I still need to do some testing, but the basis of why I include her in my list is that she's a GSZable bomb that provides both utility AND raw power, much like PrimeTime and SwagTusk. In fact, I'd say she would eventually replace Sigarda in Junk lists due to her ability to play around spot removal without neglecting offensive potential.Originally Posted by uncletiggy
What are the specific matchups do you want sideboarding help for? I can't realistically post a guide for every viable deck in Legacy.
Toxic Deluge is the nut out of the board. Massacre was great as a metagame call. I expected a lot of Stoneforge/TNN decks and Death and Taxes while also being a card I'm happy to board in vs Elves and Delver. Also Bile Blight is garbage. You can do better in Legacy than a hard to cast, 2 mana spot removal spell.
RE: Titania-
I've been playing her a lot in Maverick and Lejay's Choke Stompy deck and she is incredibly powerful in the right circumstances. However, outside a build dedicated to her, I don't see her place in Nic Fit. She's very strong in decks with potential to abuse her with Wasteland and that can protect her such as the decks I mentioned earlier. Nic Fit does neither of those things. What Nic Fit wants in a late-game bomb is resiliency, something Titania doesn't have. She will not replace Sigarda or even Thragtusk.
Basically I'm interested on those that are common in my area: miracles (above all), elves, d&t, ur/uwr delver (with thousands of treasure cruise) and stoneforge decks
Just to understand how you prepared your sb
Thanks!
P.S. my sideboard right now is
3 reb
2 surgical
3 carpet of flowers
1 garruk relentless
2 slaughter game
1 maelstrom pulse
3 thoughtseize
From a theory-crafting perspective this statement makes no freaking sense. How does a 5/3 that dies to lightning bolt have better evasion than a creature with hexproof and has flying?
Also dont forget thats Sigarda makes you pox/liliana proof.
I think i would never replace Sigarda for Titania, altough i can see myself running her/both in a Banza list, or other lists for that matter.
She seems to put some nice pressure and getting back utility land or even a fetch to get some token generation going.
Maybe something along with running Kotr and Loam might be pretty cool with Titania. I also want to abuse Wastelands, Bojuka Bog and such in some kind of list. Might slam together a list next week and see how it goes.
There has been some discussion, but i haven't bothered to read back yet. Currently i am more focussed on another deck im taking out for a spin coming weekend at a LGS.
Last edited by Bobmans; 11-29-2014 at 03:08 AM.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Unless they kill her in response to the etb trigger to return a fetch to the board AND you don't have a fetch already on board, you'll always get at least one 5/3 in response to her dying. And she also plays around Liliana and Smallpox as well, except you can just sacrifice the token instead of Titania.
The biggest difference between the two is whether they are defensive or offensive. Titania can go wide rather easily with multiple 5/3s, making it a really good option for offensive potential. Sigarda, on the other hand, can fly, which is better defensively than offensively in a meta full of Delvers, and doesn't worry about any kind of spot removal other than Council's Judgment.
You do realize that your argument is horrid? Every player is going to use spot removal to get rid of titania with the EtB trigger on the stack. Secondly, you do realize a 5/3 dies to a flipped delver? On top of that, you also in order to get value out of titania (multiple 5/3s) you need to already have cards like fetchlands or wastelands in play. I feel that ensuring you have a perfect board state to abuse titantia will slow you down enough to where you will end up losing games because you aren't focused on winning and more so making an army of 5/3s.
As I said previously, stop talking about how great you think titania is and how it will replace all of our high CMC bombs. Put her in a deck, playtest the gauntlet with a minimum of 50 games, and then tell me how she performed. Until then, its absolutely pointless discussing something that hasn't been tested. Everyone that has posted how great titania is doesn't know that yet and I have answered by a counteracted theory-craft. Good luck in play testing with her, but its a card I feel will have minimum impact in any version of Nic Fit and would be a waste of time trying to incorporate.
As much as you wish to use reason as a basis for communication, you are arguing with the innovator of the recent "Whale Fit". If the combination of Palinchron and Recurring Nightmare instilled fear in your heart, wait until you see what havoc Titania will wreak in his latest list.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
This may be the greatest thing I've ever read. I've been wanting to do that for so long.
See my signature -- and this http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ht=#post713457
Follow me on Twitter @RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
Cool: so y'all are attempting to invalidate what my argument by bringing up shit I said well over a year ago, back when I obviously didn't know what I was talking about?
Guess it doesn't matter though: whatever I say will just be dismissed, and I honestly don't care anymore. The one archetype where there is still room for so much innovation, yet no one wants to explore new options.
I dont personally care what you said a year ago. Im just curious how titania is any better then rampaging baloths? Its slower to make tokens it is removed by bolt and karakas for only one less mana. If you want to innovate go for it but innovate with a purpose. That purpose has to be solving a problem not polishing a turd. Titania is not fundamentally good in a red meta. Try your list with baloth if you want to explore making tokens with land drops. It certainly better with titan and explorer and you dont have to play safekeeper. Id also cut a deluge and play two nissas over the deluge and the safe keeper. Tweek the lands and tune the board to beat combo.
The purpose is giving Nic Fit decks a method of closing the game out quickly once they've established control. Only Scapewish has something even remotely like that in the form of Valakut, and that requires sacrificing your ability to fight combo to run the Jund color scheme.
Titania, as long as there is a fetch on the board or in your grave when she etbs, always gets at least 10 power on the board before she's removed, and if she is, that's another one of your bombs that isn't getting removed or your face that isn't getting burned. That's a two turn clock otherwise, much like Grave Titan+tokens or PrimeTime+Twin Treetop Village that have been explored in the past.
Also, 3GG vs 4GG is a really big thing for nic fit, just as 3 CMC vs 4CMC is a thing for most other Legacy decks. Titania also doesn't have to wait to generate a significant amount of power, with or without Safekeeper (as an aside, Safekeeper is there to protect Teeg in certain matchups first, not to make an army with Titania).
I just wanted to add that I think the general attitude towards titania is too skeptical compared to my testing. Maybe it has a place in nic fit, and maybe not, i dont know. But what i do know is that cranking out 10 power on turn 2 with an orcish lumberjack, while doubling as.a replacement for crucible of worlds, is pretty good. Sure you can bolt both of them, that means 2 cards less and 6 damage u don't have to worry about.
I've had several people ask about sideboarding with Punishing Nic Fit. Instead of replying to everybody individually, I'm just going to post some general guidelines here.
First off, we'll use my GP NJ list for reference:
// Deck: Punishing Nic Fit (60)
// Lands
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
3 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
// Creatures
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Veteran Explorer
// Spells
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Golgari Charm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Punishing Fire
4 Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
Let's dive in to some of the more requested matchups:
Miracles:
I consider this matchup pretty favorable, though you have to play very fast. Winning game one is the most important part of the matchup as you're very unlikely to finish three full games. You have all the tools necessary to defeat them. Punishing Fires keep Jace in check and sit on Deeds for Entreat. You should almost never use a Deed for anything else in this matchup. Decays keep Counterbalance off the table so your Fires ping away uninterrupted and use Therapy to force through your threat/Deed. Avoid setting off Explorers if at all possible. They're great at chipping away their life total game one but that's about it. You have far more hard to deal with threats than they have answers for so you'll eventually stick something to kill them with (usually a Thrun). Kessig Wolf run is also fantastic as it makes them need an answer for literally every creature you play.
Post sideboard you get to remove a lot of garbage and bring in some huge gamebreakers. Out come most Explorers, Ooze, EWit and in come Slaughter Games, REBs, and K-Grip. I usually trim down on the PFires as well unless they're the creature heavy version with Cliques, Venser, and Snapcasters. The game plan is much the same post board, except you have the capability of locking them out of the game entirely. Slaughter Games get rid of their few win cons and that's that. Just beware of some spicy ones some Miracles players have access to. Try not to get blown out by random Keranos and Baneslayers and you should be fine.
Elves:
Doesn't look so bad on paper, pretty tough in actual gameplay as they're a very resilient little deck. You have to disrupt their hand AND the board. One or the other is simply not good enough. The trick is some good Therapies on their big cards (NO, Glimpse) and nuking their board with Deed. If you can maneuver the game to that state before you die, you stand a very good chance of winning. Punishing Fires will keep their board in check from that point and a fatty can play cleanup.
Post board things get a bit better with access to more sweepers, hand disruption, and Slaughter Games. You can trim a couple Explorers, a Liliana because she's very slow (I like keeping a couple to deal with possible Progenitus), Pulse for the same reason of being slow, Thrun, etc.. Gameplan remains the same, you just have a lot more ways to get the job done.
Death and Taxes:
A very favorable matchup, slow/grindy creature decks are the kind I designed this deck to prey on. Your decks strategy is inherently strong against them, you have Explorers to combat their mana denial, Therapy for their bigger threats (Stoneforge into BSkull), and PFires and Deeds for all of their dudes.
Things only get better post board as you get to bring in additional sweepers and a K-Grip. They bring in things like RIP so it's important to trim on some of the less necessary graveyard reliant cards like Witness and Ooze. Not much else to say, it's a very good matchup.
UR/UWR Delver, UWR Stoneblade etc:
Again, very strong matchups that this deck preys upon. None of them are capable of beating an active PFire on a reasonable boardstate and high enough life total. Deed, Liliana, any fatty etc. etc. All things they can't beat. People are afraid of Treasure Cruise but there's really no need to be. They get to draw three cards that don't do anything in the matchup. Three cards that our deck invalidates. Big whoop.
REBs and additional sweepers post board. GGs.
Those were the matchups that were specifically requested. If anybody has any other matchups they need help with, just ask.
I also had the idea of using of using orcish lumberjack with Titania. I abandoned it though, because I felt like it would be too much of a blowout if Titania got countered. Feel free to test it out though.
The place where I would start with Titania is as a combo finish in something like junk fit with sylvan safekeeper to protect her. You may just be able to run her with just kotr, so that you can activate kotr, search up a fetch, and crack the fetch in response to a removal spell.
I also had the idea of using of using orcish lumberjack with Titania. I abandoned it though, because I felt like it would be too much of a blowout if Titania got countered. Feel free to test it out though.
The place where I would start with Titania is as a combo finish in something like junk fit with sylvan safekeeper to protect her. You may just be able to run her with just kotr, so that you can activate kotr, search up a fetch, and crack the fetch in response to a removal spell. I'm not sure it's a better combo that say thune + feeder, but it's nice that oth creatures ca be fetched with gsz.
I'd like to add that another thing you can do with Titania is establish a wasteland lock with karakas.
that's nice, but it's another deck, not nic fit... in nic fit you definetly don't want play wasteland and slow your manacurve.
I will write a report when I am less tired but I won my local IQ
http://mtgpulse.com/event/18566#261705
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