[Deck] Goblins

[OlegtheSuper]

That new Cleric isn't going to make as much of an impact as Thalia. First off, it does nothing against low cmc delver/DRS/SFM/Goyf decks, whereas Thalia could at least punish their 18 land builds. Secondly, in almost any scenario where the Cleric is good Thalia is too, because Thalia makes those cheating spells more difficult to cast. Thirdly, Thalia has more of an impact across the format against a greater variety of combo decks (at the same cmc as cleric). Lastly, decks that could run the Cleric have anti-synergies with it (DnT has Vial, Maverick has GSZ) that they don't have with Thalia. Lastly lastly the cleric is easier to play around than Thalia.

But the Cleric is a house against Zombardment.

Lol. Thalia does their spells more expansive when cleric kills their wincons! Think about it.
I mean S&T, reanimator, elves, dreadge. There are only ANT and TES where Thalia is much better

[jrw1985]

Lol. Thalia does their spells more expansive when cleric kills their wincons! Think about it. I mean S&T, reanimator, elves, dreadge. There are only ANT and TES where Thalia is much better

Cleric does not kill their win cons. They just need to answer it. And, unlike Thalia, cleric does not hinder their answers.

But whatever. Buy a playset, write a tournament report, and let us know how mediocre it was.

[Chatto]

Came across this article: http://themeadery.org/articles/wizar...f-tarkir-block

True or false?

EDIT: nevermind, just a satirical thing... Really got me ghehehe

[OlegtheSuper]

Cleric does not kill their win cons. They just need to answer it. And, unlike Thalia, cleric does not hinder their answers.

But whatever. Buy a playset, write a tournament report, and let us know how mediocre it was.

Need no test to understand it. S&T can cast Show and Tell for 4 mana with Thalia on the board and kill you, and cant do the same with cleric on the board.

Reanimator can cast S&T or reanimate/exhume for up to 4 mana with Thalia on the board and kill you and cant do the same with cleric.

Same with dredge.

But cleric do nothing vs ANT, TES and this is very sad.

Anyway we can run cleric+thalia or cleric+canonist or smthing else to disrupt ANT.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Goblins in top 8 right now. Starcity Oakland CA

Decklist.

[OlegtheSuper]

Looks like this is mrblueduck! Congratulations! Very good result!

[mrblueduck]

Looks like this is mrblueduck! Congratulations! Very good result!

That unfortunately was not me. I lost my round 7, finishing 6-2. Good for 17th. I however did share my list with one friend who played virtually my 75, going 6-0-2.

[potatodavid]

That new Cleric isn't going to make as much of an impact as Thalia. First off, it does nothing against low cmc delver/DRS/SFM/Goyf decks, whereas Thalia could at least punish their 18 land builds. Secondly, in almost any scenario where the Cleric is good Thalia is too, because Thalia makes those cheating spells more difficult to cast. Thirdly, Thalia has more of an impact across the format against a greater variety of combo decks (at the same cmc as cleric). Lastly, decks that could run the Cleric have anti-synergies with it (DnT has Vial, Maverick has GSZ) that they don't have with Thalia. Lastly lastly the cleric is easier to play around than Thalia.

But the Cleric is a house against Zombardment.

https://imgflip.com/i/drgfg

[GoboLord]

Hey folks,

I'm preparing for a bigger event next week and I need your oppinion on some issues.
My point of departure is basically the same as a few months ago. In my oppinion the WInstigator approach is still the right way to go, as the decklist I ended up after my last intense testing phase had good results against the field (with few exceptions bein around 50%).

Here is the list I am starting with now:

Mana (22)
10 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
3 Chrome Mox
2 Pendelhaven

[b] 4-OFFs (32)
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Tarfire

Others (6)
2 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

//Sideboard (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Chrome Mox
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Goblin Settler


There are only few slots I am not 100% confident about.
2 Warchiefs in MD. They are definitely not bad. But The are the 59th and 60th best card in the MD right now.
1 Chrome Mox and 1 Boartusk Liege in SB. I havn't found any better use for these two slots, because the 13 remaining cards give me enough options to board against every MU. So these two are quite conditional and oftentimes not needed.

Before I go ahead and worry about those four slots in total I'd like to discuss some points with you guys.

Which of the already existing decks do you think are becoming more popular "post-Treasure Cruise"?
Which new decks/variations can we expect to see?
What are their problematic cards?
What are your strategies/SB cards against them? I'm especially looking at URx Delver decks here.

I'm asking these question because I havn't found the time to test yet and probably won't do so until the said event.

Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with the new meta (if there is any).

[LittleGreenGuys]

Hey folks,

I'm preparing for a bigger event next week and I need your oppinion on some issues.
My point of departure is basically the same as a few months ago. In my oppinion the WInstigator approach is still the right way to go, as the decklist I ended up after my last intense testing phase had good results against the field (with few exceptions bein around 50%).

Here is the list I am starting with now:

Mana (22)
10 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
3 Chrome Mox
2 Pendelhaven

[b] 4-OFFs (32)
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Tarfire

Others (6)
2 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

//Sideboard (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Chrome Mox
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Goblin Settler


There are only few slots I am not 100% confident about.
2 Warchiefs in MD. They are definitely not bad. But The are the 59th and 60th best card in the MD right now.
1 Chrome Mox and 1 Boartusk Liege in SB. I havn't found any better use for these two slots, because the 13 remaining cards give me enough options to board against every MU. So these two are quite conditional and oftentimes not needed.

Before I go ahead and worry about those four slots in total I'd like to discuss some points with you guys.

Which of the already existing decks do you think are becoming more popular "post-Treasure Cruise"?
Which new decks/variations can we expect to see?
What are their problematic cards?
What are your strategies/SB cards against them? I'm especially looking at URx Delver decks here.

I'm asking these question because I havn't found the time to test yet and probably won't do so until the said event.

Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with the new meta (if there is any).

I played a list very similar to yours at SCG Minneapolis last weekend. Finished 3-5, could have played better. The one thing I wish I had for after playing this event was a Goblin Settler. Lost 2 of my matches to glacial chasm and gotbw/punishing fire combo. Playing one is a good idea but I wish I would have had one main. My other side board thoughts include surgical extraction and sulfuric vortex for these matchups. I would also expect to see U/R delver at some point.

[GoboLord]

I played a list very similar to yours at SCG Minneapolis last weekend. Finished 3-5, could have played better. The one thing I wish I had for after playing this event was a Goblin Settler. Lost 2 of my matches to glacial chasm and gotbw/punishing fire combo. Playing one is a good idea but I wish I would have had one main. My other side board thoughts include surgical extraction and sulfuric vortex for these matchups. I would also expect to see U/R delver at some point.

Thank you for your suggestion. Goblin Settler will definitely get a spot in the MD (received my 2nd copy yesterday) probably in exchange for 1 Warchief.
In line with that Id like to hear oppinions on whether I should replace Wastelands with Rishadan Port now that there are tutorable solutions for utility lands that actually need to be DESTROYED.

[GoboLord]

Here are my thoughts on the UR Delver decks and the matchup. What I am writing now is pure theory and NOT based on testing results, but on an eyeball/mircosoft-excel analysis of succesful UR Delverlists on mtgtop8.com

The stocklist seems to be very tight and straightforward:

//LANDS
10 Fetchlands
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Mountain
==> 7 actual manasources, 10 lands that cost 1 life, 17 lands in total


//CREATURES
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
3-4 Monastery Swiftspear
==> 8 very good T1-plays, 4 Pyromancer, 11-12 creatures in total

//SPELLS
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
3-4 Treasure Cruise
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Chain Lightning
1 Forked Bolt
1 Flexslot
==> 16 Cantrips, 8 counterspells, 6 removalspells


Strengths
+ very strong creatures that can easily win the game in a rush. All of them "Handle-Me"s
+ Treasure Cruise

Weaknesses (in general and Goblins in particular)
- many cmc=1 spells (around 75% of the non-land cards)
- few creatures
- few spotremoval
- few lands
- no mass-removal SB cards (other than Electricky) as they are weak against massremoval themselves

This has the following implication for the strategy:
* Chalice of the Void hits them really bad although NONE of their creatures demands that spells to actually RESOLVE to have an effect on them
* every creature is in Tarfire's range. Tarfire is best used in your own turn to remove their creatures. This way they will have to invest a card in order to save their Swiftspear. When targeting Pyromancer they will try to play spells in response to get more tokens, which gives you better information as to how many blockers they have.
* on the one hand a low landcount means that they are randomly weak against manadenial. On the other hand destroying lands is not too hot, because Treasure Cruise can eat their graveyard. Plus, they should be fine with fetching those 2 basiclands early on
* in the absence of massremoval we can recklessly fill our board and over-extend without regrets. This is a really awkward position against a red deck.

I'm curious how others, that have actually played the MU, find this analysis. Do you think it's acurate?

[Sandro95]

I'm curious how others, that have actually played the MU, find this analysis. Do you think it's acurate?

I've played the matchup a few times. Chalice of the Void has indeed been great against them (I play four copies side). Treasure Cruise is good, but Goblin Ringleader is better. If I have the mana to cast my spells and can control the board by killing their creatures or blocking with Mogg War Marshals etc, I feel good about my chances to win. I'll still need to test the matchup further though, as I believe it will likely be popular at GPNJ.

[jrw1985]

Hey folks,

I'm preparing for a bigger event next week and I need your oppinion on some issues.
My point of departure is basically the same as a few months ago. In my oppinion the WInstigator approach is still the right way to go, as the decklist I ended up after my last intense testing phase had good results against the field (with few exceptions bein around 50%).

Here is the list I am starting with now:

Mana (22)
10 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
3 Chrome Mox
2 Pendelhaven

[b] 4-OFFs (32)
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Tarfire

Others (6)
2 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

//Sideboard (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Chrome Mox
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Goblin Settler


There are only few slots I am not 100% confident about.
2 Warchiefs in MD. They are definitely not bad. But The are the 59th and 60th best card in the MD right now.
1 Chrome Mox and 1 Boartusk Liege in SB. I havn't found any better use for these two slots, because the 13 remaining cards give me enough options to board against every MU. So these two are quite conditional and oftentimes not needed.

Before I go ahead and worry about those four slots in total I'd like to discuss some points with you guys.

Which of the already existing decks do you think are becoming more popular "post-Treasure Cruise"?
Which new decks/variations can we expect to see?
What are their problematic cards?
What are your strategies/SB cards against them? I'm especially looking at URx Delver decks here.

I'm asking these question because I havn't found the time to test yet and probably won't do so until the said event.

Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with the new meta (if there is any).

Hello Christain,

Here are a few of my takes on your list-

Chrome Mox - I'd cut it. I don't think T1 Winnie is the dream, and I think Chrome mox hurts our manabase in the late game. I think you'd rather just play Mountains. Or 2 Mountains, 1 Port. That will leave you with 12 lands that can produce R for Tarfire, which is 1/5th of your deck and has been working well for me.

Pyrokinesis - Make room for it. This is the card-disadvantage speed-generator you want instead of CM. Rather than accelarate casting your Winnies it helps to get your Winnies and Lackeys through blockers (which is what we really want anyway). I like running 2 MD. I would cut 1 Tarfire and 1 Warchief for it.

Warchief - since you don't like those Warchiefs I'd cut 1 for a Goblin Settler. Decks with maindeck Settler have been doing very well and obviously having it + Kiki G1 creates some blowouts.

[Stevestamopz]

I'm curious how others, that have actually played the MU, find this analysis. Do you think it's acurate?

From my testing with classic r/g vials, your analysis is correct.
The best way to beat them is to trade with them 1 for 1 while doing the mana denial plan and using the card advantage engines.
I think the winstigator list sucks to be honest (why make your ringleaders worse), but I've never properly play-tested it so I will stop there.

I've noticed a lot of people cutting warchiefs and chieftains however? This is madness to me; a hasty piledriver with a few other dudes is how you can win games from out of nowhere.

[LeoCop 90]

I still didn't play with goblins against U/R delver, but my first impression is that mogg war marshal would be very good to prevent a lot of early damage from swiftspear and pyromancer and reach late game.
On the other hand they play treasure cruise so we are not necessarily favoured in the attrition war, so maybe putting pressure with lackey and instigator is good to steal wins when they don't have removal and make them stay on defence (if you go turn 1 lackey or instigator, they can't deploy their turn one swiftspear or delver because they need to answer your threat).
One way or another, is crucially important to keep your life total as healthy as possible because the risk of getting burnt out is too high against a deck that can draw 3 out of nowhere and also plays brainstorms and ponders.

[OlegtheSuper]

Mrbkueduck, will you share your tournament report?

[mrblueduck]

Mrbkueduck, will you share your tournament report?

I probably will write something up when I get the chance. In the meantime if you wanted a discussion on the goblin list, they discuss the deck on SCG's main site in an article called CEDTalks :
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...-Sullivan.html

They talk about the goblin list around 16:45

[Chatto]

So, props for the build by Cedrick... That's nice. I always loved the white splash and it turned out performing pretty good. Looks I'm going to brew the Rw Goblins again

EDIT: so Richard Liu dropped Piledriver completly. Is this your friend, mrblueduck? List has your signature, sort of

[GoboLord]

Mana (22)
10 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
3 Chrome Mox
2 Pendelhaven

[b] 4-OFFs (32)
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Tarfire

Others (6)
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Pyrokinesis

Thank you guys for your comments on my decklist and the UR Delver MU.
After some thought I will kick those 2 Warchiefs and replace them with each 1 Goblin Settler and 1 Pyrokinesis.



How would youboard against UR Delver withthat list.? The obvious card to bring in are +4 Chalice of the Void and +1Sharpshooter. What would you board out an in which number?

Also with regard to the SBing guide in the opening post what would you consider to be Tier 1 and Tier 2 SBcards in this MU?