[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Surfkatt]

Actually, Surfkatt, the tournament is in Hatboro, PA ;)

Here is the top 8 of the event that Surfkatt won. http://mtgpulse.com/event/18566#261705

edit: As for your sideboard, I think you should do: -3 pyroblast, +2 thoughtseize, +1 duress. The plan is to just overload on hate for the combo matchup. What do you think?

-Brett

I figured it was you Brett. I think that's what I will try at Legacy this week. Where did I say the event took place?

[Stomping Grounds G&H]

Your post said it took place in New Jersey, a closer description would be "just outside of Philadelphia".

[Strassbaw]

Great games Nick (coming from Mark the Maverick player in the Semifinals.)

I wanted to discuss the option of Toxic Deluge from the board. This card was an Ace in our matchup as you could cast a wish and still kill Gadock teeg in play with the Toxic Deluge option. If teeg is a threat in a local meta, I suggest many other use Toxic Deluge to combat that. Innocent blood would not have been enough as I had multiple dorks on board. I like the list that you played and I wish you luck in your next events. Great tournament report.

[Surfkatt]

Your post said it took place in New Jersey, a closer description would be "just outside of Philadelphia".

Close enough

Great games Nick (coming from Mark the Maverick player in the Semifinals.)

I wanted to discuss the option of Toxic Deluge from the board. This card was an Ace in our matchup as you could cast a wish and still kill Gadock teeg in play with the Toxic Deluge option. If teeg is a threat in a local meta, I suggest many other use Toxic Deluge to combat that. Innocent blood would not have been enough as I had multiple dorks on board. I like the list that you played and I wish you luck in your next events. Great tournament report.

Yeah, the deluge was awesome for me. Deed does the same thing but it is slower and non-tutorable. Thanks man !

[Paranoid__Android]

Based on what you have, and what your meta consists of as you describe here, I recommend the following:

61 Main
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Knight of the Reliquary (to tutor your singleton Karakas and Maze of Ith Game 1)
1 Obstinate Baloth (highly suggest Siege Rhino over this)
1 Thragtusk (not running this with the Two Towers is a cardinal sin of Nic Fit in my experience :P)
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Primeval Titan

4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top (if using Toxic Deluge, highly suggest 2 Sylvan Library over this instead)
1 Diabolic Intent

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Pernicious Deed (highly suggest 3 Toxic Deluge over this in your meta)

1 Dryad Arbor (personal preference and definitely the 61st Card if ya want to trim down to 60)
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats (lightly suggest 2 Windswept Heath over this: I prefer green fetches to black fetches)
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Maze of Ith

15 Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Containment Priest (if you can't get it, use 2 Rest in Peace instead)
2 Ethersworn Canonist (for Belcher and possibly Jund)
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 "Sweepers" (for Jund, Merfolk, and combo token swarms)

Siege Rhinos, C. Priests and Toxic Deluges are my next investment. For sure! Then the decklist will be updated with those cards. In side, ''sweepers'' like Engineered Plague/Explosives...?

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Siege Rhinos, C. Priests and Toxic Deluges are my next investment. For sure! Then the decklist will be updated with those cards. In side, ''sweepers'' like Engineered Plague/Explosives...?

In your Elfless meta, Id go with something like Deed here (or Deluge, depends on which one you main). Kinda strange for me though: I usually have some number of Thalia here for the combo matchups.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

EDIT: Also, if you can afford it, Thoughtseize might serve you better than IoK in the side.

[Ralf]

Actually, Surfkatt, the tournament is in Hatboro, PA ;)

Here is the top 8 of the event that Surfkatt won. http://mtgpulse.com/event/18566#261705

edit: As for your sideboard, I think you should do: -3 pyroblast, +2 thoughtseize, +1 duress. The plan is to just overload on hate for the combo matchup. What do you think?

-Brett

Access to black sources is an equation no one (among Scapeshifter) has ever solved.
It is easier to have access to red souces or green sources.

Discard is a proactive way to fight combo decks.
But you really need some reactive play to come along your proactive ones or you are bound to die to a strong top deck.
Few contenders are a 2 cards combo decks (S&T), some do not care about discard (ANT & PiF plan) and some are packing some strong discard hate (Omnishow & Leylines).


@Surfkatt: Gratz !

I'm glad someone tried out the lone Militant in the SB.
I've been a very strong advocate for it since a couple of months (in multiple Nic Fit shells).

[Surfkatt]

Access to black sources is an equation no one (among Scapeshifter) has ever solved.
It is easier to have access to red souces or green sources.

Discard is a proactive way to fight combo decks.
But you really need some reactive play to come along your proactive ones or you are bound to die to a strong top deck.
Few contenders are a 2 cards combo decks (S&T), some do not care about discard (ANT & PiF plan) and some are packing some strong discard hate (Omnishow & Leylines).


@Surfkatt: Gratz !

I'm glad someone tried out the lone Militant in the SB.
I've been a very strong advocate for it since a couple of months (in multiple Nic Fit shells).

Thanks! The Lone Militant was very very strong as I said. Really gives some game against some of out bad matchups. I will admit that black is not the easiest color to get turn one but I also feel like pyroblast is not very strong. Out of all my games I never really ever wanted a pyroblast/ had the mana up to cast pyroblast. Sure the dream scenario is to counter a cruise but alot of the time that means you did not deploy a threat the turn previous. This deck is very mana hungry.

Given that the deck can get screwed on black very easy maybe something free like surgical extraction would be the way to go.

[jbone2016]

Access to black sources is an equation no one (among Scapeshifter) has ever solved.
It is easier to have access to red souces or green sources.

Discard is a proactive way to fight combo decks.
But you really need some reactive play to come along your proactive ones or you are bound to die to a strong top deck.
Few contenders are a 2 cards combo decks (S&T), some do not care about discard (ANT & PiF plan) and some are packing some strong discard hate (Omnishow & Leylines).


@Surfkatt: Gratz !

I'm glad someone tried out the lone Militant in the SB.
I've been a very strong advocate for it since a couple of months (in multiple Nic Fit shells).

I've had some success with the militant in the board. Funny as hell vs dredge and somewhat decent with the cruise decks. In addition to the one Drs main.

[Paranoid__Android]

In your Elfless meta, Id go with something like Deed here (or Deluge, depends on which one you main). Kinda strange for me though: I usually have some number of Thalia here for the combo matchups.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

EDIT: Also, if you can afford it, Thoughtseize might serve you better than IoK in the side.

Then Deed/Toxic Deluge singleton. And 1 (??) Thalia?
I have 3x Tseizes in my collection. :D

EDIT: Tested against Monoblack Obliterator and classic Bant tempo. Both games won 2:0 with this build from the cards I own. And one huge missplay against Bant G1. If I ever doubt what my opponent has in his hand, always name Brainstorm with Cabal if you go first. Haha! :D (he had 2x in openning hand)

[SevenInTheQueue]

Going to be taking Punishing Fit to SCG Portland this weekend. I'm a little worried about Marit Lage though. Any suggestions?

Also recently broke my SCooze record last Sunday, with a 19/19 Ooze racing a Griselbrand owned by my dredge opponent.

[MD.Ghost]

Going to be taking Punishing Fit to SCG Portland this weekend. I'm a little worried about Marit Lage though. Any suggestions?

Also recently broke my SCooze record last Sunday, with a 19/19 Ooze racing a Griselbrand owned by my dredge opponent.

I use 2x Pithing Needle, 1x Karakas and 3x Surgical Extraction (and 2x Slaughter Games) as my sideboard choices against "Dark Depths-Loam-Decks".

[Ricardio]

I use 2x Pithing Needle, 1x Karakas and 3x Surgical Extraction (and 2x Slaughter Games) as my sideboard choices against "Dark Depths-Loam-Decks".

Brood mate and lilly are your friends in this matchup. Slaughter can't name lands.

[Ralf]

Going to be taking Punishing Fit to SCG Portland this weekend. I'm a little worried about Marit Lage though. Any suggestions?

Also recently broke my SCooze record last Sunday, with a 19/19 Ooze racing a Griselbrand owned by my dredge opponent.

I'm using 2 Diabolic edict MD vs S&T and Marit lage strategy.
My list is in the first page of the primer. It is tuned for a very mixed field (Fair/Unfair) as I don't like banking my ass on G2 & G3 against unfair decks.

When I was playing Scape, I was MDecking a karakas. I guess this is another good option to go along with Primeval Titan. 2 birds one stone: as just adding a karakas doubles up your chance to have either a Titan or a Karakas in hand.

However, Karakas is unreliable against Marit as those decks tend to pack a lot of wasteland.


PS: I'm usually very unlucky when playing fair decks as I always meet the 4 or 5 guys playing combo at my LGS...

[bryanzoll]

Conclusion on testing with Dualcaster Mage:
I have play tested with Dualcaster mage in ScapeWish (playing it as a mid-range deck 1st, combo as an additional wincon) extensively enough (around 50 matches) against a delver / elves / miracle / storm gauntlet and have came to the conclusion that it just isn't worth having.

Pros:

• Copying spells such as Treasure Cruise
• Acts as a counterspell against Force of Will allowing you to push through spells
• Is good at removing a creature (via copying spell) and acting as a chump blocker

Cons:

• Very situational based
• Used as a reactive spell instead of being a proactive spell
• Need to leave mana open at end of turn
• I never really found a situation where DCM would have made an impact on a game-state
• I never wanted a DCM until turn 5 at a minimum, it sucked drawing one in the opening hand and not being able to use it for anything

I have changed out the 2 DCMs for an Eternal Witness and Scavenging Ooze and increased my GSZ count back to 4. I am having more consistency with the deck now and it plays better (for the style I play with ScapeWish).

*Most broken thing I was able to do with DCM: Opponents TC on the stack, flash in DCM, copy TC, draw 3, counter opponents TC with newly drawn pyroblast.

If anyone has any other results with testing DCM, let me know so we can compare.

[Ralf]

So it's been 3 weeks since I am working on a BUG Nic Fit shell.

Here is where I am at the moment:

Sultai Control Fit by Ralf

Main Deck

20 lands

4 Swamp
2 Island
2 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted delta
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea

12 creatures

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Baleful Strix
2 Glen Elendra Archmage

2 Jace, The Mindsculptor

2 Sensei's divining top

3 Pernicious deed

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
1 Empty the Pits

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Ponder
1 Maelstrom Pulse

Sideboard:

1 Vendilion Clique
1 Thragtusk
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Engineered Plague
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge


Summary:

This is a hard control deck akin Miracle. Don't expect to win fast. Every match is a grind. But you have access to powerful tools to either clog the board or to keep it empty.
You can win from nowhere in oneshot by resolving an Empty the Pits but usually you'll be killing with a bunch of 1/1, a Glen Elendra or a Jace.
Remember 20 cards in the yards = 10 zombie token at INSTANT SPEED.
This deck was built to abuse the former (akin Entreat in Miracle). I used to playing 2 but you only have just one shot:
- It resolves, you win
- It does not, you won't likely be able to recast one.


Choice's explanations

Lands

Well I've stretched it up to the maximum. 19 lands might be doable but you'll have to shave a baleful strix for another ponder and you'll also have to replace a basic by another dual to keep the magical numbers:
14 blue sources to be able to cast a blue cantrip by T1
14 black sources to be able to cast a DRS/Cabal Therapy by T1
13 green sources to be able to cast a Veteran/Abrupt Decay by T2

The particularity of this deck is to always go after basics. You will often need to play Pernicious Deed at least for 3 no later than Turn 6. 4 swamps are to:
- lure your opponent about the deck you are playing
- be able to reliably cast Empty the Pits.


Creatures

4 Veteran -> the core

3 Deathrite shaman -> the swiss army knife. You'll use far more often the "2 ping you" or "2 gain life" than the mana ability. Not to mention his ability to make you play around soft counters when it matters. I've played without Shaman for a while (because of Pernicious Deed) but the life gain ability & the ability to work around soft counters & grave strategies are a must given the current meta.

3 Baleful Strix -> Clogs the board and helps to advance the game into the midgame, requires answer from your opponent. Also good vs huge demon. Can be a therapy fodder when it has to. Replaces himself. Not so hot against red decks but at least it is a bolt or kind of a shock/forked you won't take in the face.

2 Glen Elendra Archmage -> Another flying "undying" blocker. MVP of multiple matchups whenever you get to resolve her. Her ability to protect any of your big spells (be it your game ending spell or a sweeper) or to have the "last word" against any game ending spell your opponent might want to play (entreat, bolt, Jace etc...) is far beyond imagining. Virtual CA with wings, she will be your main beater.


Planewalker

2 Jace, the Mindsculptor -> His major contender is Liliana of the Veil. I had a hard time to choose between the two of them. Jace makes up 2 more blue cards to be pitched to Force of Will (17 blue cards including Jace, 15 was definitely on the low end side). We all know about Jace & Liliana issues anyway. One can kill not the other, both are good to keep a board clear when facing only one threat. Cabal therapy + Jace works. Liliana's +1 ability can be painful until you have a sensei...
The major drawback is being blue with all the blue hate in the format at the moment.

However, having tested both a lot, I do think Jace, still, has a very light edge over Liliana. I won't lie saying that casting Jace is harder than casting Liliana. Higher risk, higher reward.


Digging/Fixing Suits

4 Brainstorm -> the core

2 Ponder -> I'm still pondering (pun intended) whether we should play ponder n°3 instead of Baleful Strix n°3. The ability to dig for answer with such a control deck is REAL as well as the ability to fix some low land keepable hands. I have died to unanswered delver a good share amount of time (or to whatever situation) a baleful strix could not answer. It is also inherently half a zombie token as soon as you've played it. Still, I have not found this equation's clue. One can also argue that with this 1-of sideboard strategy, ponder should be the way to go...

2 Sensei's divining top -> Akin miracles, you will need to hide your spell or to look, fetch, look again, fetch again, look again etc...


Nuking the world

3 Pernicious Deed -> Well we play Nic Fit for nuking the world. Unfortunately, this deck is usually not about making any advantage of it. Sure, you will somehow catch average players by 2/3 for 1 them. But usually, you'll nuke 1 for 1 or 2 for 2 etc... I haven't found any better replacement for Pernicious Deed as it also acts as a preventive way for being entreated etc...

3 Abrupt Decay -> The 4th is in the sideboard. Staple nothing more to say.

1 Maelstrom Pulse -> Catch all.

2 Golgari charm -> Special hate for token strategy, 1/1 swarm (Elfes), tricks with Strix (pun intended). Faster than toxic deluge, can hit enchantments (Eidolon, Counterbalance, Sneak attack etc...) and deals with THE annoyance named "True Name Nemesis" (pun intended)


I do apologize for the wall of text.
I hope some of you will "commit" into this deck (or even give any valuable feedbacks) as I really believe the hard control route is the way to make BUG Nic Fit a 1,5 tier deck.
I'm pretty sure their are a lot of roads to be explored (such as other sideboard options or main deck options aka Cunning Wish)

Moving forward I will explore the Cunning wish option to free some space in the MD among:
- 1 Empty the Pits
- 1 Force of Will
- 1 Golgari charm
etc...

Last word: if you are not a "do nothing" type of player, don't pick up this deck.

Thanks for reading.

[Stomping Grounds G&H]

What about sideboarding Sphere of Resistance against the noninteractive decks?

[SevenInTheQueue]

Came 25th in SCG Portland. Deck was gas. Will post my list/report when I get home

[The Crow's Eye]

Question about BRG Punishing Nic Fit:

Is Liliana something I should go ahead and pick up if I plan to play the deck?

In looking for a second mana source, DRS is the correct choice due to its other abilities in addition to tapping for mana (I run 8 fetches)?

[SevenInTheQueue]

Question about BRG Punishing Nic Fit:

Is Liliana something I should go ahead and pick up if I plan to play the deck?

In looking for a second mana source, DRS is the correct choice due to its other abilities in addition to tapping for mana (I run 8 fetches)?

I like having Lilianas, although they tend to come out a lot in the current Young Pyromancer meta. DRS is a nice fun-of to snag off of GSZ. Helps chip away when the board is clogged, and the life gain is spicy.