Yes, I'm on the mono-blue version and was using 1 in the SB. Between it and Defense Grid, I think 3 slots is more than sufficient. I did use it to great effect vs Counterbalance however, and that makes all the difference.Originally Posted by Lans89
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
With Trickbind he cant use the ability for the rest of the turn.
As for the Dutch meta i am suprised that they pack so much blasts. Our meta is often all over the place, unlike the scg meta. Omnitell is indeed a strong choice cus not to much people play it, so people are not prepared for it. Guess thats why i top8'd with it during the Dutch Legacy champ a couple months back.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
So how many and of which to run for Sol lands? I see all sorts of assortments of sol land configurations and I'm really not sure what setup is "best" or perhaps a better phrase is "most accepted."
In the pre cruise versions 3 city of traitors was usually the mos consistent set up since you rarely need then before you go off and the life points from ancient tomb aren't trivial. I can't see much of a reasonto play more than 3 sol lands since we don't have a lot of use for colorless mana, especially with spell pierce seeing a sharp decline in play. I haven't player much since cruise was released so this could be wrong now but I still can't see much if a reason for more than that or ancient tomb since we are pretty slow and our life matters more than something like dredge or even decks like storm and Reanimator since they can go off a lot quicker than us a lot of the time.
The one i've been running is
5 island
7 fetches
1 sea
1 swamp
2 ancient tomb
1 boseju
2 crystal vein (this has been better than city since my lands have been more vulnerable with the sea.)
How do we defeat reanimator, sneaky show, infect, ur cruise? This are always my bad match here in my place but againts other decks its easy to beat and i always have a good strategy to win the game.
Heres my list:
(3 creature)
3 emrakul
(38 other spell)
4 fow
4 s pierce
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
3 g probe
1 ddt
4 SaT
4 Omniscience
3 d halls
3 c wish
4 EtI
(19 land)
3 a tomb
2 c traitors
3 flooded s
3 p delta
8 island
(15 sideboard)
1 intuition
1 R t Ants
1 trickbind
1 e truth
1 wipeaway
1 n revivals
1 PoN
1 s extraction
1 polymorphist's jest
1 g cage
2 flusterstorm
3 d grid
What do you think are the changes that i should make and strategies.
Thanks and happy new year...
Last edited by zzregz; 01-02-2015 at 12:23 AM.
For Reanimator and Sneak/Show the best plan, at least in my experience, has been show and tell-omniscience-emrakul to annihilate them the broke the symmetry of show and tell. With 3 emrakuls it is possible to set up the plan but it is a little slow to get the 3 cards you need. Other than that stalling into a dream halls kill is a pretty good way to go. Cunning Wish is a good bait spell on end step, if they don't counter it it generally finds a counter. I think the match up is close to 50/50 with them being slightly favored post board (us pre board because a lot of the time we can ambush them with emrakul off of their show and tells). The only times I have felt truly out of the game is when the sneak and show player has JTMS in their deck. Defense Grid is pretty good post board but beware it can work against you if they have the mana to cast + activate sneak attack or the mana for through the breach, but it is pretty good if we have a fast hand.
Reanimator is tough since they are blazing fast, our show and tells generally suck because of a broken 7/7 demon and they have a lot more disruption than us. I don't know what to tell you since this is consistently the match up I have had the most trouble with and I still don't know how to solve it or even if it is ultimately solvable.
Infect is a little easier than reanimator since they at least don't have discard and they don't nut draw as often but they are still pretty fast. When infect became pretty popular at my store I had 3 sideboard gut shots. I wouldn't suggest going that far unless a lot of people near you play it. Infect doesn't kill on turn 2 a lot of the time so I would just suggest aiming for a turn 3 kill or disrupting their kill. Generally they only have 2 forces and 4 daze pre board so it shouldn't be too hard to force through a kill if you survive the first couple of turns.
On UR delver defense grid is great, but red blast is a bitch. I don't know, maybe since everyone and their mother is main decking red blasts it might be reasonable for us to main deck blue blasts. I don't think it will ultimately be worth it but countering their 1 cmc hard counter or alleviating some of the pressure from pyromancer or swiftspear seems reasonable. It might even be worth playing one or two copies of defense grid main to help prevent red blasts from ruining our day.
I've been packing 4 Flusterstorm, 4 Thoughtseize in my 75 for awhile and haven't had any particular trouble with Reanimator. I can typically outdraw using cantrips and DTTs and out-counter them leading to resolving a Dream Halls. I've still been on 3 Dream Halls, 3 Dig Through Time, SB Dig through Time since I enjoy not being reliant on finding Omniscience to win. Also still playing R&D+Lab Man because it can win entirely off Dream Halls plus chaining DTT/ETI. Still playing 0 Emrakul. I don't feel like I've needed that card in awhile, and I'd rather have the most consistent starting 60 possible.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Several people have asked me for the list I've been playing on mtgo:
4 Show and Tell
3 Dream Halls
4 Omniscience
4 Enter the Infinite
3 Dig through Time
3 Cunning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Force of Will
3 Pact of Negation
10 Blue Fetches
5 Island
1 Volcanic Island
4 City of Traitors
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Pact of Negation
SB: 1 Trickbind
SB: 1 Dig through Time
SB: 1 Intuition
SB: 1 Research//Development
SB: 1 Laboratory Maniac
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 2 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
Notes:
- A red splash lets you better fight other blue decks while still having access to a reasonable sweeper vs hatebears.
- Lack of Firemind's Foresight sideboard and Trickbind maindeck means a single Cunning Wish doesn't necessarily win you the game anymore, due to inability to find Trickbind + Intuition. I also don't play an instant-speed condition, so you'll need to have Cunning Wish + another business spell or get lucky with Cunning Wish -> Dig Through Time if you need to win with just Omni + Wish. The upside is that you aren't caught playing Trickbind and Intuition in your deck, which are both really bad in the current metagame.
- This list might look really redundant and not particularly skillful. I consider those good qualities. When I combo, there is very little doubt that I'm winning the game right now, without targetting my opponent, and without an opponent being able to reasonably stop me.
- Force + Pact is a concession to the mana efficiencies found in the format. We still have to play Dream Halls since sometimes SnT isn't an option or you haven't drawn Omni yet. SnT->Dream Halls can still get there, and it's possible to cast on turn 4 a reasonable percentage of the time. When you're going for it in a pinch against decks like UR, you sadly cannot afford to pay U for Flusterstorm. You also probably can't afford to give them extra time to hit another land drop. This leads to playing only free countermagic.
- Dig through Time is cast for more than 2 mana quite a bit as setup. City of Traitors helps offset that you play fewer cheap interaction and fewer cantrips than other delve decks. I haven't been able to squeeze Probes, Thought Scours, or other cantrips in the deck without affecting the reliability of Dig Through Time and Dream Halls as combo pieces or my ability to consistently race Delver's clock + permission.
- I'm still not willing to waste 3 slots in my deck for Emrakul+Eldamri's Call+Release the Ants. Not going to debate this with anyone, but I don't fault you if you shave something in my maindeck for Emrakul and the R&D+Manaic for Release+Call because you're more comfortable with it or it provides a better matchup in your perceived metagame.
- Surgical Extraction chronically underperforms, but I haven't recently found spots where I actively want another card more. A third Wipe Away is a possibility because of how good that card is.
- I also don't cast Intuition very much. It is theoretically useful, although it's arguable whether you would rather pay 4UU to cast Intuition or 3-5UU to cast Dig through Time.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I've been playing Mono-U "omni-dig" (terrible name, I know) almost daily on mtgo for the last month or so. Most of the things I "found" have been stated by a lot of people allready. I just needed to find these things myself and really get a reason of not only "why" a card is needed but with which frequency it's needed, and what the other options are. I want to thank Lejay for all the help answering my questions throughout the testing.
Here's my list followed by some conclusions...
CREATURES (2)
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
ENCHANTMENTS (4)
4 Omniscience
SORCERIES (16)
4 Show and Tell
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
INSTANTS (18)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
4 Flusterstorm
ARTIFACTS (2)
2 Lotus Petal
LANDS (18)
6 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 City of Traitors
2 Ancient Tomb
SIDEBOARD (15)
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Eladamri’s Call
2 Defense Grid
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Trickbind
1 Swan Song
1 Dig Through Time
1 Snap
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Maindeck:
Power
Show and tell is very powerful. It's hard to hate it and thus we don't really need a plan B. I have 2 Jace as a plan B, but more about that later.
Speed
4 sol-lands and 2 petals have been allright in testing. One piece of acceleration is always wanted. We speed up a turn or we have mana to pay for daze/mana for our own flusterstorm. Drawing to many is not something we want and I've been happy with these 6. I think it's correct to side out the petals in grindy matchups and I sometimes replace 1 or 2 lands with Boseiju. I play the full 16 "cantrips" to fuel my 6 virtual copies of dig through time. Even though cunning wish is a very slow card this set-up has been more than fine. Cunning wish is like a necessary evil. I belive Dream halls is way to slow and I don't really see why we want it anymore.
Consistency
This has been the biggest issue. The difference between a good and a bad draw is huge for this deck. To mulligan for a fast hand when I goldfish have been a very important lesson to learn (and Im still terrible at knowing which hands to keep, I am way to greedy). Other than this issue of pure goldfish speed I haven't had any big issues going off through hate cards. One of the strenghts with this list is that the second attempt to go off is not that hard to pull off. Just play dig through time and do it again. This has been my number one reason to stay mono-blue as going of with a dual-land in play (as seen in U/R, U/B or grixis) is less stable and if your opponent have wasteland/blood moon this second attempt will require not only another combo-piece but also more mana. the full 8 counterspells helps a lot buying time versus the average midrange deck (while obv beeing great vs combo). A Gitaxian Probe often reveals a weakness and flusterstorming their brainstorm is very often similar to ancestral recall game1. Going off a third time is also very doable (mostly versus super hard control) especially postboard. This jamming of show and tells and dig through times made me finally cut the intuition and the personal tutor package. I simply do not belive we need them to be able to consistently go off in time. You are not only a very fast combo-deck, you are extremly well positioned to just jam powerful cards until your opponent run out of counterspells. I chose to play with with these cards because they only speed up the deck and do not help much in the grind. For fear of surgical extracion I almost allways side Intuition out anyways and with this list I put consistency over anything. My second emrakul is something I've been ok with but it requires more testing as the card is terrible pre-show and tell. My whole idea about my version of the deck is to have the least number of terrible topdecks and redundant combo pieces is the worst.
Sideboard
1 grafdigger's cage
I would really like another as a 1-of is quite random. I would never go below one though as shutting of dredge completly (we can protect the cage) and giving us a lot of time versus Reanimator is worth 1 sideboard slot. Faster combo is the only thing I fear going into a tournament with this deck. Cage helps against that (while also buying time versus Elves and storm).
1 surgical extraction
Playing with cunning wish kind of requires you to run a piece of GY-hate to wish for. Ravenous Trap is another option but it's terrible versus reanimator. Surgical extracion is worse vs dredge but it buys enough time (often taking bridge from below if you have a slow hand, or cabal therapy if you are ready to go off). Seeing your opponent's whole deck is VERY powerful if you are about to lose G2. Surgical is also a defensive card when you want to protect stuff from your opponents surgical extraction (which Dig through time is nice for too, btw).
1 eladamri's call
Needs no explanation.
2 boseiju/2 defense grid
This is very meta dependant and im fine with an even split. I often cut 2 flusterstorm when I side these in. Defense grid is better versus taxing counters (u/r delver) and boseiju owns slower decks (miracles). Im thinking about playing 1 boseiju maindeck but sometimes it's just a terrible magic card. With less miracles I think a 1/3 split would be more reasonable.
1 trickbind
a must.
1 swan song
If I want a counterspell when I wish it better be something that can take care of most things. I also thought of counterspell but 2 mana is plenty. Going eot Cunning wish for protection followed by show and tell limit the mana to 1. I think Swan song is the best option. It's also a win-con (yeah it happens!). Pact of negation is an option but I have to attack with emrakul and I dismissed it for that reason...
1 Dig through time
With cunning wish maindeck I think having something to wish for pre-combo to get going is crucial. I tried having nothing (and 4 dig maindeck) and I tried Intuition. Wasn't really happy with any of them.
1 Snap
Since we need another attack step we can't play Slaughter Pact (which would be the best option). Snap is something I've really liked as it allows you to go wish->snap and then snap+show and tell. The mana difference can be very important compared to other options like dismember and Sapphire charm. I also don't think we care enough about hate-bears currently that we need more than one bounce (meddling mage and ethersworn canonist beeing the only ones with thalia and spirit of the lab as some annoyance. Snap is also great with Boseiju.
1 Echoing Truth
I've been playing with Rushing River and Wipe away in this slot but the extra mana have been huge. As I previously stated we care very little for hate-permanents so we don't actually need more than one bounce. Echoing truth can bounce anyting at a low cost, while still beeing uncounterable in combination with Boseiju.
1 Hurkyll's recall
With only 1 echoing truth this card is a must to stand a chance vs MUD and similar chalice-decks (where our other line of defense is terrible (flusterstorm)). I also tested Rebuild but it's just greedy to attach cycling value versus a deck with Lodestone Golem...
2 Jace, the mind sculptor
Show and tell is the most powerful card in the deck but Dig Through Time is not to far behind. Jace is PERFECT for games where we put a lot of faith in the dig through time-grind. Against any midrangy/slow deck with a low creature count Jace is great. It's also your primary route to victory versus reanimator where your normal combo sucks. Reanimator/SnS are considered bad matchups for Omnidig and I can see why. With Jace however I actually feel favored!
Further development
I feel I've covered most matchups allready but I am very far from finished. The deck maindeck is very tight but the sideboard can be improved. Pithing Needle is something I really want to fit (griselbrand, sneak attack, goblin charbelcher and also aether vial/sensei's divining top/liliana of the veil to a lesser extent). Other than that my list of "other playables" is quite short. Next step would be to try the different splashes but right now I don't see a reason to.
What I like most about the deck is that aside of 10 combopieces it is a perfect control deck. Switching role from fast combo to inevitable combo is ridiculous in the same way the Tempodecks get to play with Ancestral Recall these days.
The "bad" matchups are faster combo and super-control. I think I have the first covered with 4 maindeck flusterstorm and the latter with boseiju. Are there any cards I did not mention (and can put on my list)? Is there any matchup you want me to cover? Please let me know what you think of my reasoning and my list!
TC is banned.
At least...we won't see maindeck pyroblasts everywhere.
I hear they got twisters miles wide in the Midwest.
I wouldn't bet on it too much.. Jeskay is still a huge thing and this deck is much more common than ever. at least 3 blasts will be in almost every 75s
Sideboard a Hurkyl Recall that you can pick up with Cunning Wish ;)
are you really playing that much MUD. you can usually just power on throughAh ah...lol...ok, I was there came up to here...
Other advice to improve this matchup?
Quick question guys. Why play Mono-U over UR? Isn't having Burning Wish and playing with virtually 7 copies of S&T just better? I'm missing a only few pieces to put together either version so would like to hear some opinions before going shopping :)
Legacy: Rituals
Vintage: Drains
weakens the mana base, no trick bind,
Those are the most serious disadvantages so far. I've seen a list with cunning wish and burning wish, but no DTT, which i feel is overpowered in this deck.
Actually latest lists play Dig Through time as a 4-of. That's why I thought the comparison was apt. e.g: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15762&iddeck=117375
Legacy: Rituals
Vintage: Drains
Show and Tell isn't necessarily what you want in every matchup either. There are several matchups where resolving Show and Tell has very low EV due to what the opponent can drop into play. You see this most often in Show and Tell mirrors, but it also happens against random and not so random combo decks like Reanimator, Belcher, Aluren. Against some white decks it's also not 100% (Miracles and Death-N-taxes immediately come to mind). While I might still just jam 7 copies of Show and Tell if that was allowed, when 4 of them cost 5, I'd rather just play Dream Halls to begin with. It can't be broken up over multiple turns, but that's not actually a huge deal given that turn 2 Burning Wish is a fantasy due to the immense amounts of cantrips the deck possesses. Dream Halls also lets you win in situations where you otherwise would not be able or want to cast Show and Tell. It's handy as something that you can actually Show and Tell into play (alleviating the need to find an Omniscience).
This is ignoring, for the moment, the benefits to playing a mono blue or mono blue splashing a single dual manabase. This is important in a world where the format's velocity stalls slightly to enable Wasteland from decks like RUG Delver and Shardless BUG.
Other than potential extra copies of Show and Tell (at dubious value), red doesn't offer you anything that you couldn't get for a single Volc if you wanted it out of the sideboard. Playing some Pyroclasms or red blasts out of the board is possible (although I'll argue that white and black splashes are significantly better).
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
That list has 56 cards 0_O.
Looks like it is missing 4 Preordain.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote