Funny enough, every deck in the format that is capable of T1 Chalice is a favorable matchup for Elves.
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
I've been enjoying this last bit of discussion. It provokes me to reflect on what I've been finding to be the match ups where I have the hardest time winning.
(By the way, Chalice is definitely a speed bump and an annoying one, but we often, as others have said, have a way to work through it.)
Miracles, of course, is a challenge. I've never been a fan of the miracle mechanic--for all sorts of reasons unrelated to being an elves player--but there are ways to beat it (though there is little question that the odds are always against us). It requires substantial sideboard dedication, but much of that dedication is useful in other situations.
The three decks I find myself consistently struggling with are lands, painter, and storm--the first two being in a different category than the last. I think what vexes me about these three deck-types is that they remove one of the legs of our stool that I value a lot--the ability to come back. Once these decks get their grip, it is difficult for us to recover and what makes elves such a good deck is that it is a threat early, mid-game, and even late game. We can often find a solution.
If I haven't said it enough already, I hate lands. And lands have continued to get better and better. There really are no good cards in our wheelhouse for dealing with the arsenal that lands brings. We can out race them--pretty much our only option--but they are now packing disruption and have the ability to recover from our meager disruptive efforts. Yes, we can remove options in their graveyard, one card at a time, but I'm finding that that is not enough.
Painter, too, is a bummer of a match up. Again, we are in a race, but just watch Julian's six matches with painter to see how frustrating a race that is. While the Moon cards should not hamper us as much as they do other decks, they do hamper us. Julian is as good an elves pilot as exists, but watch most of those games.
Storm--a deck that pisses many off and a BORING deck to play--is hard to stop for us. We just don't pack the kind of disruption that affects it all that much. I'd love to see an elf that forces the storm player to have to pack alternatives to deal with it. Yeah, yeah, I know that Ruric is a solid option, but storm will frequently go off before we can get Ruric into play. While I don't like storm, it's the other two that really are vexing me these days.
OK. Sorry for the rant. I guess it was just welling up inside.
LoR
Now that is something good for me to remember. I'll never be happy about chalices, but maybe like force of will, it's good to be prevalent in the format to keep down the decks we worry about.Originally Posted by Julian23
I'm not nessisarily convinced, but I found myself reaching for justifications, which for me is a sure sign to step back.
I'll go back to side board for the 4th abrupt decay, though I will leave it at four for now. If I need it game one, I will know it and see how often I am wishing for that AD. Easier to see when you need it then to judge just how good it was when you have it. I had been playing 3 AD and one golgari charm, just as a nod to how much I hate electrickery and its ilk. Maybe I should cut back on one or both for the krosan grip. As said, most decay targets are artifacts or enchantments, and the benefits of grip, getting top, getting batterskull, etc. may make the difference.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Abrupt Decay is probably the cards I side in the most often, and as always been a 4-of in my SB. And I have never wanted to cut one, even thought SB place is scarce.
But I also never wanted one main. Why? 3 reasons:
First, it's useless against our worst MUs, fast combos (storm, S&S, OmniTell, reanimator, dredge, TES,...). Against them I side in discard.
Second, AD is particularly good post board because it kills some hate (cage, priest) additionally to targets which were MD (mainly CB, jitte and delver are the things we want to answer for me: fast (1-2 manas) and really deadly).
cf mtgtop8, most played SB cards :
Flusterstorm 40.9 % 1.7
Pithing Needle 37.4 % 1.5
Grafdigger's Cage 36.2 % 1.6
Pyroblast 32.7 % 1.7
Red Elemental Blast 23.3 % 1.5
Wear / Tear 21.0 % 1.4
Vendilion Clique 21.0 % 1.3
Containment Priest 18.7 % 1.7
Third, I always fetch Forest against an unknown deck. Topdecking a decay without a black source, or being obliged to fetch a wastable bayou to be able to cast decay is not a situation I want to be in.
In the same way, even if I side in discard in every bad MU, and discard almost always find something relevant to hit (especially TS), I don't want to have discard main.
Otherwise, so what's the reasoning behind siding GSZ out? I think besides fetchlands it is the only card in the entire deck I never sided out.
Is it to hedge vs priest / cage? and if yes, is it worth it?
I almost never side out GSZ as I consider it the glue of the deck, usually the card I most want to have in my opening hand against an unknown deck. I sided it out once because the opponent had some crazy hate (like 2 cages and 2 containment priests) but even then I think I only sided out 2.
And excellent idea that the most valuable targets are not in our opponent's main board. I still say chalice is an excellent target for AD, but not every deck has it, most still don't start a playset, and it is beatable with main deck sage. Thanks! Though I will always cherish the look of surprise when you play it during game 1. :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Played a bunch of games postboard against miracles, won like 20%. Feels like I've wasted my night
Matt Bevenour in real life
Today's Dan's Birthday! Best Wishes from Berlin to Bellevue! Woooooooo!
www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!
Join us at Facebook!
Yet another ring around the Pendelhaven. Happy birthday!
Haha of course these super nerds post here instead of my Facebook page. Thanks guys. Now go eat some cake on my behalf.
Also, to stay on topic: Tammit, you didn't necessarily waste your night. Think of it this way. You gave your Miracles opponent the time of his life!
lol jk.
Elves Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/2EVsdw2
What's up with the Elves pilots at SCG Open Philly? No clues how Quirion + Arbor interact or how the Legend Rule works? Disappointing
www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!
Join us at Facebook!
Did you see the guy in round 2 who played a 2nd Cradle before tapping the first one, then lost because of it? That was sad.
Yeah, round 2, game 1 (~ 01 : 12 : 20), it's Rich Meyst 4th turn :
Board : Bayou, Cradle, Dryad Arbor, Quirion ranger, Quirion ranger
Hand : Behemoth
Draw step : Visionnary
Well, Cradle + Bayou + Dryad is 5 mana
First Quirion activation let you replay the bayou & tap Dryad again for a total of 7 mana
Second Quirion activation, tap Dryad and proceed to hardcast Behemoth, then swing for 19 damage (Cook is at 15 life)
Sadly, Rich Meyst plays Visionnary (He already had the lethal boardstate (minus Dryad sickness) last turn, but he did not see it)
Yep. That and the upfuck with double Cradle. Two mayor mistakes during round 2(!). Very strange. Had to laugh as I saw Ross sleeves Storm for this event instead of Elves and played masterfully around Clique. Tip my hat, pal.
The Elves player who faced Pikula later also refused to stall his opponents lone Swiftspear with Quition+Arbor for whatever reason.
www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!
Join us at Facebook!
Ross Merrium is live on SCGlive on twitch now, with storm. Doing well so far. Good luck! I hope you do well enough with combo that you Spigle handedly shift the metagame Into hating storm next week, helping out the elves meta ;)
Edit: will we see a battle of the Ross's? Ross Merrium's storm is in top 8, but so is Ross Prajzner's elves!
Last edited by jamie7keller; 01-11-2015 at 05:03 PM.
Oh boy! Elves list from top8, won't say which place just in case of spoilers :)
Creatures (30)
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elvish Mystic
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Quirion Ranger
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Dryad Arbor
Lands (18)
2 Forest
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
4 Gaea's Cradle
Spells (12)
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
Sideboard
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Imperious Perfect
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Marsh Casualties
2 Thoughtseize
TBH some of these choices read a bit funny but lets try and work at the reasoning behind them. I assume imperious perfect is to fight electrickery specifically, thorn is for UR delver and revoker is for I don't know.
Revoker is pretty much for the same stuff that pithing needle is for. I prefer pithing needle but can see it going ether way. Revoker fuels cradle and cratterhoof, but opens you up to even more pain from sweepers.
Revoker shuts down LED where Peedle doesn't. Though a 1-off 2 cmc non-GSZ'able creature seems a bit farfetched as an actual answer.
Well, it's part of a mix of answers - 6 discard, 1 Thorn, 1 Revoker, 1 Teeg, 1 Ooze really starts looking like you have something.
True. Though from time to time 4 of those answers are too slow to stop the opponent. Don't forget they play discard as well as Chain of Vapor. And Ooze only shuts off the PiF-route (if you have the mana for it, this is also one of the reasons why I like to include a Dryad Millitant in my SB).
True. p-needle hits thespian stage/wasteland etc. revoker hits LED and heritage Druid. They are comparable but significantly different.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote