Well.....I think I am jumping ship from my Shardless deck (my baby ;( )
This deck was giving me a lot of problems, so I finally built it and being the first delver deck I ever piloted, I can only say i was BLOWN away by how strong it felt. The speed and some of the nut draws you get are too fun to pass up playing in NJ lol.
So my playtest group and best friend play lands which is a very hard matchup. I bring in needle and surgical, but still gives me fits (they have a version with main deck orb,Ostone.) Any tips? Also a friend and I were joking about trying a sulfur falls to try to fight choke G2.
What are the weakest matchups I should be worried about?
Thank you.
I imagine Blood Moon + PoP should be good here. You could also board in Vortex to focus more on burn since our creatures are not that great against Punishing Fire.Originally Posted by SilkyPimP
So it seems like there are two main things we need to figure out at this point with the main deck:
1. How many lands?
- Huang played 17 in his list but it seems like Glenn Jones was onto something with only 16. We don't want to be cruising into lands and since we don't play Wasteland, we don't need to draw as many lands as other delver decks.
2. What do we do with the other three burn spells?
- Huang played 2 forked bolt and 1 chain lightning, while Kevin Jones played 2 forked and 1 pyroblast. I'm not sure what's right here but I've been playing 3 forked and it seems reasonable. Other options includes fireblast, or more chain but I like how forked deals with elves and the mirror.
What do you guys think?
I've been playing 3 Forked Bolts too and although I love them I'm testing a Fire // Ice in place of one. I think the versatility it provides while also being a blue card can be worth it.
So far I've killed someone with Fire with a Chalice on 1 in play which felt pretty good obviously but very situational of course and I would have won that game either way. I've also killed someone by tapping their Germ token before blocks after they cheat it in which I feel is also a great application of the card. Other times I've drawn it it was either an expensive forked bolt or got pitched to FoW. I know 2 mana can make the "have a huge swiftspear/pyro turn" plan a little worst, but it hasn't come up yet. Still needs a lot of testing to be sure it's worth the slot over Forked/Pyroblast/Fireblast but for now I'm keeping it in.
About me the best solution is 1x forked 1x chain and 1x pop. Pop is good vs all legacy deck. One italian pro propose this list
Maindeck:
Creatures [12]
4*Delver of Secrets
4*Monastery Swiftspear
4*Young Pyromancer
Instants [17]
4*Brainstorm
4*Daze
4*Force of Will
4*Lightning Bolt
1*Price of Progress
Sorceries [14]
1*Chain Lightning
1*Forked Bolt
4*Gitaxian Probe
4*Ponder
4*Treasure Cruise
Lands [17]
1*Flooded Strand
1*Mountain
1*Wooded Foothills
3*Island
4*Polluted Delta
4*Scalding Tarn
3*Volcanic Island
Sideboard:
2*Grafdigger's Cage
2*Pithing Needle
1*Blood Moon
1*Sulfuric Vortex
2*Pyroblast
1*Red Elemental Blast
1*Smash to Smithereens
1*Gut Shot
1*Electrickery
2*Price of Progress
1*Forked Bolt
*
Match-up
Vs Miracle
-1 Fork -1 Chain -4 Daze
+2 Needle +3 Reb +1 Sulfuric
Vs Elfi
-1 Pop -1 Cruise -2 Daze -1 Pyro
+1 Fork +1 Cage +1 Elec +1 Gut
Vs BUG Delver
-2 Fow
+1 Forked +1 Moon
Vs Jund
-4 Fow OTP / -2 Daze -2 Fow OTD
+2 Pop +1 Moon +1 Forked
Vs Show&Tell
-1 Pop -1 Fork -1 Chain
+3 REB
Vs UR Delver
+1 Fork +1 Electrickery +1 Gut
+2 REB -1 Pop -4 Fow
Vs Deathblade
-4 Fow OTP/-4 Daze OTD -1 Pyro
+1 Moon +1 Smash +2 Pop +1 Fork
Vs Death&Taxes
-4 Fow P/-4 Daze D -1 Pop -1 Pyro
+1 Fork +1 Smash +2 Aghi +1 Gut +1 Elec
*
*
If we board out Force in so many matchups why not just make it a SB card to start with?
I don't side it out as much as diego does. That list of decks also doesn't include any combo decks besides Elves.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
It's just so necessary for the combo matchups and matchups where our opponents have maindeck haymakers. We can't beat enough decks without force that we need it main. Three may be right in the main but I'm not sure.
Edit: Whoops, I made a mistake
Last edited by kaminamina; 11-06-2014 at 03:40 PM. Reason: Delete
I'm going to this event: http://www.cardkingdom.com/static/ptq/20141108
I don't know the meta. I don't have time to buy cards. I have the current FOTM deck with 4 cruise, 12 cantrips, 12 creatures, 5 bolt, 2 forked bolt, 8 counterspells, 17 lands.
Cayse of the incredibly generous payout, I'm expecting a bunch of tryhards (keep in mind I myself am a tryhard), so lots of UR mirrors. Burn is always present since it's cheap, plus a playset of duals will put anyone into the format so burn is a near certainty. Probably a good amount elves and miracles. What should my board look like?
What I've got available:
1 blood moon
4 snapcaster
4 price of progress
1 tnn
1 pyrokinesis
4 spell snare
4 spell pierce
NO FLUSTERSTORMS
I have no more forked bolts because reasons
1 eidolon of the great hoser
4 pyroblast
3 grim lazermancer
1 dig through deck
1 grafdigger's cage
4 tormod's crypt
1 surgical extraction
I might be able to get my hands on one JTMS for anti miracles tech
I can also maybe get a single Jitte but my elves MU is already fine with all the burn
3 smash to smithereens
2 chaos warp
All the burn staples except eidolon
1 volcanic fallout, which seems AWFUL
Other various commons that aren't worth shit
So, what is my board?
I would go with something like
1 Blood Moon
2 PoP
2 Smash
3 Pierce
1 Cage
1 Lavamancer
2 Pyroblast
That's 12 cards. The remaining 3 could probably be some combinations of Extraction, Lavamancer, Pyroblast, Smash or PoP. Maybe 1 Extraction, 1 Pyro, 1 Lavamancer?
Lack of needle/null rod and Vortex for Miracles is not great, but there's enough stuff for the small creatures decks and without flusterstorms you can't do better than Pierces for combo I believe.
I would go:
1 Blood Moon
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Lavamancer
1 Spell Pierce
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 PoP
3 Pyroblast
You say that you have burn staples, and if that includes Sulfuric Vortex then add 2 of those to get this to 15. Otherwise, +1 Pyroblast +1 Surgical Extraction. I like Blood Moon better than PoP in this list so if you can get them I'd change the PoPs into +1 Blood Moon and +1 Pithing Needle.
I actually have needle, forgot to mention. I also have sulfuric vortex.
3 nonbasic land hosers seems like a lot, especially when PoP is such a niche card compared to blood moon.
I agree. It's probably right to play 1 Blood Moon and 1 PoP. This is my current sideboard and it has been working out well for me. With what you have you could just switch 1 Moon to 1 PoP and you're good to go.
2 Blood Moon
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Smash to Smithereens
2 Lavamancer
1 Spell Pierce
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyroblast
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Pithing Needle
This should be moved to the Decks to Beat thread. This deck is, quite literally, everywhere right now.
Today I am become death. The destroyer of worlds. -Oppenheimer
True, true
Placed top 4 of the GP Nashville Gencon tournament.
My list cuz bitches like lists
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Gut Shot
1 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked Bolt
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Treasure Cruise
1 Mountain
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Wasteland
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
Sideboard
1 Envelop
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
1 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 True-Name Nemesis
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Submerge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
Sidenote: I hadn't played in any large event since T. Cizzy was released. If I had tested against the mirror I would have switched the gut shot to pyroblast/ second spell pierce. Wasteland was insane all day for me.
Two rounds in to a 6 round tourney. Round one I swiftspear'd all over a RWU delver player; I double forked bolted his bskull for the win one game, felt good.
Round two I lost to countertop in the opening hand twice. I won game two with a double swiftspear opening but lost games one and three soundly.
I have yet to flip a delver in five games.
I will report back as the tournament progresses
Edit: beat burn 2-0. He made sure to tell me how op and brainless my deck was after walking into daze twice. Felt good.
I'm looking forward to seeing the DTB section updated this month. I'm pretty sure this deck will be moving to that section. I was just looking through the SCG Top-8s since Khans of Takrir was released. There have been 12 SCG events and 12 UR Delver Top 8s. Not too shabby. Though one was Bertoncinni....
Aight, I took 3rd/4th ("thourth") and made out like a king so here's my writeup.
Very stock UR cruise deck:
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Island
2 Mountain
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Treasure Cruise
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
1 Chain Lightning
4 Delver
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
Sideboard:
2 Pyroblast
2 Blood Moon
2 Spell Pierce
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Pithing Needle
Round 1 vs. RWU Delver
Game one I turn one probe him and see 2 swords. I have swiftspear, delver, pyro, so I figure I'll just bait out the removal and resolve pyro and wreck face. Unfortunately, pyro died to a topdecked bolt, and he had force backup to counter my own countermagic. I then resolved two treasure cruises, but didn't find any more sticky threats, and lost to an unanswered batterskull.
Game two he mulls to 4 and I win.
Game three was a slugfest, and by the end of it we both had every single mana producing land in either of our decks on the field. We were both topdecking, but I run recall, so eventually I just drowned him in cards and won. Let it be known that I did pyroblast my own land that game to get a lethal token off of pyromancer.
1-0
Round 2 vs. Miracles
Lose the die roll. He opens game 1 with turn 1 top, turn 2 ponder, turn 3 counterbalance. I had the nuts of swiftspear, delver, and a million cantrips, but couldn't cast anything after my turn 2. He removes both my creatures and I concede to save time since I know I can't win and don't want to draw the match.
I win game 2 by playing two swiftspears. He gets countertop out but it's too late; he kept countering my spells with CB but it didn't matter since they buffed swiftspear.
I lose game 3 to a serious misplay. He goes turn 1 top, I force, pitching cruise. I go turn 1 volcanic. I HAVE PYROBLAST IN MY HAND. I CHOOSE TO PONDER INSTEAD. Then he resolves counterbalance, and blind flips a 1-drop to counter my pyroblast to kill CB. Then he resolves top #2 and I lose very slowly. I played it out, but entreat the angels is like a 2 turn clock.
1-1
Round 3 vs. Burn
Game one he mulls to 4. I win.
Game two he mulls to 6. I kill him faster than he can kill me.
2-1
Round 4 vs. UR Delver
I think he played game one way too aggressively; he bolted my face to put me at 8, and I removed all his dudes and slowly won with a swiftspear while we were both topdecking.
Game two he played too conservatively. He didn't want to get dazed or something so he didn't cast spells when he could have just slammed them. Meanwhile I figured he sided out his countermagic so I'm just slamming threats on the table and he can't keep up so I win. He did get an electrickery off to kill two pyromancers (I overextended like a dumbass), but I had cruise in hand so I just refueled and won.
3-1
Round 5 vs. 4 color stuff
I got reaaaally lucky this game; he kept a hand with goyf, 2 swords, and a decay, and somehow I (a) had more threats than he had removal and (b) had a force for his goyf and (c) had a cruise to follow up the force with. I'm not gonna pretend like I didn't get lucky there.
His sideboard plan was a bit sketchy. Gaddock Teeg deals with exactly one card in my deck, so I'm not sure why he brought them in. Plus I bolted both his Teegs and cruised anyway. I won on card advantage.
4-1
Round 6 vs. Jeremy the Nice Tournament Math Guy
Jeremy explained to me that we were all but guaranteed slots in the top 8 if we drew, and I was hungry and needed a smoke so I drew in.
4-1-1
Top 8, Round 1 vs. UR Delver, again
Different guy from round 4. Game one he probed me and saw Daze, and like... he decided "oh I can't let any spells get countered" so he waited for another land drop and just didn't cast any spells. Like I get that getting spells countered sucks but you just have to ram a must-kill spell into their daze and then resolve everything after it. It's not ideal but he literally just went "draw, pass" like three turns while I developed my board.
Game two was even weirder, he figured since swiftspear dies to bolt he should side it out... Like, what? He sided out FOUR OF HIS TWELVE THREATS, then wondered why he lost when he didn't have a way to kill me. He complained that I had perfect draws when I hardcasted force of will late game. What the fuck did you expect when a delver player played 5 lands. He was so salty afterward, saying shit like "oh it's all about who resolves treasure cruise first, you just got lucky." Whatever, I won 2-0.
I'll explain the payout here since most people would just split at top 8. First place would get 4 NM revised underground sea, second place would get 4 NM revised bayou, 3rd-4th get 1 NM revised volcanic, 5th-8th get a FoW. (Card Kingdom is VERY generous with their payout.) I thought that splitting at top 4 would be impossible, since it's 10 cards between 4 people, but one guy came up with a clever idea: every player in the top 4 would receive one sea and one bayou, then the winners of the two semifinals games would get a volcanic. Then the finals is just for the title of winner. Everyone jumped on that offer because come on, guaranteed duals. So at this point I have a sea and a bayou in my possession, and I'm playing for a volcanic.
Top 8, round 2 vs. Jeremy, playing 4c delver
Same guy from round 6. Guy's a very smart player; he made the meta call that deathrite shaman is nuts against UR delver, and he was rite (get it? rite? heh). Game one I scooped to three DRS with an empty hand. I was at 16 life but whatever, fuck it.
Game two I almost had a chance, then he countered my treasure cruise and resolved a scavenging ooze and I couldn't race it with no cards.
FINAL SCORE: 3RD/4TH PLACE
WINNINGS: ONE NM REVISED UNDERGROUND SEA, ONE NM REVISED BAYOU (~$500)
All in all, a pretty good day.
Any questions?
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