I will be testing a new list tonight at my local. Will report back with the results, as I've liked the list testing online. Deathrite Shaman is a house.
// Lands
3 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
// Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Primeval Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
// Planeswalkers
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// Spells
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
1 Sylvan Library
2 Toxic Deluge
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Tropical Island
Right now I have a Choke in place of Chains since I don't own any.
Very nice list.Originally Posted by winglerw28
You are sacrificying the ability to fix your hand with brainstorm for more removal and tanking ability.
Tell us how your testing goes !
I recently started playing Bug... excuse me "SULTAI" Delver to try and understand legacy better... I really enjoyed it. I'll be watching for your report on this list very eagerly
Mikokoro isn't online before turn 3 anyways. Pointless
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I have to ask. I want to make a big creatures deck with immense power. I thought it was Reanimator which I have now, but I really want to play Emrakul since he is the best creature. I have limited my choice to 3 decks, Turbo Eldrazi, Sneak & Show, and Omni-Tell. I'm torn between these 4 heavy creature decks and your posts intrigued me to ask for your opinions. My questions are:
- Is Turbo Eldrazi considered a deck that is all about Emrakul?
- Is it as competitive as Elves & Death & Taxes?
- Is Omni-Tell more powerful than Turbo Eldrazi?
- And is Sneak & Show better than both Turbo Eldrazi and Omni-Tell, or not?
A pretty brutal answer but yes, you got the point imho. Add to this that a Storm player 99% of the times will check your hand with a discard spell before going off, if he's not totally retarded will take your Crop Rotation. Anyway, in the case you have won the dice, played a Top t1, are sandbagging a Crop on the top of your deck and dropped 2 more lands in order to reach t3 totally untapped while your opponent is spending its first turns cantripping, then it may do the trick. I'm not very optimistic too.
Regarding Surgical Extraction, i have always thought it was a bad card and i'm still convinced about it, having card (and life) disadvantage against a grinding deck to remove their wasteland after i've already been hit at least once it's not where i want to be.
I like it!
I played Rock's list last night at my LGS and I was pleasantly surprised how well it ran. The two times I cast Ugin, it was hilarious. My opponent was just left with equipment...the Ugin rapture took all his creatures to the great beyond. :-D Unfortunately, I didn't play against any combo decks, which is what I suspect is the major weakness.
With the addition of ancient stirrings and more expedition maps, are we opening ourselves to being more locked out with Chalice of the Void X=1? Obviously the GB list can just abrupt decay it. But the UG list really can't do a whole lot.
One thing I want to try is playing some number of either thorn of amethyst or sphere of resistance in sideboard. The reason being that against combo decks, I want to be able to go turn 1 ancient stirrings, retrieve thorn/sphere for a turn 2 deployment. That makes them go have to go for a turn 1/2 kill, have a abrupt decay or buys a decent amount of time .
Revoker usualy does the same as a thorn. But yes. Thorn is better because they have to fin and aditional land to get rid of it.
Also i think playing 2-3 krossan grip sb should be usefull. Much more now there is no island or repeal in md.
Absolutely true! I'm playing to Krosan Grip in my SB for almost a year now and they will stay there as long as I play this deck. Helped me winning many games... Some say Miracles is easy to beat. I don't agree! Game 1 is quite ok, sure. But game 2 can be really hard to win. Like opponent plays turn 1 SDT, turn 2 counterbalance and turn 3 Clique / Blood Moon. An uncounterable Grip EOT killing Balance / Moon is really helpful 😆
I hadn't reconsidered bug or bg with mikokoro acceleration of DRS in mind. Definitely will explore these options. like the build.
Thanks everyone for the feedback on the list!
I went 2-2 at my local, but I didn't really get to play much actual magic. One of my wins was against modern Tron, which isn't helpful information. My actual matchups were the following:
Round 1: Shardless BUG. My opponent played out a bunch of threats and countered my DRS with his own. By blowing up a permanent or two with Abrupt Decay I made him overextend into a Toxic Deluge and his board of Tasigur, double Goyf, DRS was obliterated. Followed up by a Cavern into Primeval Titan, the game ended pretty quickly. Games two and three my opponent's discard was brutal, and since we have between one and five post players at our local at any given time, he sideboards into four Wastelands instead of two, making the matchup significantly more tricky. I get shut out in game two and never reach enough mana to get anywhere. Game three I deluge an early Goyf + DRS to buy myself time and he jams a second Goyf that hits me down to 11. After decaying it I foolishly try to go for a Primeval Titan with no backup and it gets countered, followed by a Dig Through Time from my opponent. This is enough for him to pull ahead and squeeze the victory out, but it was close.
Round 2: Modern Tron. I ramped better than him and ignored his two onboard Wurmcoil Engines by just doing nothing about them and killing him.
Round 3: Reanimator with Watery Graves instead of Underground Seas. Game one he plays a lot of lands, only revealing Island, Swamp, and 2 Polluted Delta. He casts Ponder and Preordain but reveals nothing else. I just end up jamming Prime Time and he scoops. Game two I assume he is either on Reanimator or some weird Omni list. To be safe, I side in a somewhat dead Krosan Grip. It doesn't end up mattering because my turn one Deathrite Shaman wasn't very good against his turn one Iona naming green. I died pretty quickly and didn't draw the Karakas or Expedition Map I needed. I remove the KGrip and put in all the thoughtseizes and Flusterstorms. Game three I get a DRS, this time I'm on the play. I play a Verdant into Bayou into DRS, then follow up with double Thoughtseize on turn two. I play a Tropical Island with Flusterstorm in hand. My opponent tries to Lotus Petal his way to a win and I no sir it with the Flusterstorm, then allow his now anemic mana production and small hand to be his downfall. I slowly accumulate lands and eventually get a Wurmcoil Engine into play to attack with. Drawing more Thoughtseizes and Flusterstorms, I never allow him a moment to even try reanimating anything.
Round 4: RUG Delver. Game one I get shut out by a turn one Delver into blind flip, turn two Wasteland on my Bayou into a second Delver that also blind flips. I never draw Deluge or Decay and he Wastes two more of my lands to lock me out. Game two isn't much more fortunate for me, as his board of double Delver, Goyf, Mongoose handily defeats me. I had really wished that Toxic Deluge was Damnation here, as the life loss really hurt. He countered both Toxic Deluges with a total 2 Daze, 2 Force, and 2 Spell Pierce over two turns. After taking 8 off my own failed Deluges, I was Delver fodder and died quickly.
I think if I were to make changes to the list right now the biggest changes would be to do the following:
- I need a way to enable DRS more consistently early on. Abrupt Decay is very good and even though DRS is relatively more consistent than I expected it to be, I wouldn't mind something along the lines of Horizon Canopy, Wasteland, or more fetchlands. The Mikokoro felt really bad against non-combo decks and I wouldn't mind it being one of those and boarding into Mikokoro.
- I may want some early removal spell like disfigure or somesuch. Delver of Secrets + Wasteland is still really freaking good and hard to deal with if they know what they are doing.
- Deathrite was consistently insane, gaining me life, turning off Reanimator targets, and slowing down delve spells from my opponent. If I could run 5 Deathrite and 5 Abrupt Decay I would.
- Life from the Loam is looking more and more reasonable the way I want to change the deck. It's a bit of a nonbo with DRS, but I think the power level of Horizon Canopy + Loam and Wasteland + Loam is significant enough to figure out how to make it work. I won with Emrakul much less than I expected.
- Sylvan Library was a house and I want to play one or two more since it is the Brainstorm this color combination needs.
- I could see trying BUG, but I have literally no idea how to get the manabase to work smoothly. I'm reconsidering due to the overwhelming smoothness DRS has provided me - my fears of not hitting double colored mana have been assuaged.
- I tested a Choke in place of Chains. I'm not sure which is better, but Choke is hella magic card.
All in all, I was very happy with the list but it certainly needs some tweaking and tuning. I will likely continue testing and improving it since I do not need to prepare for a major tournament and have the ability to not care about having to win - I can test repeatedly with no pressure.
So in playing yesterday someone mentioned that they have a modern brew that uses Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and Painter's Servant. Why exile all colored cards when we can exile lands too! Is that too magical Christmas land or do you think there is something worth trying? It's entirely possible its just complete and utter overkill.
It is too cute, but I still want to see it happen because that is actually hilarious.
Anyway - Here is my updated list:
// Lands
3 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
// Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
// Planeswalkers
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// Spells
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map
2 Sylvan Library
2 Damnation
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell vale
SB: 1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Tropical Island
EDIT: Accidentally left the Damnation spot as Toxic Deluge
Last edited by winglerw28; 02-08-2015 at 09:29 PM.
I think you would be hard pressed to lose a game if you did that combo however, it seems like a lot of effort to set this up. If you are able to you should probably already win as is.
if they are resolving an infernal tutor the game is most likely over anyways. ANT decks on average run ~13 instants, which is about ~20% of their deck. The mikoro should work 80% of the time against ANT which would justify the inclusion in my opinion.
Great find Rock!
I think damnation is a poor choice. itswhich isn't easy when you are suppose to be going for
for titan, Teeg > damnation, its cmc 4 which is slow against for the purpose you need it. What situations would deluge not be superior?
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In the situation that I was put in during the tournament I posted about - against aggressive decks that can counter it the life loss is a significant negative factor. Also, double black is very consistent - the reason I can play Abrupt Decay is the same I am able to cast Damnation.I think damnation is a poor choice. its
After plentiful testing and digging, settled on this list.
// Lands
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [SOK] Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 [LND] Island (5)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [U] Tropical Island
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
// Creatures
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 [DGM] Notion Thief
1 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
2 [US] Show and Tell
4 [GP] Repeal
3 [AL] Force of Will
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 [AL] Force of Will
SB: 2 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Is Bog / 2x cavern the only way you're casting tyring to cast the notion thief's? How often do you find them just stuck in your hand?
Very rarely. Since Notion thief is a card you sit and wait on, and the cards main role is as a surprise blowout, you can hold crop rotations for it. I also am finding myself going for bojuka bog earlier and earlier in the present meta.
Of course, the midrange insanity of mikokoro + notion thief is there even if they have no draw engine at all.
winglerw28, either my calculation skills are truly abysmal, or both your lists have 57 cards maindeck. What was left out?.. :)
Anyway, BG-posts look very interesting. Will give them a try this sunday.
~Ad Astra~
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