[Primer] Elves!

[Tormod]

I'm having a really tough time against Reanimator and Elesh Norn...

I need some tactical and sideboarding advice...

I'm considering adding a slaughter pact...

[DrHealex]

I'm having a really tough time against Reanimator and Elesh Norn...

I need some tactical and sideboarding advice...

I'm considering adding a slaughter pact...

You are better off dealing with it before it hits play as opposed to after. Karakas would be your best answer when it's in play though

[Julian23]

Just returned home after placing 1st in the Nuremberg Legacy event (47 players). Here's what I plaid:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Heritage Druid
2 Birchlore Rangers
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Reclamation Sage

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order

4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Pendelhaven

SB:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library
1 Progenitus
1 Scavenging Ooze

I removed pretty much all of the Anti-TC tech such as Marsh Casualties, Choke or Umezawa's Jitte from the sideboard for this, fully expecting Nuremberg to be the Miracle hell that it has always been.

R1: Death & Taxes, 2-0 W
G1:This is his first Legacy tournament. I don't keep the fastest of starting hands, but NO eventually triumphs his army of irrelevant hatebears.
G2: Once again my hand is pretty slow. I manage to Reclamation Sage his Aether Vial early on which leaves him stuck on 2 lands for a couple of turns. He still gets down Mother, Containment Priest as well as 3 Phyrexian Revokers naming Deathrite Shaman, Wirewood Symbiote and Heritage Druid and adds a 2nd Mother of Runes. Unable to basically do anything, I keep throwing my rather large army of about 7 Elves into the red zone. Pendelhaven makes it so that he has very little good blocks. Combined with the about 5-6 life he already lost to his turn1 his life total is already pretty low. He manages to find a Jitte at some point but I got the Decay ready anyways. I win one of those rare games where you just out-beatdown Death & Taxes despite them having 2 Mother of Runes.

R2: Esper Stoneblade, 2-0 W

R3: Burn, 2-0 W

R4: BUG Delver, 1-2 L

R5: Belcher, 2-0 W

R6: Deathblade, 2-0 W

Following several intentional and unintentional draws and a great tiebreakers on my side, I actually end up in 1st place.

/Edit: Fell asleep while typing; decided to just submit when I woke up again and went straight to bed ;-)

[ryscott85]

Could anyone explain to me why Birchlore Rangers are used over llanowar elves or another similar mana provider. I'm new to elves but often times i'd rather have the elves in my opening hand to start providing mana on the second turn vs adding one mana of any color by tapping two creatures.

[Echelon]

Could anyone explain to me why Birchlore Rangers are used over llanowar elves or another similar mana provider. I'm new to elves but often times i'd rather have the elves in my opening hand to start providing mana on the second turn vs adding one mana of any color by tapping two creatures.

For one, it has "haste" when it comes to making mana and it gives that same abilitie to your other elves as well. It allows for incredibly explosive turn 2's. Simply put it's an extra Heritage Druid, providing you with a bigger chance to draw one/have one in your opening 7.

Secondly it can also make black mana, which can come in quite handy for Deathrite Shaman and things like Cabal Therapy/Thoughtseize and Abrupt Decay postboard.

I hope this answers your question.

[264505]

For one, it has "haste" when it comes to making mana and it gives that same abilitie to your other elves as well. It allows for incredibly explosive turn 2's. Simply put it's an extra Heritage Druid, providing you with a bigger chance to draw one/have one in your opening 7.

Secondly it can also make black mana, which can come in quite handy for Deathrite Shaman and things like Cabal Therapy/Thoughtseize and Abrupt Decay postboard.

I hope this answers your question.

Not only Black mana, but in very rare circumstances you can hard cast Progenitus and redirect Chain Lightning.

As Echelon said though, it typically gives you better value on your glimpse turns than a regular mana elf would.

[Holden1669]

I played Elves with actual cards (as opposed to MTGO) for the first time. Went 4-1 and top 8 of a 34 person tournament. Lost to TES (0-2) then beat ANT (2-0), mono-B reanimator (2-1, lost G1 to a turn 1 Elesh Norn won G2 vs turn 1 Griselbrand), RUG Delver (2-0), Lands (2-0). Then in the top 8 I lost to the same TES player 0-2. All four games that I lost to TES were on turn 2. I was expecting more miracles than combo. I'm thinking of adding a sixth discard spell to the board at least. I don't want to overreact and add Thorns or something, but I think I will be tempted.

My list was stock main deck with 2 Birchlore.

Sideboard:
Progenitus
Scavenging Ooze
Reclamation Sage
4 Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
Null Rod
Needle
3 Decay
2 City of Solitude

I love playing this deck. It's so much fun and I feel very in control of all matchup except fast combo and miracles. Which is expected, I guess.

[MD.Ghost]

Congratulations Julian! (EDIT: and Holden1669)

----------------------
I also decided to play Elves in the new/old TC-Meta. For todays local tournament (Germany/Mainz) i used a very similar build from my last elvish performance (August 2014; 2nd Place) - i expect similar "decks to beat": Miracle, BUG Delver etc.

Compared to Julian's current build:

Grindy Maindeck:
+1 Taiga
+1 Ruric
+1 Packmaster
+1 Ooze
-1 Fetch
-1 Craterhoof
-1 Natural Order
-1 Nettle Sentinel

Side:
+1 Therapy
+1 Krosan Grip
+2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
-1 Surcigal
-1 Ooze
-1 Progenitus
-1 Library

Todays tournament startet with 32 Players (so sadly only 5 rounds) and i faced the following matchups:
R1: vs Omnitell 2:0
R2: vs Jund 2:1
R3: vs Merfolk 2:1
R4: vs Merfolk 2:1
R5: vs RUG 1:2

So after all i lost the last matchup and only conquered the 2nd place. I got some lucky matchups and dodged successfully all the miracle stuff

I was very happy with the build, Ruric and Grip were "GG" against Omnitell; Packmaster and Lieges scared some opponents - Conclusion: It seems that Elves got a good start this year overall in South Germany

[starfox444]

R5: Belcher, 2-0 W

What happened here? What do you do on the draw? With you onn the play, they can keep an EtW hand and then you can T3 hoof em for a billion but I have no idea how you won, as well as have it be 2-0 rather than 2-1.

[Lemnear]

What happened here? What do you do on the draw? With you onn the play, they can keep an EtW hand and then you can T3 hoof em for a billion but I have no idea how you won, as well as have it be 2-0 rather than 2-1.

My bet's on his opponents mulligan(s) and then taken out by discard

[LeoCop 90]

Well, sometimes belcher just loses to itself mulliganing into oblivion. They play 10-11 win conditions, and if they don't see one of them in the opener they are forced to mull. Also they have to mull if they see 3 or more of them becase they on't have enough mana to go off. Obviously belcher is also extremely susceptible to any kind of disruption (discard or counterspells) .... so you have to be lucky, but you can win despite not playing force of will.

[Holden1669]

Someone has probably brought this up so apologies if I've missed it but has anyone tried Liliana vs. Miracles? When I played BUG Delver it was the single card that was most effective against Miracles. It can keep their hand empty, it's tough for them to pressure/remove a planeswalker, etc.

[Zombie]

Someone has probably brought this up so apologies if I've missed it but has anyone tried Liliana vs. Miracles? When I played BUG Delver it was the single card that was most effective against Miracles. It can keep their hand empty, it's tough for them to pressure/remove a planeswalker, etc.

You don't need it vs. Miracles. It's enough that you consistently have access to outs to CB+Top. Having a bunch of beaters and Pendelhaven does the rest. Miracles gets gummed up enough by more universal hate cards like Rod, Needle and Choke as it is.

[Julian23]

What happened here? What do you do on the draw? With you onn the play, they can keep an EtW hand and then you can T3 hoof em for a billion but I have no idea how you won, as well as have it be 2-0 rather than 2-1.

I was on the draw twice because he had won the dice roll.

Game1 we chat a bit, I know he's on Belcher. I tell him that if he goes for Goblins, it is very important for him to make 12, not 10 Goblins because he will lose otherwise. He laughs and we draw our cards. He makes 10 Goblins on turn1. I win on turn3 at 1 life after blocking with Nettle Sentinel once.

Game2 he mulligans to 5 and passes. He plays double LED on turn2, I Reclamation Sage one on turn2 and kill him on turn3.

[chewemy]

Just returned home after placing 1st in the Nuremberg Legacy event (47 players). Here's what I plaid:

SB:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library
1 Progenitus
1 Scavenging Ooze[/CARDS]

Hi Julian and congrats,

Did the surgical extraction was good ? And when did you board it in ?

Thx

[starfox444]

I was on the draw twice because he had won the dice roll.

Game1 we chat a bit, I know he's on Belcher. I tell him that if he goes for Goblins, it is very important for him to make 12, not 10 Goblins because he will lose otherwise. He laughs and we draw our cards. He makes 10 Goblins on turn1. I win on turn3 at 1 life after blocking with Nettle Sentinel once.

Game2 he mulligans to 5 and passes. He plays double LED on turn2, I Reclamation Sage one on turn2 and kill him on turn3.

Running good!

[Snickelfritz]

Hi there. New to the forum, been playing Elfs for a number of months now, though I don't get to play Legacy often. I'm planning to play in the Legacy open in Indy this weekend, and just have a few questions. I suppose I'll post my deck list first to get that out of the way (apologies if I format wrong, I'll edit as soon as I figure it out).

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Heritage Druid
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Birchlore Rangers
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Reclamation Sage

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Natural Order
1 Crop Rotation

3 Gaea's Cradle
8 fetch land
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
2 Forest
2 Dryad Arbor

SB
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Progenitus
1 Null Rod

The sideboard is at 14 cards at the moment. I've been borrowing a 4th Natural Order for the 15th board slot, and a 4th Gaea's Cradle to replace the Crop Rotation when I can.
After reading the last couple pages, I'm planning to replace the Fyndhorn with a second Birchlore. Otherwise, I'm going into Indy with this 75 unless someone convinces me to change it before then.

Now, on to my questions.
First of all, one that I haven't been able to find a good Elfs player to answer satisfactorily, why/when is Wren's Run Packmaster good? I'm not saying it isn't good, I can see that it has value as a mana sink, but I've never been in a situation where I think of that as the thing I want. There have been times I've wanted a medium-costed GSZ target, but why this one?

Next, is Pendelhaven in there for anything other than getting in an extra point of damage here and there? Not that I'm devaluing extra damage, I know it wins some games, but I don't know what I would cut for it or f it's worth the trouble.

Does the banning have any real effect on what list we should play/how we should prepare for a wide open metagame?

[Shagstaman]

my only criticism would be that you are running 2 reclamation sage and 2 ooze in the 75.. that's two slots that could be used for extra sb help.

as far as WRP: he wins the "tarmogoyf" matchups (dealthtouch tokens+decay/bolt proof) and gives some reslience against decks with sweepers since you only commit a couple dudes and then get a refund when he dies.

and I think you answered your own pendelhaven question...I'm not running it either, but I totally see where it would be usefull (vs punishing fire mostly).

Good luck! I'll be battling in Indy too!

[LeoCop 90]

Packmaster shines in any attrition matchup against fair decks. If they don't run white he's a beast because without plow they have very few ways to remove him. If you run him remember that you can champion elvish visionary and you get to draw a card if packmaster dies.

Pendelhaven is a good card that can be run in place of a forest almost for free (well, you become slightly weaker against blood moon and price of progress, and it is possible you have quirion ranger with only a pendelhaven and a cradle in which case you wish pendelhaven was a forest, but these are all extremely corner cases). It pumps elves for extra damages and can save random 1/1's from elettrickery, forked bolt, golgari charm.... i think the advantages of running pendelhaven outweigh the small disadvantages.

[Julian23]

First of all, one that I haven't been able to find a good Elfs player to answer satisfactorily, why/when is Wren's Run Packmaster good? I'm not saying it isn't good, I can see that it has value as a mana sink, but I've never been in a situation where I think of that as the thing I want. There have been times I've wanted a medium-costed GSZ target, but why this one?

It's immune to Abrupt Decay and Lightning Bolt and a great mana sink against any deck playing fair. There's probably no creature in Legacy that dominates the ground as much as this guy does. He's BUG's ultimate nightmare. When you play with him, he sometimes feels like a mini Progenitus all of its own, no kidding.

Next, is Pendelhaven in there for anything other than getting in an extra point of damage here and there? Not that I'm devaluing extra damage, I know it wins some games, but I don't know what I would cut for it or f it's worth the trouble.

Cards Pendelhaven is good/great against: Umezawa's Jitte, Grim Lavamancer, Deathrite Shaman, Stoneforge Mystic,
Pyroclasm, Golgari Charm, Forked Bolt, Snapcaster Mage, Containment Priest, Ethersworn Canonist and Miracles as a whole in combination with Dryad Arbor. Weighing the downsides vs the upsides, I very much feel that Pendelhaven adds +EV to the deck.

Hi Julian and congrats,

Did the surgical extraction was good ? And when did you board it in ?

Thx

Surgical Extraction is a good that has been in/out of my sideboard a couple of times. I like it as a one-of as it adds another layer of hate to most of your combo matchups. Since I also like boarding in exactly a single copy of it vs Miracles, I think it's an ok choice. Against Miracles you don't try to get cute with it by snatching the Terminus out of their hand. Instead you eat the first Terminus with hopefully minimal losses, then Surgical Terminus to gain strategic superiority over the matchup. On top of that it provides value against the usual suspects such das Dredge, Reanimator etc.