Hes holding a Lotus Petal.Originally Posted by oliverpool
In the same vein of thought, he could be holding the candle thing that Enlightened Tutor is holding. I forgot that Lotus petal in painter is a thing.
Last edited by Nuke is Good; 12-04-2014 at 10:48 PM.
Will give the firewalker a further test this few days. With 20 lands, would it make sense to change one of the plateau to a plains instead? That way blood moon will still be a good card in the mid/late game in game 2 and 3 when you side in the white creatures? thanks for explaining your choice of cards.
Thanks for recording the stream the past 2 days! I live on the other side of the world or I would join in the stream. Its good to see the deck being played with some commentary on why a decision is being made. It helps you improve your decisions when playing this deck. Is there a way I could "save" the twitch videos on my local drive?
There are almost no match ups I've found yet where Blood Moon is still a big priority and Kor Firewalker also is. Running 4 Petals is usually enough to cast the other white cards in situations where you have Blood Moon, but if you think about where the white cards are going in, almost all of those matchups are combo decks where Blood Moon is only good turn 1 on the play.
Unsung and Anarky....whereabouts in IL are you from? If central IL, there are several Legacy events worth traveling for every month. Would be nice to have more Painters around.
I live in Danville. It's about 100 miles south of Chicago. We used to have a pretty good playgroup and would play over in Champaign at Parkland Community College for their monthly Legacy tournaments. Traveled to Gencon a bunch until they moved the Champs. Then life happened, lol. But I've tried to get back in recently, so I'm gonna try to fit in some travel to tournaments.
I live in Philly so I certainly plan to be at scg philly.
I was also wondering if anybody had suggestions for a good grindstone alter? I really am not a fan of the artwork and I love the deck so I want to make it pretty...
I live at Purdue so I'll be going to the Indianapolis open. I'll be representing some painter just not iPainter. Recruiters were to much for me lol. Would be great to meet up with you guys to if you'd like. Gotta hope one of us does well
Ps what's the twitch handle to watch his streami try to look every night but I can't seem to find him on ever....
So after watching Brad Nelson's video against Jack and just considering the current meta, here are my current thoughts...
First, you know this Ascendancy deck is going to be the new hotness. It already falls into the most common/popular color scheme for Delver and there will be different versions of this deck floating all over the place. All they have to do is jam 4 ascendancy, a few fatestitchers and a couple conclaves into any of the popular builds right now. Well, that and make the deck spell heavy. That being the case, and just given the popularity of Treasure Cruise and lightning bolt right now, we need to rethink our hate cards and/or alt. win cons. First, to all the kor firewalker people, I really don't think he's going to cut it. Straight burn and U/R strategies are dying. Ascendancy and Stoneforge decks are what's going to get played. Admittedly, I have not tried the card, but theoretically I just can't get behind it. I will say that just dropping one in your board to search for seems really bad. If you are going to go with firewalker hate, you probably need to play 3-4 of them to drop in the early turns. There is potentially still some argument for playing sphere of law as it is still really good against burn, goblins (from a few decks), and young pyromancer. Bridge seems really good right now and I could see an argument for playing 3-4 somewhere in the 75. I think the value of spellskite has gone up and is better than just fetching another welder or painter. Since bolts are the premier creature removal right now, spellskite will often eat up more than one piece of removal.
Second, RIP/Helm might have to be a thing. You have to admit that RIP is really good against a lot of strategies right now. And until treasure cruise gets the ban hammer in January (hopefully), it is so pervasive that it might require getting answered beyond blasts. I will just say that if you are going to play the RIP/Helm combo in the board, you really probably have to commit 5 slots to it (like 3 RIP and 2 Helm), otherwise it's really hard to assemble. Trust me...I've tried many many times. Obviously this combo makes welders and Daretti worse, so you can certainly start with siding those out when bringing the other combo in. You would also want to be playing 2 tutors minimum. I'm really torn on this still, as I really haven't had good luck with that combo in the past. I also like the extra benefits of cards like containment priest/grafdigger's cage/vexing shusher or whatever silver bullets you use that would have to come out to make room for the combo.
Third, all the blasts floating around in the format right now are really pissing me off. So many red blasts main, making painter on blue way worse. All the blue blast out of the board just wrecking us. I don't know that there is an answer to this, other than realizing that painter on blue is worse than it used to be, making Jaya worse as well. I do like the trick of painter on red with a sphere out. It also makes my pyrokinesis way better!
As for alt win cons, I do really like the concept of phyrexian processor against Miracles, as it's a one card combo that can hit hard and fast. the fact that it is colorless is also nice. It doesn't port over as well against other MUs the way Koth or Assemble the Legion would. But there is nothing worse than spending 5 mana on a hay-maker to have it blue blasted away. For people who are using it, please keep us updated on how successful you are with it. I guess my only issue with it is that it typically isn't going to do anything the turn it comes into play, but neither does Assemble. Again, if I decided to go all in on the RIP/Helm combo, then this would be moot anyway.
I have to agree with others on here that this deck has seen better days as far as the meta goes right now. Things would change dramatically if T.C. gets banned in January, but we can't count on that either. I think the deck is still very playable. I also think that the stock of Blood Moon will be going up again, thanks to the popularity of 3-color strategies. I really appreciate the continued active discussion on here. The Painter hive mind will certainly make this deck stay competitive at the very least.
A few notes from My testing. Been testing alot against UWR Delver, Elves, Miracles, DnT, Blade Variants, and a few Storm and SnS matches.I don't know that there is an answer to this, other than realizing that painter on blue is worse than it used to be, making Jaya worse as well. I do like the trick of painter on red with a sphere out. It also makes my pyrokinesis way better!
I have to agree with others on here that this deck has seen better days as far as the meta goes right now. Things would change dramatically if T.C. gets banned in January, but we can't count on that either. I think the deck is still very playable. I also think that the stock of Blood Moon will be going up again, thanks to the popularity of 3-color strategies. I really appreciate the continued active discussion on here. The Painter hive mind will certainly make this deck stay competitive at the very least.
I've cut Jaya at the moment, mainly because she is too damn slow. Its rare that I ever want to tutor for her with recruiter (recruit, pass, play jaya, pass actually do something with her within the 3 turns? very unlikely.) She always eats removal. She is pretty good under Bridge against SnT, but she is generally too slow for the current meta. Makes me sad :/
Daretti has been pretty solid. He was really good in the Miracles, Blade and was Ok against delver matchups. I'm not sure if I like his Discard first then draw, (instead of draw then discard.) He is really good with a Sensai's Top online.
Hammer of Purphoros is a card I've been wanting to test with against miracles for awhile. Miracles is slow and durdly that you will often have a land to sac to make a token and swing with a few times. Plus giving your welders haste and even Jaya (if you have her) isn't too bad. Its a 3 drop too, and is an artifact that can be welded. (Plus the tokens that it makes look pretty cool ;P)
Sudden Shock is great. Love this card. It is excellent against Delver, Blade and DnT. Its helped me combo out against DnT with its revoker/mom/possible flickerwisp in hand nonsense.
As far as the field maindecking blasts now, we just have to be careful on what we name color-wise with painter (as always). I have yet to encounter a huge blowout because I named blue.
Also I didn't see that Ascendency match that Jack played (love the stream by the way Jack, keep up the great work!) what was the outcome/how does it play out?
This is pretty much my meta and pretty much with what I have done to tweak the deck from 6 months ago. Is your list any different from Jack's? And if you're up for it, how are you playing these matchups given the changes to the deck?
My list is similar to jacks, except i'm running a Spellskite and I've cut Jaya for a Daretti. I also run Sudden Shocks in the Board instead of Firebolts.
UWR Delver: Watch out for Jitte as this is pretty much game over. This is why I like sudden shock because they can't pump in response to Sudden Shock. You have a decent amount of answers to Delver too. Sometimes they will waste alot of Countermagic protecting their dudes rather than disrupting your combo which is always nice. Alot of the UWR lists don't run a full 4 STP. Also blood moon is excellent in this match.
Elves: this match is 50/50 for me. There are games where I have mulled to 4 and comboed on t3. And there are times where they get the nuts. I usually like to play painter and hold the Blasts for Natural Order or Glimpse. Also Sudden Shock is great here too,as it deals problematic elves even with a wirewood symbiote on board.
Miracles: Hard match, they usually have answers for everything we do. So we want to just go aggro. I find myself only going the combo late game and if I have protection. Moon can be good, and it can be bad. Keep Counterbalance offline at all costs!
DnT: Not a terrible match, but I really hate wasteland. Bridge shines here but look out for flickerwisp as they will tear your bridge down and mess your life up. You are more favored postboard, with things like Ratchet Bomb, Burn effects. I like blood moon in the match by blanking ports,wastes and karakas.
Blade Variants: The deathblade matches are rather easy. Moon takes care of them. The esper lists are also not that bad of a match despite having basics.
Most of their guys are rather slow and wont kill us too quickly. they also tend to have less removal than their UWR Jetski Counterparts. Just watch out for Jitte!
Storm: Storm is a weird one, as its usually who goes off quicker. I really don't have much to say about it. Using blasts on cantrips slows them down and buys you alot of time. Revoker naming LED is good too.
Sneak & Show: I've yet to lose this match, G1 show and tell holding a bridge always shuts them out as they usually don't have a way out to bridge g1 (unless they play Jace, but you can revoker him) Jaya is good in this match. G2 is different as they usually bring in ways to get rid of the bridge. If you have RIP you can G-Stone them but usually I win this match with Jaya or just having a huge board state. G2 can be very grindy.
I'll write a more detailed description on some matches once I have more time to truly think about SB options and Scenarios. This is kind of rushed.
Unsunghero: I sent you a PM.
@hero
I have an EE, koth, and daretti MD but no spellskite. 3/2 petal-ssg split. Do you also run containment priest? Also recently I have been wanting either a third plateau or extra fetchland as a 20th land because I'm often drawing sol lands and no colored mana to cast the other spells in hand.
One thing I have noticed in this meta is that stompy decks have gained stock. Chalice, 3ball, and Moon (still good but not as good as earlier in the year) wreck the current meta. My friend has been getting a lot of wins with stompy like I used to with painter. This is leading me to believe painter needs to adapt to a more controlling deck and up its sources of timely card advantage or risk ever sitting in the loser bracket as long as people are playing lightning bolt and TC. Painter doesn't work in a stompy shell, tried that hybrid. Other options are sneak and breach besides stompy but none are as consistent as painter.
I agree with what you've written about MUs. I think sudden shock is now superior to firebolt bc of jittes alone. That card online is game over.
And I've read recently that people are moving away from burn and towards jeskai ascendancy in a patriot delver shell. Anyone else play against this?
I don't run Containment Priest. Its certainly good against Sneak and Derp & Elves and even DnT, I don't think Sneak and Derp is particularly unfavored, Elves its good against Natrual Order and GSZ Stops Dryad Arbor, but I think if that happens they will just try and aggro you out. DnT it just stops Vial. But against DnT & elves id rather run a Pyroclasm or Pyrokenesis and these cards are also playable against Delver decks too. There might be other decks that I'm forgetting Priest good against, but I don't think its necessary.
As for stompy shells gaining stock, I agree. I don't think Painter is too terribly positioned right now. There are just some really annoying decks in the format right now that pack alot of removal and counters. Most of them are creature based decks. We gotta have our own removal. Just gotta adapt.
I haven't run into Jet-ski ascendancy yet. I don't know anyone playing this (yet).
Creature
4 Painter's Servant
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Goblin Welder
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Spellskite
Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Grindstone
3 Lotus Petal
Instant
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Grindstone
3 Lotus Petal
1 Great Furnace
Instant
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
Planeswalker
1 Daretti, Scrap Savant
Enchantment
4 Blood Moon
Land
4 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
3 City of Traitors
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
Board
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 Trinisphere
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Pyroclasm
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 Sudden Shock
This is the list I've been running. Its a pretty stock list. As I mentioned before, Daretti has been pretty good and def warrants playing another petal over SSG. I really like Pyroclasm because it wipes the board against alot of the creature based decks that give us problems. This could also be pyrokenesis or EE. The board is very flexable right now depending on the meta that you anticipate. I think we just need to pack more things to get rid of creatures so we can buy more time to lock them out via moon/bridge or to go for the combo.
Also if you are looking for that sweet Miracles SB card, try Hammer of Purphoros, I have yet to test it, but in theory it seems super good against them. Here's some things why.
Costs 1RR, Very easy to get out, stays on Curve.
Gives creatures haste, this means you can already start welder tricks the moment you play welder.
The tokens it makes are 3/3 Artifact Enchantment Creatures which swing right away. They also have interaction with Daretti and Welders. You can also weld Hammer out.
You can make a guy by sacing City, and then playing your land.
I'm not sure this is ever a card you would want to tutor for however, and I also don't know if it would shine in other matches outside of Miracles.
None of this stuff is the end all be all. Keep testing the matches and really set your deck up for your anticipated meta. This is a deck that has a alot of great viable options and some excellent surprises.
Well, Hammer is a card that runs right into BEBs. Perhaps non-red single card "combos" are what Painter needs to overcome its slump in the current meta. Or maybe it's a good addition. This is why I love Legacy. Bin rares throw down.
Yeah, I agree with your first point. I think the processor would have distinct advantages over hammer simply due to its lack of color. I also like it because it feeds on life, not lands and you can make "18/18"s if you want to to end the game quickly. The only advantage I see with hammer is the "haste" clause which is nice with welders and Jaya. Still, I think I would got with the processor.
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Plus, it's yet another old frame card for the deck. Asthetics matter!
Processor has been pretty nuts, as an update. Still haven't found another matchup besides Miracles where it comes in though. Maybe against lands.
Is processor better than Assymble the Legion?
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