Congrats, Lord of the Pit! nice run... I like your 2 SDT a lot, those were great for me this weekend, I also found well performing lists in both of my tournaments (ab)using DiG a lot which was surprisingly no problem at all for me, I wonder if in your meta it was also the case
Energy flux vs Mud does not work more than buying time, vs Post version its embarrassing, EtW or Re-(card) if needed beOriginally Posted by aRSKOG
Probably a 2nd Usea, can't go wrong with it
I don't know any other dedicated Storm streamer, I think Max does a good job, I enjoy his streams... just watch Storm matches everywhere and never be satisfied with imperfection, question their/your lines and lists and first and foremost - play a lot... it's like any other thing if you want to grow an learn
Can you post a link where he streams?
Search twitch for "wonderpreaux"
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@Togores
http://www.twitch.tv/wonderpreaux/
This is his channel, you can see his saved games there as well.
As i've said in my last post, the last weeks i've been playing this sideboard:
3 Xantid Swarm, 3 Abrupt decay, 2 Sensei's divining top, 1 Chain of vapor, 1 Disfigure, 1 Massacre, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Krosan grip, 1 Empty the warrens, 1 Extract.
After the last tournament (81 players), the decrease of Show and tell decks and the presence of 2-3 TNT decks made me cut the extract and a Xantid Swarm. I 've also decided to cut the Empty the warrens, i don't feel it's necessary at all despite it's good against miracles.
After seeing the metagame breakdown and the results, i've noticeed that there has been an important increase of graveyard based combo and unfortunately also of GWb Zenith. Due to the last one, i've been discussing with the winner of the tournament (ANT player) and he thinks that playing 3 dread of night in the sideboard is now necessary to beat them. There are some death and taxes in the meta too. I've been performing well with Massacre, pyroclasm & co, but probably he is right, since Massacre is horrible against Teegs and pyroclasm doesn't work with Mother of runes.
The next weeks i'll try this sideboard:
3 Dread of night, 3 Abrupt decay, 2 Sensei's divining top, 2 Chain of vapor, 2 Surgical extraction, 2 Xantid Swarm, 1 Krosan grip.
I prefer Surgical over Fluster because it doesn't force us to leavean untapped land and also it works better with infernal tutor and hellbent. Saves us from some oponent's t1 kills when we are on the play too.
I'm really interested on your opinions about playing dread of night in this metagame.
I ran two Dread of Nights for the first time at the tournament I was referring to; I previously ran Massacre and/or Pyroclasm, but phazonmutant convinced me to actually play Dread of Night instead.
Dread of Night is significant in being able to easily take care of Thalia, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Aven Mindcensor, and Mother of Runes, wiping the board instantly clean as well as dealing with future copies of the card. However, it's clearly worse against the likes of Ethersworn Canonist, Meddling Mage, Deathrite Shaman, a 2/2 Scavenging Ooze, Phyrexian Revoker, etc., as well as usually not doing much against Gaddock Teeg without a second copy (but it's better than Massacre here).
Usually, my boarding plan against Death and Taxes or Maverick-style decks involves shaving all discard spells, bringing in any dedicated creature removal (Dread, Massacre, Pyroclasm, Karakas, Slaughter Pact, etc.), some Chains of Vapor, and maybe an Abrupt Decay or two. By far the two most likely cards you need to answer are Thalia and Teeg, and Dread of Night is clearly better than Massacre here; it doesn't deal completely with Teeg, it allows your secondary answers to deal with it without interference from Mother of Runes. I personally also play a decent amount of Maverick/Big Zoo, and Sylvan Safekeeper has been awesome for me when I'm on the other side of the table, but that's an exceedingly unlikely card to run into, I've been happy with going to Dread of Night over Massacre. Keep in mind that these decks are often capable of turning off your Past in Flames win condition (RIP/Cage for DNT, Shaman/Ooze for Maverick), so having a card that is easy to flip to Ad Nauseam as well as easy to get out of your hand in case you need to get hellbent is a big bonus.
Massacre was a useful answer against Meddling Mage decks, which often had no threats that could survive that card, but phazonmutant convinced me that I was overboarding for those matchups. Chain of Vapor should be a sufficient hedge, especially since it provides an alternative way to generate storm.
Thanks! Congrats to you too!
I had previously been trying to find a way to combat discard decks pre-Khans when BUG Delver was popular, and I tried things like Dark Confidant or a second Ad Nauseam, but they felt a bit clunky. Carsten Koetter wrote some nice Storm articles late last year, and this included running several copies of Sensei's Divining Top in the 75 to combat discard (as well as to enable other tricks).
I hadn't actually played the deck for a while, but I shipped it to a friend for SCG Seattle. With the increased presence of the mirror (and Reanimator/Dredge) in my local meta, I decided to exchange the Flusterstorms for Surgical Extractions. I kept wanting to dedicate more and more space to have actual sideboard cards and not merely "anti-hate", so I greedily kept cutting more Preordains for Tops. Togores' decision to do the same with his list after TC got banned sold me on the decision.
I can't say that inclusion was really a "meta choice", and I actually didn't know what the metagame would look like on this first weekend post-TC. I did know that I was very much set to play ANT and felt comfortable in my ability to pilot it recently, so even though I think the meta likely got worse for Storm post-TC, I felt it was still better than going with my secondary option (Miracles) which had served me very well in the past, but one with which I have been rusty and making a lot of uncharacteristically sloppy plays as of late.
Thanks for the Answer lordofthepit! I agree with what you've said. I'd also point out the possibility of copying dread of night with Infernal tutor to beat canonists and gaddocks. Also in my metagame GWb players like running sylvan safekeeper, so the doble dread is important here.
About playing tops maindeck: I'd like to play one, but i'm really happy with 1 Grim tutor, 2 preordains and 7 discard spells. I've been thinking about shaving a Preordain for a top, but i think maybe the deck would became slower and will give me more cluncky hands... Maybe i'm wrong.
In the end, the Best way to take decisions is testing, testing and testing, so these days i'll give a chance to these diferent maindeck and sideboard configurations, let's see what happens.
Thanks for the chat about Dread of Night. I'm gonna change my sideboard after that so it's now
3 Abrupt Decay 3 Dread of Night 2 Xantid Swarm 2 Carpet of Flowers 2 Chain of Vapor 2 Surgical Extraction 1 Tendrils of Agony
I'm currently playing 1 SDT in my main, but there might be an argument for another one in my 75, but what to cut? I believe 2 SDT in the main is going to be a bit clumsy. So what to cut in the side? To me it seems like Tendrils is the weak link.
Lets see how this goes today at my local.
I've always been a great fan of Dread of Night, for some reasons. The biggest one is that it kills some threats that you would have a hard time getting rid of, such as Aven Mindcensor. I don't know if it's only in my metagame, but here people used to play a lot of D&T with quite a lot Mindcensors. You can't discard Mindcensor, you can't bounce it, the only option without any Dread is discard + massacre, which is hard to have. The other great thing of DoN is that you can sit on it and play the control role, until you sculpt your perfect hand to win. Also you can Ad Nauseam more safely without 2 more 4 cmc spells in your deck. And I pretty much agree with Lordofthepit that vs. Meddling Mage you just need Chain, especially when the deck playing it is Deathblade, where is nearly impossible not to win game1. Right now I'm running a split of the two, 1 Massacre and 1 Dread, and I'm having a nice time with them.
"You must believe you are the best, and then make sure you are" Bill Shankly
Usually against Death and taxes andGWb Zenith i keep 2-3 therapys post board. Sometimes it's good, but when we haven't got probe playing a blind therapy is a lottery: thalia, gaddock, zenith, canonist... (revoker, mindcensor, spirit, shaman, ooze...) So probably is better to just side out all the discard spells.
What do you do?
I don't think I'll ever side out all of my discard vs death and taxes or maverick just because I've lost to mindbreak trap like that more than once
I played a Grinding Station list on XMage tonight, going 2-2. I beat Jund and Elves, lost to OmniTell and Lands.
Jund - turn 2 kills in both games
Elves - turn 2 and turn 3 kills, g2 I probed and therapied away a natural order
Omni - kept a discard heavy hand g1, g2 went for it as a bad decision without discard hoping to get lucky
Lands - Couldn't sculpt a hand g1 before Marit killed me, g2 mulled to 6 with one land and a ponder, got Ghost Quartered and then they set up the loam+wasteland+GQ lock
As a less experienced player with the deck and archetype I am wondering if a more traditional ANT build with more cantrips is better to learn with?
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The skills you pick up with Grinding Station are pretty key for success with ANT (abusing natural storm, managing the importance of your rituals/gy), I think the real issue with it would be playing it now when DRS, Discard and other such nastiness is returning to the tables :/
If you don't have the fundamental skills yet, Ad Nauseam is definitely the way to go. The games are much clearer, as the deck is, overall, more strict. You have more games where you're playing to resolve a single spell that will win you the game. With Grinding Station, games can be more volatile and the hardest part is, in my eyes, to know which win-condition is most likely to win you the game. You also have to be very patient (sometimes), which is a thing not many players are used to. This isn't something you are likely to learn from playing with Ad Nauseam though, but it still adds up to the things that make Grinding Station harder than Ad Nauseam Tendrils.
Further, with Grinding Station you'll have way more games that come down to mindgames and reading your opponent, i.e. which spells they are going to counter and how to make them react to certain spells but not to others. This, you can pick up from regular ANT, at least a little.
Regardless of all that, I think a list with 2 Ad Nauseam in the maindeck and a Grinding Station plan in the board is the way to go for now, mainly because it's that much better against Deathrite Shamans and discard spells.
Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com
deckstats.net archive
@Jona: what do you propose in a 2 nauseam maindeck list? I guess you should run 1 chrome mox or even 2. I saw some lists from yours in the past where you had 1 chrome + 1 rain of filth along with the usual mana configuration. Do you think that should work now or do you suggest something different?
I ask the same to Sawatarix that recently told about running something similar (2 nauseam maindeck I mean).
I do side out 1 Duress (D+T)/Therapy (Maverick), never more than 2
forcing G2 Grinding station plan vs Gy hate doesn't make much sense, 2AdN the other way around had some logic... personaly I haven't seen many DRS around me at all (like 6 decks out of 60), the better performing lists used DiG on UWx basis
The list Kai played last weekend was this one, which I made for him:
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
1 Bayou
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Thoughtseize
Sideboard:
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Dread of Night
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Swamp
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Tendrils of Agony
The only cards that are given in the sideboard are Abrupt Decay, Chain of Vapor, Swamp and Tendrils. The rest can be pretty much anything else, although I do like bringing the Top against BUG. Krosan Grip is an option, as are Carpet of Flowers and Xantid Swarm, although I have come to the conclusion that Carpet is basically never worth having and Xantid Swarm is only good when there's lots of Sneak & Show. Of course, if there's no D&T nor Maverick, you have a couple free slots anyway.
Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com
deckstats.net archive
Seems like the random burning wish I played lasts year and qas ala mode one year before is coming back. Seems always nice to have this 1x.
So, I've been playing ANT for nearly 2 years now, switching back and forth between it and UWR Delver, which I Top 8ed SCG Indy last year with. I've got a good amount of experience with the deck but unfortunately my luck with it has not been quite as hot, and I don't have much to show for how much I've been playing the deck.
I have been out of the MTG scene for quite awhile, and decided to check in on things post-banning. I assume that the meta is a little worse now for Storm.
I had some questions regarding sideboard cards. I'm seeing a bunch of people running 2 SDT in the board, and I'm assuming that's just for heavy discard B/G strategies, correct?
Also, I was always pretty confused about the inclusion of Flusterstorm in boards. Could anybody give me the logic behind it?
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