LMental]

Also, if you're not sure what Chrome Mox plays like in a blue deck, just remember how the Sea Stompy manabase used to work. (UB Tezz is not a good example because you don't run signets and talismans)

Hey, I do basically remember how it plays; I'm just not sure I have enough colored things (just 12) to support running 4 (I'm thinking a 3/1 split could work). You make a good point about dead moxen being useful, though. And I never did like Mox Diamond at all.

I'm not really sure about liquimetal coating, but if you're gonna run it then what about Karn, Silver Golem as a beater/blocker and to blow up lands for ?
He could also be used to swing with Daretti/Dack(when combined with liquimetal coating) and smokestack/tanglewire or whatever you end up running.

Karn is nice, but I'm not sure there's space; Liquimetal coating would probably go if Dack goes from the maindeck anyways. Currently, I'm thinking that +1 TfK, +1 Daretti could serve as a Dack replacement for the main. Liquimetal and Smokestack could leave the SB and become 2 Dack, mostly to combat Batterskull.

[bruizar]

Look what I found


Probably way too slow and inefficient, but you only use it when you can cheat a bomb into play with it.

[bruizar]

More on Control Slaver. As far as I'm concerned, these cards are core:

Izzet Charm
Thirst for Knowledge
Daretti, Scrap Savant


Control Slaver
[20] Land
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Academy Ruins
1 Island

[12] Artifacts
2 Izzet Signet
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives

[06] Planeswalkers
3 Daretti, Scrap Savant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

[04] Artifacts
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
1 Mindslaver

[09] Counters
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Izzet Charm

[08] Draw
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge

[03] Removal
2 Sudden Shock
1 Volcanic Fallout

Sideboard
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Krosan Grip
1 Sudden Shock
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Dack Fayden
1 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan / 1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Possessed Portal / Platinum Angel
1 Null Rod
1 Lantern of Insight


Ideal Turn 1 plays:
Land, Chrome Mox, Chalice of the Void on
Sol land, Chalice of the Void on
Sol land, Chrome Mox, Thirst for Knowledge
Sol land, Izzet Signet

Ideal Turn 2 plays:
Jace, the Mindsculptor
Daretti, Scrap Savant

Single Card Discussion:
Force of Will
Mainly helps resolve planeswalkers

Spell Pierce
Should help you resolve planeswalkers and hold of excessive amounts of lightning bolts. They're dead with Chalice of the Void on one in play, but in that case most of their counters are dead too.

Thirst for Knowledge
It's no Treasure Cruise but it still draws 3 and sets you up for some robot welding.

Brainstorm
Yes, it's good. Especially here, since you may need to shuffle away robots.

Izzet Charm
Discards your bombs
Kills Delver of Secrets, Young Pyromancer, Deathrite Shaman & Monastery Swiftspear (sometimes)
Doubles as a counterspell in the non-aggro matches

Sudden Shock & Volcanic Fallout
The uncounterable removal spells are there to make sure you live through the initial barrage of attacks and bolts from UR Delver decks. Volcanic Fallout addresses the tokens from Young Pyromancer. If you're playing against miracles, you can simply brainstorm or discard them to Thirst for Knowledge, Daretti or Izzet Charm.

[honz]

Daretti needs 2 things to be good: cheap artifacts to sac, and powerful artifacts to cheat into play. Now there is already a very strong card that wants those same 2 things, named kuldotha forgemaster, and there is even a deck built around him, named MUD. Seeing as daretti is just a better goblin welder, the most logical plan would be to put him into welder MUD. This is what I plan on running (note this is 62 cards, so something will need to get cut)


3 Daretti
4 Kuldotha forgemaster
4 Lodestone golem
4 Metalworker
4 Goblin welder
1 Godo, bandit warlord

1 Staff of domination
1 Batterskull
1 Wurmcoil engine
1 Myr battlesphere
1 Sundering titan
1 Blightsteel colossus
1 Platinum emperion
1 Spine of ish sah

4 Chalice of the void
3 Grim monolith
2 Lightning greaves
2 Thousand-year elixir

4 Ancient tomb
4 City of traitors
4 Cavern of souls
4 Great furnace
3 Wasteland
4 Mountain


Sideboard running some combination of: torpor orb, ratchet bomb, phyrexian revoker, tormod's crypt, steel hellkite, duplicant, contagion engine, trinisphere, and blood moon.

Don't sleep on thousand-year elixir here. Haste and double activations on all your important cards is crucial. Twice the mana from metalworker, double welds on monoliths/furnaces for mana, or value on wurmcoils/titans/battlespheres, or getting a 4/7 and a 1/1 token for 1 mana on kuldotha activations. Godo is most likely the weakest card, but lodestone golem might be less desirable as there is competition at 4cc now. A 4th monolith, more wurmcoil/elixir/greaves, and staff of nin being cards that just missed the cut.


I do fear for another commander card ruining the fun:

Containment Priest - 1W
Creature - Human Cleric
Flash
If a nontoken creature would enter the battlefield and it wasn't cast, exile it instead.
2/2

If this sees any large amount of play (and I expect that it will), this deck will suffer. Tragically, there is a distinct lack of playable non-creature artifact "bombs" to cheat into play with kuldotha/welder/daretti. Basically there are 3: contagion engine, spine of ish sah, staff of nin. Although contagion and spine are viable answers, they are not very efficient ones. Whipflare and bonfire of the damned being the other options that come to mind. However this deck doesn't want to be playing the spot removal game in the first place.

[Zupponn]

Karn is nice, but I'm not sure there's space; Liquimetal coating would probably go if Dack goes from the maindeck anyways. Currently, I'm thinking that +1 TfK, +1 Daretti could serve as a Dack replacement for the main. Liquimetal and Smokestack could leave the SB and become 2 Dack, mostly to combat Batterskull.

And if we're thinking about Karn, don't forget the old Gorilla Shaman.

[bruizar]

2 Lightning greaves
2 Thousand-year elixir

If you were running a different, more red mana base, I'd run Hammer of Purphorus since it gives haste and is also a win condition on its own.

Also, would like to mention that Magus of the Bazaar exists.

[Gheizen64]

This is my current Godo+Daretti list:


Tax:
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Chalice of the Void

Equip Engine:
1 Lightning Greaves
4 Batterskull
2 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Daretti, Scrap Savant

Removal:
4 Sudden Shock
3 Ratchet Bomb


Mana:
4 City of Traitors
4 Plateau
4 Boros Signet
2 Arid Mesa
4 Boros Garrison
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls


I need a SB boys!

Some cards explanations:
8 sol lands +4 garrison: i wanted the most consistent mana base possible, with the least risk of mana floods and shit. Garrison helped me a lot because they can bounce your traitors in response to the sac trigger, making it the best land in the deck, plus give 2 of colored mana and can reset ur Cavern too ( Artificer->human).

4 Sphere + 4 CotV: with 8 sol lands, i wanted to maximize the 2 cmc artifacts. Chalice was obviously a no-brainer, but i wanted something else for combo and trini was often too slow because with garrison and a sol land your mana go like this 2->2->4. Trinishpere T3 fucking sucks. So i came back on Sphere. We almost always have a lot of mana with 12 lands that give 2 mana, 4 mana rocks, and 22 lands. Also Daretti and SFM bypass the sphere effects so why not. I also needed something vs elves, and multiple spheres are perfect.

The equipment engine: SFM is the best tinker legacy has. Godo goes without saying as he's autowin if he untap and sometimes even without untapping if you have Greaves into play. Batterskull gain tons of life, recur, and can be cheated by both SFM and Daretti. While Daretti may not seems the best card ever here, it's actually pretty good because it can cycle lategame spheres, chalices, for more board clears (rachet bombs) and threats (Batterskulls). It's also a way to actually activate germ tokens without paying mana cost if you have a batteskull in play and one in the grave.

The removals: Sudden shock are no punishing fire, but they make a nice impression. Split second allow you to be sure to remove any creature and not fear bounce (elves), swarm of tokens in response (Pyromancer), protection (mom), or counters. Ratchet are a 2 mana artifact, which are really good in this deck, and kill every single token and low cmc creatures in general. Really good against elves and delvers, and pyromancers. Plus, with Daretti you can cycle those. It's a pity it's non-instant speed, else you'd kill entreat the angel tokens too.

Thalia is a bit random there but provide a nice tax effect + a nice body for equips. And it get almost always removed at mana parity, which means one less removal for your other creatures. Welder is a possibility in its place since we already play Cavern on artificer anyway, but there isn't a lot to weld in this deck (Daretti has the +2 for it and come down late when you'll probably have artifacts in play and graveyard and/or cards in hand to cycle).

[Karhumies]

If we are talking about conditional cards into a MUD/welder-like shell to be thrown out with Daretti, don't forget about Tsabo's Web, Torpor Orb, Defense Grid, Trinisphere and Ensnaring Bridge. Most of these are SB options to bring in (instead of Ratchet Bomb, Chalice of the Void, mana stones or Engineered Explosives), but nevertheless in a specific FLGS metagame they can deal a lot of damage if you have information about your weekly opponents.

SFM allows tutoring for a Bskull or a masterwork. Also another way of cheating it into play.

Actually, SFM only allows to tutor for a BSkull. Masterwork is not an Equipment while it is in your library.