I went 2-2 at the open trial with the deck, I think I posted a bit about it on the previous page. I hope that helps. 8-) I love the fun decks!
Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
I just randomly tuned in and caught you on camera. I really like how you were baiting the stifle with the expedition map and the double pithing needle on wasteland. :) Sometimes good o'le rug is just the efficient machine it is.Originally Posted by J-Funk
I love the idea of Teferi's response. Too bad you didn' t get a blowout.
What I'm curious, how did you support chalice of the void x2? There's like ~20 CMC 1 spells in the deck. Or was your plan to set it on X=0 or X=2 or more?
Thanks! My opponent was obviously a very good player, and he picked his spots extremely well. That matchup is pretty tough already, and when you don't find any of your threats, like with me, you spend a lot of time floundering.
As far as chalice goes, I only ever set it to 0 on sunday to slow down a storm player. I'm not against setting it to 1 if it will shut down my opponent, though. We can still get there without our 1 cmc spells.
Excited that you picked up the deck Feline. If you are looking for pointers or ideas/confusions feel free to vocalize them.
I went 5-0 with this list at today's weekly event. Rounds were UWR stoneblade, UWR stoneblade, Miracles, Mono White Staxx, 12post Mirror. Only game loses were to Miracles when I misplayed horribly (no really, really really horribly), and to Mono White Staxx on their game 2 nut draw.
// Lands
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [RLM] Glacial Chasm
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Tundra
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 [M13] Augur of Bolas
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [US] Show and Tell
3 [KTK] Treasure Cruise
4 [AL] Force of Will
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 4 [ARB] Meddling Mage
SB: 4 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 2 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
SB: 1 [C13] Bane of Progress
SB: 1 [C14] Titania, Protector of Argoth
Is Augur of Bolas really the best/only option? ... I mean you only have 20 instants or sorceries in your list.
Against what match ups do you bring in Meddling Mage? Also, can anyone give insight into how to beat U/R delver and High Tide? I kept the Crop Rotations in against Feline to push out an early Primeval Titan, but she correctly countered all of them. Maybe I'd be better off with some number of Chalice of the Void in the sideboard to shut off all of the cantrips and High Tides?
Can someone please go over the miracles match up with me? It's supposed to be strongly in our favor, but damned if I don't lose every single game to them.
My best friend said I just need to learn how to play against it, then it's easy. I get entreated. I get V-cliqued. I get jace'd. Everything I try to do to prevent it or win gets countered.
Can someone give me the game plan here? Other than what's in the OP match up analysis? All input welcome and appreciated.
Worst case repeal the angel tokens, or try to get a win condition established before they can entreat for a threatening number of angels.My best friend said I just need to learn how to play against it, then it's easy. I get entreated.
Terminus and Vendillion Clique can put Eldrazis on the bottom of the library, but that doesn't really do that much when Eye of Ugin can tutor them back into your hand. Brainstorm to hide cards against Vendilion Clique if you really need to.I get V-cliqued. I get jace'd.
Repeal also helps against Jace if it is about to ultimate, but I've found that Miracle players just use Jace to Brainstorm each turn, which isn't that threatening. Are you running Pithing Needle? Name Jace.
They can't counter your land drops. Nor Emrakul. Cavern of Souls goes a long way to push through a Primeval Titan, and if they counter all of the Crop Rotations and Expedition Maps, then that increases the chances of resolving a hard casted Primeval Titan.Everything I try to do to prevent it or win gets countered.
All this is absolutly true and explained in a great way! What's your current list? Perhaps it can be improved a little bit. I returned to SDT, which allows some nice draw tricks under VC-lock. So you can assemble your lands, including Cavern a draw the Titan via the Top in your main phase (after the end-of-draw-step-clique). Normally only Venser can ruin your day at that point, but after bouncing and re-casting VC your opponent usually hasn't 4 untapped lands ;-)
It's worth noting that the hands you'd normally mull are the above average hands against Miracles. Like 2+ Cloudposts, and cards like eye, or eldeazi - which normally are virtual mulligans. They ignore all of their interaction. Top and fetching is usually all you need to see enough to win. Crop rotation is bad, side out all four. SnT is weak, repeal is so so. Play a cavern and a grip or two if you want to hate. But the MU is more about the line than changing up the cards. I think people that call it a bye are wrong, but it sure is favorable.
Pretty much these thoughts. Miracles is roughly the only deck which lets you play lands and do nothing until you win. If countertop resolves, that is mostly what you will be doing anyway.
Like Tim said, all you really need is Top to get going. Or a land heavy starting seven. Cavern of Souls has been very good and I would recommend it. I have tweaked my deck against the UR metagame with not one but two maindecked EE's and those are also very good insurance against angels. Miracles is a very good matchup but if things start to go the wrong way, you can easily lose. Venser is actually a very scary card unless you are resolving a Titan sometime soon. Ponder build is better for us.
Some of my friends sell records,
some of my friends sell drugs.
I just wanted to add something since no one else has mentioned it. You can still Flusterstorm through a Counterbalance. The original card, since you cast it, will be countered, but the Storm copies are put directly onto the stack and, as such, will still resolve normally.
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
Usually the only way that I loose to miracles is if they entreat for 3 angel tokens on turn 6 or endless vendillion clique bounces/beats. Usually they side board out terminus and/or swords to plowshares. They will also thin the number of counterbalances against us.
The most important card to "resolve" is Expedition Map. It's the must counter spell in our deck. Always search for Eye of Ugin, as they can't clique lands.
And yes, crop rotation is terribad against miracles. In game 1, your better off just not casting it ever, because there is a very high probability you will 2 for 1 yourself.
Also, the amount of dedicated hate cards against us is usually pretty sparse, its entirely possible if you deal with 1 of them, their won't be any more. Typically it's: vendillion clique, blood moon, humility, pithing needle, pyroblast and vensers.
Would love to hear how Augur of Bolas performed - and also, the Basilisk Collar in the SB?
Augur is incredibly strong. With 20 targets I have an experimental fail rate of 14%, calculated of 29%, but that doesn't involve stacking with brainstorm and thinning.
More often I wanted instant/sorceries over lands/artifacts in previous builds, so Augur serves a solid any-time purpose. I've had him eat LOADs of swords/bolts/terminus just because he is annoying as a body.
Current build runs 22 targets, so 25% calculated, should push experimental down to 11-12.
New Build is as follows:
// Lands
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [LRW] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [RLM] Glacial Chasm
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [IA] Forest (2)
// Creatures
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 [C13] Augur of Bolas
// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [GP] Repeal
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [US] Show and Tell
3 [KTK] Treasure Cruise
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 4 [ARB] Meddling Mage
SB: 4 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [C13] Bane of Progress
SB: 1 [C14] Titania, Protector of Argoth
Hello,
Only one white source of mana to cast meddling mage ? Is it enough ?
Testing without a Tundra atm. And cavern is white.
Hey J-Funk, i just had the occasion of watching your match against RUG on the SCG archives and i think you missed a line of play that would have probably won the second game. It was your 5th turn, you opponent has a flipped Delver and a Tarmo in play and all his 3 lands tapped. You untapped 2 Trops and 2 Cloudposts (1 being a Vesuva) and you have just revealed a pretty uninmpressive hand of double Crop, Show and Tell and Karakas. You topdecked Needle, played Karakas, tapped it for mana and cropped it away getting an additional Cloudpost. Until now the plan was perfect. Where you punted in my opinion was not playing the Crop, sacrifing a Tropical Island for Eye of Ugin. Remeber that you still have Karakas mana flowing and 2 untapped Cloudposts ready to provide you exactly the 7 manas you need to insta fetch an Eldrazi (and you were playing the good one, Ulamog), without having to fear Stifle. Consider this: if your opponent has Fow and opts to counter your crop, you're still left with wasteland protection and a blue land, which is enough to cast Snt in case you topdeck a Titan or an Eldrazi. If he doesn't, the the very next turn you could have played Ulamog, nuking the Delver at the very least and presenting an unsurmountable body for the Tarmo if not countered. I'm pretty sure you could have won the game in this way.
This is great feedback, but I don't think the math adds up. If I had cropped away a tropical island for an Eye of Ugin that would have left me with 1 Trop, 2 Clouposts, a Karaks, and an Eye, which is just 6 mana plus Eye. But, following your advice what I really should have done is just cropped BOTH of the tropical islands away, getting a cloudpost and an Eye, then I would have had enough to go get Ulamog and cast him the next turn. So, I think we've arrived at where I could have put a win together.
Thank you for the feedback, it goes a long way to helping me improve.
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