The problem is that WotC doesn't like easily accessible two-color lands that are anywhere near the power level of duals. It takes away too much design space for the Standard they'd be in because they'd have to look really hard at the power levels of what got printed alongside those lands. Then they'd have the problem that people would talk about that Standard for years and compare following Standards in ways that were not complimentary and high-growth sales producing.Originally Posted by Finn
The solution is simple. WotC should print some limited edition dual lands with beautiful artwork and offer them only as trade-ins for existing duals with the understanding that they were going to print Modern Masters duals with less beautiful artwork shortly thereafter, in effect removing dual lands from the reserved list in the process.
Collectors get the choice of keeping their black-bordered alphas and betas, the rest of us trade in our white-bordered unlimited and revised for the "you can only get them this way foils (or whatever)" and both Modern and Legacy get an influx of real duals in the process. The price of duals goes down, with the exception of alpha, beta and presumably the traded-in-for foils (or whatever) and both eternal formats gain a major influx of players.
The Modern Masters with the new duals is the best selling Magic set of all time and it never touches Standard at all, preserving the "purity" and design space of the environment. The stores get to both trade-in their existing duals for presumably equally lucrative limited editions preserving their value in the deal and also sell Modern Masters.
Win for WotC, win for the stores, win for collectors and players for the most part, huge wins for Modern and Legacy.
If they don't want to reprint duals because of the reserved list, there's an easy option that would make Legacy much cheaper: legendary dual lands printed in a commander precon. With all the fetches going around, you could feasibily play a mana base with 2 of those each (in a tricolored deck) and the rest of all fetches, with a real dual in between for example. It's simple, it would decrease costs a lot without devaluing old duals because they'd be still strictly better (but almost equivalent with fetches) and it would make a lot of money for them because everyone would be buying those precons.
Or they could print situationally better duals like Horizon Canopy, but they're too lazy for that. A complete cycle of the canopy lands would be a good start. Then there could be a lot of options for legacy-playable duals like:
Super Pain Land
Land
T: add B or R to your mana pool. Both players lose 1 life.
Coin Land
Land
ETB tapped.
T: add U or B to your mana pool.
If you started the game second, you may add a coin counter to this land as it ETB.
Remove a coin counter: add 1 of any color to your mana pool.
Recycle Land
Land
T: add 1 to your mana pool
T: add G or W to your mana pool. Use this ability only if there are no cards in all graveyards.
T: Exile target card from a graveyard.
Or even just good lands that promote mono-color to compete with dual slots like:
Anti-screw land
Land
When ETB, reveal the top 4 cards of your library. You may choose a basic land from them, add it to your hand, and put the rest on the bottom of the library in any order.
T: add 1.
Library of Baghdad
Land
T: add 1 to your mana pool.
T: draw a card, then discard a card. Use this ability only if you have exactly 7 cards in your hand.
Moon
Land
T: add 2 to your mana pool. Use this ability only if you control at least a basic land.
This Fate Reforged thread is now about Obligatory Shitty Duals Creation Contest. But I'd love if this discussion on dual continue. Will anybody start a new thread? Or should it be copied/moved to the Reprints thread?
Speaking of Fate Reforged and fetches, I'm surprised they didn't reprint the ZEN ones so that the numbers of fetches available grow for the all colors. Maybe in the last set?
Or MM2015.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
The last set is going to build an own rotation block with Magic 2015, so it would sense to put Zendikar fetches into it.
I hope a bunch more value cards will see print in fate reforged. Otherwise, all the value will be soaked up by Ugin, which will be a $$$ card due to commander and standard. I'm not sure how that card would fair in modern tron; but it's likely to see play in turbo eldrazi and mud even if its just experimental at first.
I also hope that there will be new 1 drop hybrid cards that make Pillar of the Paruns better. I would really like to see Pillar of the Paruns in legacy, but that would require more than just Deathrite Shaman in the 1 CC department. Being able to play with cards that normally would be impossible to put together due to anti-synergetic color requirements gives us so much deck design space.
They aren't shitty though. Those are fine quick examples of how simple it is to make stuff to take the pressure off of duals in some cases and replace them entirely in others.This Fate Reforged thread is now about Obligatory Shitty Duals Creation Contest...
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
Well, they aren't exactly good examples either. To the point, duals will never and cannot be replaced. But perhaps, why not Snow-covered duals. Keeps everybody happy: players and RL.
Of course this will never happen, I know...
Honestly, I sometimes wonder if I am the only one who would be okay with the reserved list cards being banned. I also wonder how the format would look like: Modern with Force of Will and Brainstorm?
Not quite. You erase strategies which use lifepoints as a resource
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To get back on topic. Soulflayer looks interesting. Low delve cost, and depending on what other creatures you're playing could result in useful abilities that match the rest of your strategy. Gurmag Angler could be a dumb beater for a single black. Not mind boggling, but there may be possible roles.
Soulflayer does look interesting, indeed. EDIT: part of what I hate about Delve is that it isn't a "build-around-me" mechanic, just something that incidentally works to reduce the cost of spells as you do things you'd be doing anyway (casting spells, cracking fetches, etc etc). So by making a dude that can cop some of the abilities of guys that ended up in the bucket, you start actually creating a reason to play Delve spells as more than an afterthought. It is still a bad idea to Delve away your whole deck, but if you can also just make an uber 4/4 like Soulflayer and just copy good abilities, it becomes more worth the trouble. Gah, in Standard with stupid Gods in the main, fairly easy to at least get a 4/4 Indestructible for 2 out of the deal. Trampleflying incidentally off of the other almost playable Delve guys as well; so, yeah, not half bad really.
Manifest looks like it could be pretty busted with low CC creatures with drawback. (Manifest = take a card from a zone (so far just the library) and put it on the battlefield as a face-down creature. If it is a creature you can turn it face up any time by paying its casting cost). The cheapest spoiled one so far is, Manifest the top card of your library - so it still requires the old-gold deck stackers to really shine. Wonder how that works with Flicker effects and non-creature things; can I cheat a big enchantment into play for
Dash is fun only because I always kinda liked the old Viashino Sligh type things. A strong enough Dash effect would be a good way to play repeater with ETB triggers or that other "only okay in Standard" thing, Raid.
On Topic:
Manifest and Dash are both actually pretty interesting. I don't know how good an individual card has to be to make it worth it though.
Off-Topic:
So Control and Storm Combo?
Soulflayer looks rather amusing in Standard and Modern, but I'm not sure about its applications in Legacy. I can see something hilarious about delving Vampire Nighthawk and Sigarda, Host of Herons, as that would give you a flying, lifelinking, Deathtouching, hexproof creature. Add in any God card and you can give it indestructible, too.
In addition, I smell an underrated card in Jeskai Sage, at least in Standard.
Yes. If the Manifest'd card is a permanent card and it's flickered it remains on the battlefield face-up. If it's a sorcery/instant, when it's turned face-up by an effect it's immediately exiled. So, Cloudshift your Manifest'd Omnipotence, and you get an Omnipotence.Wonder how that works with Flicker effects and non-creature things; can I cheat a big enchantment into play for
Manifesting a Phyrexian Dreadnaught could be fun. Flips face-up for only one mana and doesn't trigger the EtB effect!
Nothing spoiled so far for Legacy. This set looks like it's going to be a real headache in competitive Limited events, though, especially if you aren't using the right manifest/morph reminders. "No, I swear, this face-down instant is totally the manifest guy!" I guess the argument is that you should just keep track of these things yourself, since you're not allowed to change the position of face-down cards while they're face down, but (1) that's extra mental work I'll have to do for something that won't matter 95% of the time because most opponents are honest and (2) WotC usually likes to avoid these sorts of non-obvious things by using some kind of additional marker that can serve as a reminder (usually +1/+1 counters - see the Monstrous mechanic and the 'volvers).
... and Reanimator, SneakShow, etc. ... Something along these lines. Question is, with what kind if decks you are left then
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7/7 pointy eared gits trampling everything so very dead?
Soulflayer is pretty good - at worst, it's a 4/4 forwith only 4 cards to delve. 2x fetch, cantrip, Gitaxian Probe, done. Although good is relative in a format with SFM + Batterskull.
As for its ability, I don't know which deck could probably utilize its ability - maybe back-up for Reanimator?
Manifest basically screams "DREADNOUGHT TIME, BITCHES!". TsumiBand already mentioned Cloudshift, but I'm rather in favor of Flickerwisp and Resto due to their body and extra utility. It all depends on how the rest of the manifest cards turn out. It's an interesting mechanic for sure, despite being another mechanic that gets fed by Brainstorm and consorts. Let's hope it isn't going to be another debacle like Miracles.
isn't Cradle on the RL?
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