two quick questions
1) in the 21 land ponder list, is pyroclasm still a good sideboard card without any basic mountains?
2) for a 15 round event, should i go revised basics to search easier, or beta basics because, well, beta basics?
I play a 1/1 split with basic mountain/volc.Originally Posted by nwrobinson
I play WB, due to consistency, ie. all fetchable lands are wb.
I really like having basics of the colors I need, so I approve of including the Mountain. But Mountain or no, I think Pyroclasm is still strong.
The thing is, when you go to cast Pyroclasm, it is either swinging the game heavily in your favor, or keeping you from dying. If that means you have to get Wastelanded in the process, at least you're killing their guys. A 2 mana Wrath is worth taking some risks for.
beta basics fits better with the beta duals, so I guess beta basics it is.
But the english language doesn't fit with the german cards I play... :)
I've been playing a list with the same main deck as Chi Hoy Yim's 1st place deck from the Open he won, with a tweaked sideboard.
With UR all over the place, delver everywhere, and almost no copies of Liliana anymore, do you think it is a better choice to cut the Council's Judgment from the main for the fourth Counterbalance?
Hi guys.
As part of my Digital Marketing & Social Media class I have to have an personal blog and one of my topics is MTG. In todays post I discuss my Miracles list and what changes I am making to it.
I would really appreciate if you would give it a read and maybe let me know what you think in the comment section.
Thank you all
http://deliriousobsessions.wordpress...e-in-miracles/
I think Summer basics fit the nicest with Beta duals, but that's just me.
Reasonably, in this meta, I think you want to be on 4 Counterbalances if you're going to run the card at all. I know Gold Digger isn't running the card, but I think we have a much better UR Delver matchup from the minimal testing I've done.
I've also gone to 2 REB main, 2 side, and cut Council's Judgment completely (goodnight, sweet prince...).
-Matt
This list is what I used to secure byes for the gp :)
The forth counterbalance is definitely worth it. Cutting Judgment feels bad though. I would want at least one in my 75. It's not great vs the boogyman but is still very applicable and useful.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
good read. i have one question: if Venser is not good enough for the SB, why is he still played in the Maindeck?
TheRiedl on Magic Online
About Magic Online:
I can play legacy whenever I want. Cardboard has no value. Data has no value. My time and enjoyment has high value to me. More legacy = more fun. Buy in.
I think Venser is weaker primarily due to the severe lack of Liliana and overflow of delver strategies in the current meta. It gets you out of some sticky spots with Boseiju but I think (for Sneak and Show at least) that Containment Priest is just better in this matchup.
I do agree with a lot of what is said in the article, but I still don't agree with DTT in Miracles. I feel like we run way too many enchantments and artifacts to be able to use the card reliably, especially in multiple copies. Given the "the first one's free" mindset, I could see running at most 1. The card is obviously powerful, but we're running enough clunky cards as it is. UWR Dig Control is a much better shell if you want to be running it in multiples.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
Hi everyone. I went to a local Legacy tournament last weekend in Memphis, TN and I would like to share my decklist and experience with playing Miracles at this event where I took 2nd place.
First of all, my decklist was an exact 75 cards (except my blue fetch of choice was Polluted Delta rather than Scalding Tarn) copied from a youtube video I saw of a couple of French guys doing a Miracles deck tech. I wasn't sure about some of their card choices, but when I sleeved it up and started testing, I found that this version feels less clunky and more consistant than other versions. Also I'm happy to be playing a high number of 1 mana answers to delver decks, because I feel like people sometimes don't bring enough hate for Delver decks. And by "hate" I mean, removal spells.
Here is the decklist I played and I am very happy with:
Miracles
Lands 22
3 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
Creatures 3
3 Snapcaster Mage
Instants 16
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries 6
1 Council's Judgment
3 Entreat the Angels
4 Terminus
Enchantments 4
4 Counterbalance
Artifacts 4
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalkers 3
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sideboard 15
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Council's Judgment
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Flusterstorm
1 Hydroblast
1 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Wear // Tear
Brief tournament report:
Round 1 Slivers Win 2-0
My opponent gets stuck on 1 Island even after Brainstorm. I did not miss any lands drops and game 1 was pretty easy to take when you have a bunch of lands and your opponent does not. Game 2 wasn't difficult either. A couple of well timed Terminus was enough to slow my opponent down long enough for me to build a mana base and kill him with Entreat the Angels.
1-0
Round 2 UR Delver Win 2-1
Game 1 was pretty back and forth but he eventually got there with a few Lightning Bolts to kill me in the turns I was stabilizing. I was able to deal with all of his creatures efficiently, but I took enough hits early game that the Lightning Bolts got there. Game 2 was super quick. I lead with turn 1 Sensei's Divining Top, he lead with Mountain, Monastery Swiftspear. I was super stoked to see he lead with Mountain, because I knew then on turn 2 I could slam Counterbalance without having to worry about Daze. My opponent scooped two turns later. Game 3 he comes out of the gates strong with double delver getting ready to flip and I naturally draw a Terminus that goes uncountered. The rest of the game was him cantripping like crazy and me just killing or countering each threat as it came down. Somewhere during this match my opponent and I had a timing issue with Sensei's Divining Top and Counterbalance. My opponent declared he wanted to respond after it was too late as determined by a judge. Lesson here is, you must give your opponent a chance to respond. Even though I didn't use the ability super fast, and the judge ruled in my favor, adequate communication from both sides is important. I talked to my opponent later that night and it turns out he didn't have much in the way of responding anyway. Nothing that would have turned the tide of the game I was already winning. He was also a good sport regarding the whole judge call issue.
2-0
Round 3 BUG Delver Win 2-0
This guy threw me for a loop Game 1. For a while, I thought he was a RUG delver deck until I saw Tarmogoyf and Abrupt Decay. Needless to say, this match went about the same as the UR Delver match did. I killed his early threats and developed my land base while he dug for threats. I hard casted Entreat the Angels for 5, making 1 angel. which got him all the way down to 3 life before Abrupt Decay killed it. Then I resolved Jace and that was the end of Game 1. Game 2 wasn't too much different than game 1. I got a Jace out to 13 loyalty and the turn I was ready to ultimate Jace, I played Council's Judgment for his Tarmogoyf. My opponent picked up my card, read it, and then wanted to vote for my Jace. I said ok, as in it I think it didn't matter, and he thought both Tarmogoyf and Jace were supposed to be exiled. When I reread the card to him and explained to him that he couldn't choose my permanants anyway and that whatever I pick will win from Tie Voting, he scooped his cards up and warned me by saying "letting me make a wrong decision is shady". Where I never meant to make my opponent think anything different than what was actually going on, I want to take this opportunity to apologize again to my opponent if he happens to read this.
3-0
Round 4 UB Tezzeret Loss 1-2
This match was really tough. I was able to dodge turn 1 Chalice of the Void Game 1 and Game 2, but he got it down in Game 3. Game 1 he kept casting Planeswalker after Planeswalker, eventually racing my Jace, the Mind Sculptor that was ramping to try to kill him, by playing Tezzeret the Seeker, and over the course of two turns, assembling Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek. I was unable to deal with this in Game 1 and it eventually became the death of me in Game 3. We had a real hard fought match though, and even though I lost, I was very proud of the performance I gave in that match. He ended up winning the event with that deck so congratulations to him if he's reading!
3-1
Round 5 Sneak and Show Win 2-1
This was another really hard fought game that eventually came down to my opponent making a mistake regarding the stack. Game 1 I honestly forget how I won. I think I just got him with an Entreat the Angels and kept him from casting his game winning spells the whole game. Game 2 he got me turn 2 or 3 with Emrakul and I couldn't answer it. Game 3 was pretty awesome. I was able to hold of a couple of his Game winning spells, and then he cast a Sneak Attack. I responded with Force of Will, pitching blue card. He responded with Pyroblast on Force of Will. I responded with tap Sensei's Divining Top, draw and cast Flusterstorm. My opponent calls a judge here to ask him away from the table questions I can only assume had to do with the stack and Flusterstorm. My opponent let the stack resolve. A let out a huge sigh of relief since I had nothing else to deal with the Sneak Attack had he had another counter. Which he did, I found out after the match. He just didn't know enough about how the stack worked to know that he could have Force of Will'd my Force of Will after all the Flusterstorms finished resolving. So I got pretty lucky there, but it just goes to show, the more you know regarding the rules of the game, the better your decisions become. The last turn of the game came down to me eventually drawing another Force of Will and Flusterstorm. My opponent cast Sneak Attack again which I responded with tap Sensei's Divining Top, miracle Entreat the Angels for 3. My opponent let it resolve and then I Force of Will'd his Sneak Attack expecting him to Force back or something. he didn't have another blue card and extended his hand.
4-1
I finished the tournament at 2nd place and my prize was a Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Even though I lost to UB Tezzeret, I feel like my decklist was extremely well equipped to deal with the decks that mattered at the tournament. I say "that mattered" because I don't expect to run into UB Tezzeret at large events. The odds of it are low. But I was really happy with the deck's performance vs. the Delver decks, and it was nice to have a chance to play against Slivers for the first time. Slivers, what a cool deck for legacy!
Going forward I honestly wouldn't change anything. The only change I might consider is swapping out Vendilion Clique in the sideboard, for Containment Priest. But let me tell you, MD Pyro/Red blasts with more in the board against Delver is amazing. Even though Reid Duke loves his creatureless version with Dig Through Time, I feel main deck Pyro/Red blasts are superior. And I think the only creature you need main deck is Snapcaster Mage to flashback your 1 mana "kill" spells essentially keeping them off of creatures the entire game. I think Snapcaster Mage is superior also to the Vendilion Clique, legendary creatures version Joe Lossett plays. I feel like the deck runs smoother having the ability to flashback important spells multiple times rather than drawing the legendary creatures. Just my two cents, even though Reid Duke and Joe Lossett play a whole lot more magic than I do and I'll be rooting for them in the upcoming Grand Prix.
Last edited by drocker23; 11-13-2014 at 09:44 AM.
Did not really follow the miracles thread recently and also not test any non delve deck.
My question is if anyone considered going back to the RIP-helm build based on the meta developments?
Currently playing: Elves
I'm not interested in it at all. Waaayyy too clunky, and honestly, Delve isn't enough of a reason to bring in RIP.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
Enchantment "Miracles" does not deserve to be categorized as "Miracles" in my opinion. The way it plays is just so different than this deck. Miracles is a finesse control deck that requires you not play your answers at the right time until you can begin to take over in the mid and late game. The RIP/Helm control deck plays a bunch of clunky enchantments that do very little by themselves in most matchups but are good if you can assemble your voltron combos.
Just brainstorming...
Before Khans miracles was the best deck in the format. Don't think that's true anymore.
Myself and others feel they probably beat it with their version of Delve...
Concerning clunky/different playstyle.
I started with Miracles because Einjerher introduced me to his RIP build waaayy back. Of course we changed soon but it did not feel "bad".
Sure, you need to reduce other clunk and cannot leverage snapcaster, but I am not sure if Delve isn't enough of a reason to try it again.
Playstyle is really similar imo.... some different interactions, but it's clearly just another version of the deck...
Currently playing: Elves
I agree with you on the MD Blasts part, and... that's about it. Do you not play Karakas for budget reasons? Even Ponder build would run 1 Karakas. That land does a lot of work against Sneak and Show.
If you lean so much on Red, having a mountain in your 75 deserves a discussion at the least. The problem with Snapcaster is that you can try to lean toward it, and have it blasted by opponent on stack. Also, it doesn't block a flipped Delver or threshold mongoose (not that people play with that card anymore).
Perhaps it's just me, but I don't understand where this assessment is coming from. I use to get bum rushed by RUG Delver, trying to fight off threats while playing around Stifle and Wasteland. Now, I don't have to worry about Mongoose or Stifle anymore. If people want to durdle around until they can reach threshold so they can play a spell to gain CA, but not play a threat, isn't that slower than the alternative?
this actually isnt true. the ponder list runs 10 fetches, 3 tundras, 2 volcs, an a 4/2 island/plains split. all he did was add a third volcanic. karakas is great in some lists but you dont run it just for sneak and show matchups. you run it when you are reid duke or when you're maindecking legendary creatures (venser/ clique) to bounce.
Karakas is land slot 22 and 23. Ponder list runs 21. Its also decent vs lands, and great vs reanimator and death and taxes.
They banned Top, so now I play Grixis Delver.
I think it was just Einherjer who advocated running basic plains over Karakas. It's been a singleton staple since the beginning. With so many basics in the deck, you don't even need Clique to run it for basically free. Almost every 2 color deck is going to fit a value land in there somewhere, and Academy Ruins does nothing here.
Whether or not that sixth nonbasic is actually free...that's debatable.
There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3 guests)
Reply With Quote