Miracle Control

[exallium]

Played a few games using Einherjer's 60 with a slightly tweaked board. Won almost all of them except vs. RUG Delver, who proceeded to lose game 1 to an early terminus and then kicked my head in g2 and g3 with Sulfuric Vortex. Never saw Blue-Blast or Disenchant =P.

What do people think of Council's Judgment in this matchup? I was on the line of thought of "too slow".

[natethegrate]

Played a few games using Einherjer's 60 with a slightly tweaked board. Won almost all of them except vs. RUG Delver, who proceeded to lose game 1 to an early terminus and then kicked my head in g2 and g3 with Sulfuric Vortex. Never saw Blue-Blast or Disenchant =P.

What do people think of Council's Judgment in this matchup? I was on the line of thought of "too slow".

I think its fine, depending on what version they are playing. Its much better against the older version but now with cruise and pyro I dont think its worth having both in.

What is everyone's oppinion on maindeck blasts for gp nj? Also, how good is REB in the ur delver matchup anyways? I know it counters TC, but that is about it besides force and cantrips. At the point where your just countering those, how much do you consider flusterstorm?

[exallium]

I like reb in ein's deck when you're against non-wasteland decks. Like the ur delver that has been running rampant. I like flusterstorm better vs threshold.

If you're running the basic mountain, reb becomes much more playable in the wasteland matchups.

Remember its hard removal for delver as well.

[rancOr_]

I think its fine, depending on what version they are playing. Its much better against the older version but now with cruise and pyro I dont think its worth having both in.

What is everyone's oppinion on maindeck blasts for gp nj? Also, how good is REB in the ur delver matchup anyways? I know it counters TC, but that is about it besides force and cantrips. At the point where your just countering those, how much do you consider flusterstorm?

I think MD blast are okay but its perfectly fine to just play them sb (what I do). REB is really good in the UR Delver MU, especially since u know they dont run wasteland. Its the only delver deck I board REB's in against. Combined with flusterstorms and 4terminus 4 CB,and 2 Council's Judgement (to take care of Sulfuric Vortex) I feel really good in that matchup..

[exallium]

I think a lot of people are going to be hedging their bets on a Delver heavy meta @ the GP... I'd expect to see a fair amount of Control and combo in the room.

[Malakai]

There are a lot of people in this thread worried about Treasure Cruise. I don't think those people understand how Counterbalance works.

[Malakai]

A sideboard with a Stoneforge package and Containment Priest probably doesn't need to have Rest in Peace. Likely you can get there against dredge off the back of the priest and batterskull (and Terminus!), and the Stoneforge package is probably strong enough against midrange BUG decks to make up the difference there. The big upside here is that Containment Priest is basically all we have ever wanted against Show and Tell.

The big loss with this plan is against RUG Delver, but that's about the only flavor of delver I don't see anymore, and even then it was hard to stick a RiP that wasn't too late.

[mort-]

A sideboard with a Stoneforge package and Containment Priest probably doesn't need to have Rest in Peace. Likely you can get there against dredge off the back of the priest and batterskull (and Terminus!), and the Stoneforge package is probably strong enough against midrange BUG decks to make up the difference there. The big upside here is that Containment Priest is basically all we have ever wanted against Show and Tell.

The big loss with this plan is against RUG Delver, but that's about the only flavor of delver I don't see anymore, and even then it was hard to stick a RiP that wasn't too late.

That's exactly what I thought about my new sideboard. Probably 2 SFM, 1 Skull, 3 Priest - room being made by Sulfur Elemental (as Priest will have to be enough hate against DnT) and RiP (as the only MU where RiP is better than Priest is BUG, which will be helped with SFM).

[rancOr_]

Containment Priest is basically all we have ever wanted against Show and Tell.[/B]
.

The only way I saw myself losing to Show and Tell was because some list are starting to play Boseju(s) (which they should imho). CPriest would sure help against this scenario.

[TheHeff]

Hi all, I'm a longtime Shardless player that's looking for a new pet deck and am seriously considering miracles. I do most of my testing on mtgo (legacy scene at local stores is basically nonexistant) so unfortunately proxying up the deck isn't feasible. My questions are these:

I'm leaning toward to Lossett list as the legendary/karakas synergy seems like it makes for some really interesting lines and gives the deck a lot of interaction. A lot of the recent pages go back and forth on this, but how does this deck fare against UR delver? It seems like with Walkers leaving lists maybe cutting one Clique for another Snap main for more flexibility? A lot of my Shardless brethren are cutting jace frim their lists as he isn't great against Pyromancer and very fast tempo. I know he's a major win con or miracles, but is 3 still roughly the optimal number?

Also, any advice for someone starting out the deck that are often overlooked or nuanced? Thanks in advance!

[decan]

You don't have time for durdling around with Clique/Venser or Rest in Peace/Helm Combo when facing Delver decks with Recall. If you plan on visiting the legacy GP and play any other version, well good luck, you will need to be very lucky to even make it to Day 2.

well how did that work out for you yesterday? Didn't you live by your own words? LOL

[twndomn]

I'm leaning toward to Lossett list as the legendary/karakas synergy seems like it makes for some really interesting lines and gives the deck a lot of interaction. A lot of the recent pages go back and forth on this, but how does this deck fare against UR delver? It seems like with Walkers leaving lists maybe cutting one Clique for another Snap main for more flexibility? A lot of my Shardless brethren are cutting jace frim their lists as he isn't great against Pyromancer and very fast tempo. I know he's a major win con or miracles, but is 3 still roughly the optimal number?

Also, any advice for someone starting out the deck that are often overlooked or nuanced? Thanks in advance!

Pyromancer should not be your concern, neither is number of Jaces. If you're new to Miracles, just focus on getting over the learning curve. Too many new Miracles pilots tried it for a while and then just gave up. Stick with Lossett's list because you can Blast Treasure Cruises. Once you're over the curve, then your comments will have more meanings.

[bruizar]

Maindeck Chokes too now! Haters gonna hate.

[Adryan]

well how did that work out for you yesterday? Didn't you live by your own words? LOL

yesterday was not a good tournament for me. so what? do you think that a tournament that is as big as a modern premier event on modo does provide any evidence that i'm wrong about that Legendary/RIP is not as good as a Ponder/Snapcaster build in the current meta? I never said it's a bad version of miracles anyway. i mean it's just not optimal in the current metagame. You can still make day 2 or X-2 at the GP if RNG favors you, but you decrease the odds of doing well by playing a RIP/legendary build.

UR Delver goldfishes consistently on Turn 4 if you don't have enough disruption. So running stuff like Venser, Clique, Karakas& Mystic Gate (which will slow you sometimes down due to their inconsistency) and non board affecting cards like RIP and fewer removal spells is not where you want to be.

[Dice_Box]

I have been running RIP Helm for a little over a month. What it makes up for against UR it loses against anything faster or with Decay. I love the deck, it's my new favourite build, but it's by far not the best one around. It's good in the right meta but it's not something I would take to an Open.

[exallium]

yesterday was not a good tournament for me. so what? do you think that a tournament that is as big as a modern premier event on modo does provide any evidence that i'm wrong about that Legendary/RIP is not as good as a Ponder/Snapcaster build in the current meta? I never said it's a bad version of miracles anyway. i mean it's just not optimal in the current metagame. You can still make day 2 or X-2 at the GP if RNG favors you, but you decrease the odds of doing well by playing a RIP/legendary build.

UR Delver goldfishes consistently on Turn 4 if you don't have enough disruption. So running stuff like Venser, Clique, Karakas& Mystic Gate (which will slow you sometimes down due to their inconsistency) and non board affecting cards like RIP and fewer removal spells is not where you want to be.

I think my main concern is that I've been on Legendary Miracles for like 8 months and have maybe 2 weeks of play in with the ponder version.

[T-101]

Also, any advice for someone starting out the deck that are often overlooked or nuanced? Thanks in advance!

One of the little things I picked up is the Fetch/Spin trick. If you have a top, and want to crack a Fetchland, it is wise to activate the "Look at the top 3" ability, and respond to it by cracking your fetch. This is useful against decks that might have a way to destroy your top (Krosan Grip, Abrupt Decay, Wear // Tear, Vialing in a Revoker). This way, even if your Top gets killed/shuffled away/whatever, you can still look at the top 3 after your shuffle.

Two good places to get insight on this deck's nuances is Joe Losset's stream at www.twitch.tv/oarsman79 or on the Sunday Legacy stream from Star City. You'll get some helpful info, without the shittalk and vitriol of a forum thread!

[Adryan]

I think my main concern is that I've been on Legendary Miracles for like 8 months and have maybe 2 weeks of play in with the ponder version.

If you play any version well, you can play every version well. There's not much of a difference between them.

Because Prague was kind of fun, although i went really bad, i once again really enjoy this deck and built a Dig Through Time version of it. I have a blast playing it on Modo and only having 1 Jace is really awesome. Until Treasure Cruise is hopefully banned, i think Dig through Time is better than Jace in this metagame.

So if anyone wants to try new stuff out, give it a shot, i think it has potential of being really good.

[exallium]

If you play any version well, you can play every version well. There's not much of a difference between them.

Because Prague was kind of fun, although i went really bad, i once again really enjoy this deck and built a Dig Through Time version of it. I have a blast playing it on Modo and only having 1 Jace is really awesome. Until Treasure Cruise is hopefully banned, i think Dig through Time is superior in the metagame.

So if anyone wants to try new stuff out, give it a shot, i think it has potential of being really good.

That sounds sweet. Is the 2 jace for 2 dig the swap? Do you find the deck takes longer to win at all?

I'll take the play one, play all in confidence. Ive been able to put up good results locally with the deck, so I'll keep on testing with the ponder version. I've got a pile of cards to use to figure out my sideboard.

[natethegrate]

What do you guys think of just a straight swap with the 2 RIP in the board of the ponder list for 2 containment priest? It seems like if your on the plan of boarding out all you Counterballences against the bug decks then you don't want RIP anyways, and the priest seems just better in any of the other matchups where RIP is good.