[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

I think jade statue and ugin's construct are cute, but are suboptimal. you can block a tarmogoyf until they discard your ugin/karn and just run you over. If you're going to be that slow, you might as well go for Myr Incubator.

I am convinced a lot of you simply don't play this deck and don't understand how it works .

Lodestone getting chumped blocked and losing it is extremely relevant because of Wasteland in a format with Ponder and Brainstorm. You'll trade 1-1 for a lot of the time, but they'll stick 3 more guys while you top deck into the ethers.

I'd rather be scatterbrained discarding cards every which way in all directions with Mindless Automaton if it means having a relevant card on the battlefield that gets plowed and nets me free draws.

[Jakobian]

About creatures that function as lodestone golem... There aren't any others. Lodestone golem isn't just a 4 mana 5 power dude. His ability is super super relevant against a lot of decks. The fact that he bashes for 5 is also obviously nice, but he has ensured that I can resolve other spells so frequently it's not even funny. I can't even count the number of times my opponent has been tapped out (assuming they are protected by FoW or Daze), I tap metalworker on my turn for something like 8 mana, cast lodestone golem, opponent lets it resolve, then I cast the "real threat" like sundering titan, and my opponent looks at lodestone golem again and just frowns.

Earlier someone posted a list with ugin's construct completely replacing lodestone golem, which I feel would be a grave mistake. I don't think ugin's construct warrants a spot in the deck at all. That's just my two cents. Lodestone golem has also won me a few games against combo decks by slowing them down just enough (most notably Sneaky Show and reanimator) to buy me time or kill them before they combo off. This deck doesn't really need another aggro creature, and if you're running the 12post manabase with 4 metalworkers and 4 grim monoliths, casting a wurmcoil engine is pretty easy to be honest.


For credentials, I've piloted MUD with the following results (only moderately large events listed) 13th out of 138, 4th out of 67, 1st out of 50, 1st out of 40ish, and 29th out of 250+.

That being said, there is a sort of neat trick you could do with Su-Chi and kuldotha forgemaster that may enable some very explosive plays if you activate forgemaster on your own turn. I think these plays are probably win-more in 99% of the scenarios I can imagine. Half the fun of forgemaster is doing things in response to something, and getting the correct silver bullet to wreck your opponent's board state, win outright, or put you far ahead. I have held off ridiculous armies or board states just because I had at least 2 artifacts + forgemaster on board. Some opponents do not know all the tools you have at your disposal, and some know EXACTLY what you have at your disposal, which is sometimes just as good for you as a MUD player.

[Bobmans]

Su-chi and Goblin Welder have some solid interaction. Perhaps it could help drop Ugin, THA BOMB on the field in my Welder build.

Lately i found that playing the Cloudpost variant with Ugin, all played out to the point where i was casting lockpieces (which did or didn't got answered) and went into some sort of attrition game where we both started to run out of gas, finding myself on the brink of dropping to 0 life and Ugin showing up to claim the game (or not). So it seems to me that it is all coming down to unloading Ugin (against deck's that care obviously, GWr Maverick and BUG/UWR delver being some of them). Lock, ramp and one smoking Ugin!

[Alex Holland]

Su-chi and Goblin Welder have some solid interaction. Perhaps it could help drop Ugin, THA BOMB on the field in my Welder build.

Lately i found that playing the Cloudpost variant with Ugin, all played out to the point where i was casting lockpieces (which did or didn't got answered) and went into some sort of attrition game where we both started to run out of gas, finding myself on the brink of dropping to 0 life and Ugin showing up to claim the game (or not). So it seems to me that it is all coming down to unloading Ugin (against deck's that care obviously, GWr Maverick and BUG/UWR delver being some of them). Lock, ramp and one smoking Ugin!

Im so glad to have 2 foil ugin, its muds emrakul

Anyone ever tried porcelain legionaire? It intrigues me with 3/1 first struke for 2 + 2 life

[(nameless one)]

Going further back on this thread, my go to list before I stopped playing would be the page68 list.

I think Ugin would be what that list needs to win games from behind. The problem I had with that list was when I was behind, the lock pieces did not do anything. Although my concern is casting Ugin even if it costs 10 mana to do so.

I understand that Post mana base should make it relatively easy but with the metagame change, Wastelands could rise again.


On the other hand, my page one welder list could also use Daretti.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

About creatures that function as lodestone golem... There aren't any others. Lodestone golem isn't just a 4 mana 5 power dude. His ability is super super relevant against a lot of decks.

It's relevant against Storm, and Elves, but that's it

If it set them off of TWO mana, it'd be playable.

and yes , Su-Chi is very good Grim Monoliths 5-8 if you have a Welder or Daretti in play

and will even untap them which can be huge .

Blocking a Germ token with Su-Chi and then untapping Monolith to cast Forgemaster has won me games.

I like the Lodestone against BUG and the other fair decks . but against X-Delver deck with Swords or Bolt it is really useless

and the 5 power makes little difference they're going to fetch 2-3 times anyway .

and I think Ugin is so good that it is worth cutting Cavern of Souls so that all the other spells in the deck eat Force of Will until you drop him.

and I usually play Metalworker just to get it Plowed so that I can play Wurmcoil or somehting else after. My opponents still don't know not to kill him even though I tell them all the time he's such a hate magnet I am really lying to them.

[Alex Holland]

@nameless,

If wasteland gets out of control maybe we should go try pithing needle like 12post does.

Or in a red build blood moon, often locks them totally and altough its slows us down to i dont think you would mind a blood moon with a daretti or welder (i think any red splash MUD plays at least welder) to ride to a win.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

There was a list on Starcity playing 4 Goblin Welder, and 4 Faithless Looting, with no Trinisphere or Chalice, but I don't remember where the link was. I'm thinking of just leaving those cards in my sideboard and then I won't complain about not having enough threats if I play MUD stompy .

I would replace Looting with Daretti and play 3/3 split

[Jakobian]

It's relevant against Storm, and Elves, but that's it

If it set them off of TWO mana, it'd be playable.

and yes , Su-Chi is very good Grim Monoliths 5-8 if you have a Welder or Daretti in play

and will even untap them which can be huge .

Blocking a Germ token with Su-Chi and then untapping Monolith to cast Forgemaster has won me games.

I like the Lodestone against BUG and the other fair decks . but against X-Delver deck with Swords or Bolt it is really useless

and the 5 power makes little difference they're going to fetch 2-3 times anyway .

and I think Ugin is so good that it is worth cutting Cavern of Souls so that all the other spells in the deck eat Force of Will until you drop him.

and I usually play Metalworker just to get it Plowed so that I can play Wurmcoil or somehting else after. My opponents still don't know not to kill him even though I tell them all the time he's such a hate magnet I am really lying to them.

You bring up a good point of the interaction between su-chi and grim monolith, but I have to disagree with the way you're evaluating lodestone golem in the matches where it gets bolted or plowed, and I want to point out that Chalice of the void on x=1 stops both of those things from happening.


Lodestone golem is also extremely relevant against dredge, sneaky show, and decks with young pyromancer (which are gaining popularity it seems).

Another thing to note, if your lodestone golem is eating a bolt or a swords to plowshares, that's a bolt that would kill metalworker, or a swords that would kill wurmcoil engine. I'd gladly gain 5 life and eat a swords to plowshares so that next turn I can play a wurmcoil engine that goes unanswered.

If you're playing metalworker to eat removal, I feel you're playing the deck wrong. Given the choice, I will play trinisphere or chalice of the void before metalworker against 90% of the field. I will very very rarely put a metalworker out by it's lonesome, and it's usually in times of desperation that I do that. The deck wants to push into the late game where it just wrecks house.

I would be interested to see a tournament report from you for a larger sized tournament or something. You seem to play the deck fundamentally differently than I do, which is interesting to me.

[Alex Holland]

You bring up a good point of the interaction between su-chi and grim monolith, but I have to disagree with the way you're evaluating lodestone golem in the matches where it gets bolted or plowed, and I want to point out that Chalice of the void on x=1 stops both of those things from happening.


Lodestone golem is also extremely relevant against dredge, sneaky show, and decks with young pyromancer (which are gaining popularity it seems).

Another thing to note, if your lodestone golem is eating a bolt or a swords to plowshares, that's a bolt that would kill metalworker, or a swords that would kill wurmcoil engine. I'd gladly gain 5 life and eat a swords to plowshares so that next turn I can play a wurmcoil engine that goes unanswered.

If you're playing metalworker to eat removal, I feel you're playing the deck wrong. Given the choice, I will play trinisphere or chalice of the void before metalworker against 90% of the field. I will very very rarely put a metalworker out by it's lonesome, and it's usually in times of desperation that I do that. The deck wants to push into the late game where it just wrecks house.

I would be interested to see a tournament report from you for a larger sized tournament or something. You seem to play the deck fundamentally differently than I do, which is interesting to me.

Not to mention i run 3 greaves. Lodestone equipped is a nice obstacle for many decks.

[fogxanic]

Yesterday I was at 24 player tournament with Post-build and went 4-1. I can tell that Lodestone Golem was the guy in final round against Lands. Ok I knew what my opponent was playing and kept hand with 2 wasteland, vesuva, lodestone, metalworker, 2 cot. I start with wasteland go. He play fetch go. I do vesuva -> wasteland go, his eyes almost come out from his head He put urborg go. I do cot to metalworker he fows it. He put dark depths go. I put wasteland to lodestone and he dazes and I pay. He dont get 4th land and I just beat him down and waste his urborg with 2 wasteland backup for combo.

Second game was slaughter. He starts with urborg for pithing needle naming wasteland. Soon I get fast lodestone golem to play. He plays lotus petal. I get metalworker online and tap it for chalice 1 and 2 and forgemaster. He cracks his petal and trying to brainstorm I tell him that it cost more because of lodestone and he returns BS to his hand. Turn later I tap forgemaster for sundering titan and he dies with only pithing needle on play. 2-0.

Other matches were BW deadguy ale 2-1. I go first and don't know what he plays so I do A tomb, grim, trinisphere. Which was the right option, I had second land for T2 metalworker. Ugin did great work on G3 I had only ugin in hand. 2 cloudposts and 1 wasteland on play. He had like few hand cards and Bob, SFM with jitte @ 2. I drew glimmerpost which was the only possible land to cast ugin and -2 for win.

1-2 against RUG Delver, his multiple wastelands and some counters destroyed me.

2-1 Mud mirror, I won the dice so I was able to ramp faster. One game we traded Blighsteel colosses

2-0 D&T first game card was Staff of Domination. I tapped his aven mindcensor with fire sword. And later his germ and made the kill. Second round he had plains and vial. I did T1 chalice 1. T2 Revoker for vial and he didn't draw 2nd land fast enough.

[(nameless one)]

@nameless,

If wasteland gets out of control maybe we should go try pithing needle like 12post does.

Or in a red build blood moon, often locks them totally and altough its slows us down to i dont think you would mind a blood moon with a daretti or welder (i think any red splash MUD plays at least welder) to ride to a win.

If Wastelands get out of control, I would rock a Welder/Daretti list that cheats artifacts onto the field.

----------

I have updated minor parts of the primer. I added the planeswalker section and a small description on Daretti Stax.

Bob sent me a matchup analysis with his welder list that I will later add on the primer.

[Jakobian]

Greetings MUDslingers,

I played the same list I mentioned a couple pages ago in a 42 man tournament. Got top8 (6th place overall).

Here's a little bit about the matchups I had:

Round 1: UWR Delver
I didn't have paper for this match so I didn't write much down, but in game 2 I resolved an ugin and basically boardwiped for the win.

Round 2: UWR Delver
Game 1 I pretty much punted because I didn't really draw any lands after a mull to 6. I should have played it more safe and mulliganed again.
For the sideboard I took out 1 lodestone golem, 1 lightning greaves, and 1 staff of domination. I boarded in 1 batterskull, 1 sundering titan, and 1 steel hellkite
Game 2 Turn 1 cloudpost, pass. Turn 2 vesuva copying cloudpost, try to cast chalice x=1, opponent spell pierced it. His turn 1 was island, pass, his turn 2 was scalding tarn. My turn 3 was vesuva copying cloudpost, attempt to resolve forgemaster. Opponent cracked his fetchland for a volcanic island and countered it with counterspell. On his turn 3 he brainstormed and put 2 cards back, missing his land drop. My turn 4 was wasteland and spine of ish sah on both of his lands, and he scooped.
Game 3 From my notes it looks like I took a lot of damage from ancient tombs, but got to a point where I had 2 wurmcoil engines in play after baiting some counterspells with trinisphere and forgemaster. I landed a chalcie on x=1 and the two wurmcoil engines got there.

Round 3: Infect against Michael Nguyen. I have never played this matchup before so I was kind of worried.

Game 1: My opponent got a glistener elf turn 1, got to vines of the vastwood it so I was on 5 infect on turn 2. I was able to block glistener elf with my turn 3 lodestone golem and kill it, but he got a blighted agent soon after and was able to finish me off before I beat him down.
Sideboard: -2 lightning greaves, -1 wurmcoil engine, -1 Staff of Domination, -1 Sundering Titan; +1 Karn Liberated, +1 Ratchet Bomb, +1 pithing needle, +1 batterskull, +1 Steel Hellkite
Basically I wanted more dudes faster, and I wanted a little more removal. Pithing needle was for things like inkmoth nexus and pendelhaven.

Game 2: I landed a chalice of the void on x=1 on turn 1 and it basically locked him out of the game. He never seemed to draw another land and I was able to kuldotha forgemaster into a blightsteel colossus and out-infect the infect deck :)
Sideboard: I didn't make any changes in the board I don't think. I might have put back in the 1 staff of domination and cut spine of ish Sah maybe?
Game 3: I went infinite on like turn 3 and I cast a karn and an ugin. It was pretty neat. I did have 6 infect from a blighted angel which had been vines of vastwood'd on turn 3, but when I went infinite there was nothing he could do. Apparently he misplayed because he had a dismember in hand but he didn't kill metalworker, so it would have maybe been a different game if that didn't happen.

Round 4: BUG delver

Game 1: Opponent kept a loose 1-lander and hoped to win on the back of delver of secrets. I was able to land a trinisphere and follow it by an uncounterable wurmcoil engine (because he only had 1 mana) Wurmcoil vs 2 delvers means wurmcoil wins. Opponent scooped after I cast a forgemaster I think.
Sideboard: -1 lightning greaves, -1 Staff of domination, -1 Lodestone Golem (I'm not sure if this is the 3rd card I took out or not) +1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, +1 Steel Hellkite, +1 Sundering Titan
Game 2: Opponent had a delver turn 1, which flipped on his turn 2. He had force of will for my 3sphere, and I never really landed any threats to stop him from just bashing my face in. Between delver and my own ancient tomb I was pretty done for. He won this one.
Game 3: My opener was no lands, and my mulligan hand was something like ancient tomb, vesuva x2, grim monolith, forgemaster, lodestone golem. I topdecked the chalice of the void and it stuck at x=1. My opponent had a pretty fast start with deathrite shaman accelerating him a bit. I drew a cloudpost on my 3rd turn, so I was able to copy cloudpost with vesuva and hold off on some damage from ancient tombs, then I drew a glimmerpost and got a bit of life back. I was able to exhaust his counterspells and land a trinisphere. I landed a lodestone golem, and he followed up with liliana of the veil to make me sacrifice it. On my next turn I tapped ancient tomb and went down to 2 life, but Ugin wrecked my opponent's board state, exiling 2 deathrite shamans, a liliana with 1 counter on it, and 2 goyfs which had been bashing me. He didn't draw a land, and I was able to cast platinum angel the next turn, ugin him for 3, then pass the turn. He still drew no land, passed it back to me and Platinum angel + ugin for 2 turns was enough to finish the job.

Rounds 5 and 6 I intentionally drew against Vidianto Wijaya and Steph Newland.

Top8 match: John Harduvel on Miracles
Game 1: I mulliganed down to 5 cards because I had a really terrible opener (2x city of traitors, vesuva, blightsteel colossus, and some other high mana cost stuff), my 6 was also bad (don't remember exactly). I was able to gain a bunch of life through opponent casting swords to plowshares on my dudes (lodestone golem, metalworker) and I gained some life from glimmerposts. He was able to counter my chalice of the void at x=1 and dig for his entreat the angels, which he miracle'd for 5 angels on my turn via drawing from sensei's divining top. I had one out, and that was topdecking my mainboard Ugin, which didn't happen.
Sideboard: I fucked up because I forgot to board in Karn, Liberated here. I boarded -1 lightning greaves, -4 trinisphere and did +1 Sundering Titan, +1 Ugin, the spirit dragon, +1 Ratchet bomb, +1 Steel Hellkite, and +1 Batterskull. I should have boarded out the other lightning greaves and maybe a lodestone golem to make room for the 2 Karn Liberated, because that card is really good against miracles.

Game 2: I had a turn 1 ratchet bomb, and basically threatened to blow up all the angels he could possibly make the whole game... Basically every time I went to cast something or a creature resolved, he had an answer for it. He cast 4 force of wills in the game, two of which were hardcast. I saw quite a few lands as he was manipulating the top of my deck with a Jace that landed. He ended up killing me with a vendilion clique and denying me good stuff with Jace. Every relevant topdeck got answered by StP or FoW like I said.

Overall I don't think I would have done much differently. I ended up with a Dark Depths for my prize, so that finished out my playset.
Hope this isn't a completely useless read.

[Alex Holland]

congrats jakobian, nice to see the ratchet bombs worked for you. I retraced my steps and went back to put them back in my deck. Its very good to t1 drop a bomb making their delver, BG elf, useless. Its awesome against miracles, dredge, affinity, infect, goblins, elfs. Just a quick answer to all cheap legacy permanents. Later on ugin can do the big clean up.

I tried this for a couple of days> and i realised after some games i did not run mana artifacts. no grim monolith, no thran dynamo- and i did not miss them!

4 Metalworker
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Steel Hellkite
4 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Platinum Emperion
4 Lodestone Golem

2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Trinisphere
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Staff of Domination

3 Mishra's Factory
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Darksteel Citadel

Sideboard
4 faerie macabre
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Witchbane Orb
3 Duplicant
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ensnaring Bridge

Also on the lodestone issue- its just as trinisphere. They tap out they die. That simple. That good. That 4 turn clock. WIthout lodestone no MUD.

[Silverflame]

About creatures that function as lodestone golem... There aren't any others. Lodestone golem isn't just a 4 mana 5 power dude. His ability is super super relevant against a lot of decks. The fact that he bashes for 5 is also obviously nice, but he has ensured that I can resolve other spells so frequently it's not even funny. I can't even count the number of times my opponent has been tapped out (assuming they are protected by FoW or Daze), I tap metalworker on my turn for something like 8 mana, cast lodestone golem, opponent lets it resolve, then I cast the "real threat" like sundering titan, and my opponent looks at lodestone golem again and just frowns.

Earlier someone posted a list with ugin's construct completely replacing lodestone golem, which I feel would be a grave mistake. I don't think ugin's construct warrants a spot in the deck at all. That's just my two cents. Lodestone golem has also won me a few games against combo decks by slowing them down just enough (most notably Sneaky Show and reanimator) to buy me time or kill them before they combo off. This deck doesn't really need another aggro creature, and if you're running the 12post manabase with 4 metalworkers and 4 grim monoliths, casting a wurmcoil engine is pretty easy to be honest.


For credentials, I've piloted MUD with the following results (only moderately large events listed) 13th out of 138, 4th out of 67, 1st out of 50, 1st out of 40ish, and 29th out of 250+.

That being said, there is a sort of neat trick you could do with Su-Chi and kuldotha forgemaster that may enable some very explosive plays if you activate forgemaster on your own turn. I think these plays are probably win-more in 99% of the scenarios I can imagine. Half the fun of forgemaster is doing things in response to something, and getting the correct silver bullet to wreck your opponent's board state, win outright, or put you far ahead. I have held off ridiculous armies or board states just because I had at least 2 artifacts + forgemaster on board. Some opponents do not know all the tools you have at your disposal, and some know EXACTLY what you have at your disposal, which is sometimes just as good for you as a MUD player.

Totally agree. I've been playing several different builds over 3 years with mud, finishing 13th of 115, 18th of 154, 1st of 32 and some other results. Not an impressive record, so I'm open to ideas if they're reasonable.

This weekend MUD went 6th in 2 events:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=80728
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=80341

any thoughts?

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Su-Chi with Nim Deathmantle and Godo Bandit Warlord to fish it out might be a good answer to Liliana of the Veil.dec

If they sac your Su-Chi you have an out against that deck this way. You should be winning against BUG because otherwise it is the easiest matchup

sorry if i am repeating myself i dont think i mentioned Liliana of the Veil and Su-Chi / Nim Deathmantle as an out

I also saw a deck with Dodecapod in the sideboard for that matchup

[nerv2004]

If Wastelands get out of control, I would rock a Welder/Daretti list that cheats artifacts onto the field.

Has anoyone actually figured out a competitive list with him in it yet? Or are we just poping him in the older red versions with welder?

[Jakobian]

Su-Chi with Nim Deathmantle and Godo Bandit Warlord to fish it out might be a good answer to Liliana of the Veil.dec

If they sac your Su-Chi you have an out against that deck this way. You should be winning against BUG because otherwise it is the easiest matchup

sorry if i am repeating myself i dont think i mentioned Liliana of the Veil and Su-Chi / Nim Deathmantle as an out

I also saw a deck with Dodecapod in the sideboard for that matchup

Wurmcoil Engine is already a 3-of in most builds, and it's a perfectly fine card for liliana. I don't think we need additional hate for it. I have seen dodecapod and considered running it, but I don't think it's the end of the world, and most decks don't run hymn to taurach anymore, so it's less likely we pitch dodecapod anyway.

[Jakobian]

Totally agree. I've been playing several different builds over 3 years with mud, finishing 13th of 115, 18th of 154, 1st of 32 and some other results. Not an impressive record, so I'm open to ideas if they're reasonable.

This weekend MUD went 6th in 2 events:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=80728
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=80341

any thoughts?

The guy at the legacy IQ wasn't really a great MUD player I don't think. I railbirded a couple of his matches and he played a little bit differently than I would, but he had all good match ups the whole day. His only loss was Dredge in the swiss rounds.

In this same tournament I got 13th, and my record was 6-2, his was 7-1. My game win percentage was 73.68% and his was 65%.

The two players I lost to ended up being 1st and 2nd place.

Your record is pretty impressive still. Sometimes the only difference between a 9-32nd finish and a 1-8th finish is 1 game of magic. That can just be bad luck at the wrong time.

I have been considering cutting the 2 lightning greaves from my list to make room for possibly 2 thran dynamos, and cutting 1 other card to make room for another mainboard Ugin. I'm not sure what I'd cut though.

[Bobmans]

Has anoyone actually figured out a competitive list with him in it yet? Or are we just poping him in the older red versions with welder?

I have been jamming Daretti in my "regular" welder build but somehow he was not so good. Goblin Welder is enough for the deck. His discard, draw ability also worse then you might think. I even considered replacing Daretti with Faithless Looting. In the end i cut them for more artifacts to be more consistent.

There is a RG build with PFire/loam centered around Daretti. The list reminds me of UB Tezz. Pretty grindy.

Su-chi and Nim Deathmantle seem cute, but i'd rather force to resolve Ugin against BUG.

Cutting Lightning Greaves is a mistake. The card is often involved in games that are won. Unless you are going to cut Forgemaster package and switch to a more prison/control list i wouldn't do that.