All B/R update speculation.

[YamiJoey]

Well, I for one would like to see some cards come off the banned list,
like:

Land Tax (parfait FTW)

Worldgorger Dragon (seriouslym G4 is the only reason to not unban it, and when something is so bad you have to go to G4 and 5 I don't think it will win or warp the format much)

Metal Worker (seriously, even welder is more powerful for stax and hardly see's play)

Some other irrelevant outdated stuff.

For banning I would like to see CB banned (top can go in anny deck and give's midrange a good amount of consistancy) but cince CB+SDT keeps combo in check I think And nauseam and/or LED would need to get hit by he banhammer since they would go out of controll otherzise

It took six years, but finally you have your vengeance. Was this some Land Tax + Dragon + Metalworker deck you were working on? I would play whatever crap that came out as. Ramp into Worldgorger Dragon, make Metalworker and have a boatload of mana.

Sounds like a sweet Tier 2 Standard deck.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

How do you find those six years old posts?

[M+1]

Just attended 70 people tournament in Germany yesterday, the day after Treasure Cruise got banned. Man, it was nice.
The best format feels just right again.
This was the top 8: 2x Death & Taxes, Canadian Threshold, Lands, Infect, MUD, 2x Team America.

[death]

How do you find those six years old posts?

It's on the first page. He's probably re-reading the thread and by now he's on page 115.

[YamiJoey]

It's on the first page. He's probably re-reading the thread and by now he's on page 115.

I stopped reading at page 2. Everyone looks really stupid when you are from the future.

[FoolofaTook]

I stopped reading at page 2. Everyone looks really stupid when you are from the future.

They can't ban Sensei's Divining Top because CounterTop is the only thing holding combo in check in Legacy. Sound familiar?

[AznSeal]

Hey 5 nonblue decks in the top 8 of SCG. Can we stop whining about brainstorm now?

[wonderPreaux]

Hey 5 nonblue decks in the top 8 of SCG. Can we stop whining about brainstorm now?

[sarcasm]
lolol, ofc not, dont you know every time nonblue tops its because they got lucky, until GWx midrange is 70% of the meta legacy is ruined
[/sarcasm]

[ReAnimator]

Hey 5 nonblue decks in the top 8 of SCG. Can we stop whining about brainstorm now?

This is a totally great point, especially when taken into the context of the full top 32, which has 7 whole non Brainstorm decks! this is looking healthy, and one of those decks features 3 main deck chokes!

So looking at that data point it looks like blue decks aren't actually performing very well vs the non blue ones and therefor the meta should swing back as more and more people pick up the non blue decks that are doing so well. This will probably be the last time we see ~75% of the best performing decks running brainstorm as it performed so poorly.

/sarcasm

[Lord Seth]

Were you around when Modern was just starting as a format? I think it was the first GP where turn 1 combo decks were wrecking everything. The format was absolutely awful. And modern didn't even have LED , BS, Ponder, preordain, burning wish, or Dark Rit. They did have spell pierce, thalia, meddling mage, duress and thoughtsieze. It didn't matter.

The top 5 cards from the Lincoln Grand Prix were Birthing Pod, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Cranial Plating, Dark Confidant and Life from the Loam. The Grand Prix was won by Aggro Loam. The win-con was Seismic Assault. Dark Confidant had 12 copies in the top 8. Tron was a big player all day. Hardly a turn 1 combo slaughterfest.

What I remember from that GP was all of the articles coming out the next week about how terrible the format was and the ban hammer that came down shortly afterwards on the combo decks.

The dissonance here is that you two are talking about different events. testing32, I think that you're referring to is not GP Lincoln (the first Modern Grand Prix), but Pro Tour Philadelphia (the first Modern Pro Tour). Pro Tour Philadelphia came about half a year before Grand Prix Lincoln.

Though I feel I should point out that they did not have Thalia in Pro Tour Philadelphia, as she was over half a year from being printed.

Also, there weren’t "turn 1 combo decks wrecking things." There were, however, combo decks that could win quite consistently on turn 3 and sometimes turn 2.

[rufus]

Hey 5 nonblue decks in the top 8 of SCG. Can we stop whining about brainstorm now?

I expect that Dig Through Time will find its way to the ban list sooner or later as well.

[YamiJoey]

They can't ban Sensei's Divining Top because CounterTop is the only thing holding combo in check in Legacy. Sound familiar?

Was this supposed to be a dig at me or what? I don't remember ever saying this.

[KobeBryan]

I expect that Dig Through Time will find its way to the ban list sooner or later as well.

dig is no where near the power of TC. in UR, you can almost cast 2 TCs on the same turn

[Dice_Box]

Was this supposed to be a dig at me or what? I don't remember ever saying this.

It's not at you, he is pointing out arguments from the early posts in the thread and using them to draw parallels to Force because he wants Force banned. It's not about you man, don't worry about it.

[YamiJoey]

It's not at you, he is pointing out arguments from the early posts in the thread and using them to draw parallels to Force because he wants Force banned. It's not about you man, don't worry about it.

Someone drew a parallel between the slowest card in the format and the fastest card in the format?

Okay. I think it was a reasonable statement to be baffled by.

[Quasim0ff]

Ok, so I can see you are putting a lot of effort into this one. There is a reason that no one agrees with you though.

Were you around when Modern was just starting as a format? I think it was the first GP where turn 1 combo decks were wrecking everything. The format was absolutely awful. And modern didn't even have LED , BS, Ponder, preordain, burning wish, or Dark Rit. They did have spell pierce, thalia, meddling mage, duress and thoughtsieze. It didn't matter.

You realize that FoW isn't very good against a lot of decks, right? I board FoW out a lot, including against D&T.

Hi,

The first premier modern event was PT Philly. It was a T3 format (Sam Black's Blazing Infect - It could actually in NARROW cases kill on T2), and otherwise it was a T4 format, with splinter twin being, without question, the best deck in the entire room.

Modern doesn't have the cards to kill T1. Nothing would make that possible, as they don't have any t1 rituals, or other t1 enablers - besides mox opal, but that's just good in affinity.

[Darkenslight]

Hey 5 nonblue decks in the top 8 of SCG. Can we stop whining about brainstorm now?

Maybe. I'm form the Wait-n-See tribe.

[FoolofaTook]

Was this supposed to be a dig at me or what? I don't remember ever saying this.

It's on the 2nd page of the thread I think, not you posting it. Lots of people were arguing for banning top and the counter argument that kept coming up was "you can't ban top because CounterTop is the only thing holding combo in check in Legacy".

Obviously this was not the case because CounterTop declined dramatically on it's own and combo didn't take over Legacy in the process. If you point at any card as necessary to the health of Legacy you are likely pointing at a mirage.

[sjmcc13]

If you point at any card as necessary to the health of Legacy you are likely pointing at a mirage.

The only card that I can think of as possibly being Necessary is Force of Will.

It is the only thing that really keeps the glass cannon combo decks that try to go of on turn 1 in check, and acts as a pressure valve on the format.
Fear of those combo decks and seeing FoW as how to fight them probably has more to do with the blue prominence in Legacy then any other reason (yes more than BS) Almost every time I talked to someone who did not play legacy their reason for not playing was all the Turn 1 kills, and I even got pointed to you tube videos of those kills in action as a justification for not bothering to look into the format.

[FoolofaTook]

The only card that I can think of as possibly being Necessary is Force of Will.

It is the only thing that really keeps the glass cannon combo decks that try to go of on turn 1 in check, and acts as a pressure valve on the format.
Fear of those combo decks and seeing FoW as how to fight them probably has more to do with the blue prominence in Legacy then any other reason (yes more than BS) Almost every time I talked to someone who did not play legacy their reason for not playing was all the Turn 1 kills, and I even got pointed to you tube videos of those kills in action as a justification for not bothering to look into the format.

The glass cannon combo decks wouldn't go off with even 70% consistency on turn 1 on the play and they'd mull a lot trying to get there. On the draw they'd face a lot of resistance.

Force of Will doesn't prevent a lot of turn 1 losses. It prevents a few turn 1 losses. In the course of doing that it makes a bunch of lists that might be viable almost unplayable.