Nothing! Sorry, I copied and pasted wrong from my SB notes.Originally Posted by GoblinZ
If discard is not a good plan, then is countering better? I have yet to face Lands, so just want to be prepared when I do.
Are you saving the 1-of Surgical for Loam only, or is it OK to nab a Punishing Fire for example?
Counters are definitely better. Not that they are particularly good, but you can sometimes catch a spell or two here or there with counter-magic.
That's a large part of why I run 2 Surgicals. You pretty much have to hit both, although it depends on the board state ultimately.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Live in the moment, but it will mostly always be Loam so long as you're stuck at only one Surgical Extraction. It is their greatest enabler. They will find it, and they will bury you with it. With it, they can put you in really bad Wastelocks and inescapable Punishing Fire loops. Without it, at the very least, all of your Wastelands become actually live draws. Just beware that at any point they can cycle a land and remove Loam from the danger of Surgical Extraction.
Main Plans:
- Land fattie like Goyf. They have troubles with dealing with such beasts since they can't shrink him and can't Punishing Fire him. However, they can indefinitely delay him via Maze of Ith and Glacial Chasm (fuck Tabernacle). So, most of your goal will be to find avenues to smack them upside the head with Goyf. Or two Goyfs.
- Avoid getting Wastelocked.
- Your own Wastelands, so long as they have Loam, are delaying tactics. Prevent them from making a fatass, and take out key lands EOT if you need breathing room for a turn.
- Exploration is a pain in the ass. Kill it if you can.
- Loam is the worst offender though
- Use whatever you leave for counterspells very wisely. They're looking to grind you, so don't just counter shit for the sake of countering shit.
- I gotta leave work and head home so that's all I got.
You should always, always go for Loam first. You have wastelands to stop punishing. You have enough fatties like goyf to pound through.
This is a matchup where you would side out dark confidant.
Just an FYI, if you have an untapped DRS and they proceed to punishing fire it, you may exile it, though your DRS will die.
What?
i've been told by some judge it works like the tarmogoyf rule...where you bolt a 2/3 goyf, but at resolution, its a 3/4 (pending no instants in gy).
It'd be nice to confirm. I never asked anyone after him cuz it didn't happen too often. Then again judges may be wrong as well since this one judge said I cannot just throw gilded drake in the yard if i do not exchange a creature (he was wrong, i wanted to exile all the bridge from belows)
Either you didn't actually talk to a judge, you asked the wrong question, or that judge should be drawn and quartered on the grounds of being an utter imbicile.
Also, failure to use common sense, and an ignorance of the basic mechanics of state based actions and priority marks you as an accomplice.
That being said, this is yet another instance where you would not be likely to sideboard out Dark Confidant on the basis of higher priorities. Hymn to Tourach, some number of Dazes and Thoughtseizes, and sometimes Liliana, take far higher priority, and there's not usually much to stick in.
To further contradict your post, you don't always always always target Life from the Loam with Surgical Extraction. Not only is it impossible in some scenarios, but exiling Punishing Fire so that you can abuse Deathrite Shaman, or so that you can tick up Liliana or a miser's Jace, is is a very real play. So is exiling Dark Depths or whatever utility land may be in the way of setting sail with Goyf.
Taking out Loam is the common play, but it's far from the only play, and noting those times is what makes the difference between winning and losing.
That guy said its the tarmogoyf rule
You need to get the loam with surgical. Its fuels their deck 10x more than the punishing fire. Punishing fire can be stopped much more easily.
well of course you would board out thoughtseizes and dazes first. you may as well say i'm going to board in jace too. Even though i'm not sure its ran.
i just confirmed the rule. thanks for the clarification. That judge was wrong...same with the error about the gilded drake rule.
So in my case, against Lands it would be preferred to:
Side Out: 2 Thoughtseize, 3 Hymn, 4 Daze
Side In: 1 Extraction, 2 Charm, 1 Needle, 1 Pierce, 1 Lily, 1 Clique, 1 FoW, 1 Library
Would you agree with this assessment, that those boarding in seem better than those going out? Another way to say it, is that the boarding out are not really good against Lands, so anything marginally better should go in.
A question for Stifle pilots: Is Divert good enough to side in purely as a defensive counterspell versus decks that don't run "obvious" Divert targets (e.g. Abrupt Decay, StP, burn spells)? I'm never sure if I'm supposed to bring them in versus, say, combo decks.
Counter is better than discard, countering their exploration is very crucial, also they can be a fast combo deck.
I am not sure if Lilly should go in, I don't see it is efficient maybe I am wrong.
Team Blood, Beijing.
Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands
Divert is not an exclusively specific sb card for stifle version in the first place, you can play divert in any blue based deck in a meta flooded with bgx decks. It is a dead card against combo in most cases.
Team Blood, Beijing.
Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands
I've brought it in against lots of decks - it's strictly better than Pierce against Burn, it's an extra counter against Miracles and Show and Tell decks; it's even got fringe applications against Reanimator.
I think the discard version of this deck is more powerful overall. It's not like it doesn't run counters or its own Bobs (run 4 Force, 4 Daze and a Pierce main with some combination of 2-3 Pierce, Divert, and Flusterstorm in the board), and being able to use your mana every turn is great. Liliana is huge in the long game, especially postboard when you not only have Bob, but have Sylvan Library as well. This might not hold for the Stifle version, but I usually board into a BGx midrage deck with some number of Forces in the mirror or against anything slower than us except Shardless.
I was refering to the sideboard strategy some mentioned above against lands, I doubt he wants more lilly in lands mu postboard...
I never played stifle version of team america and feel a little confused why u explained this to me?
Team Blood, Beijing.
Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands
I misread your post, sorry. That being said, I actually like Liliana postboard against Lands because there are situations where they're forced to make Marit Lage on their turn. She's 1BB for an Edict, yes, but she's also your only out to the token. Liliana isn't an all-star against Lands, but you don't have a ton of tools outside of Surgical Extraction and Wasteland.I was refering to the sideboard strategy some mentioned above against lands, I doubt he wants more lilly in lands mu postboard...
I never played stifle version of team america and feel a little confused why u explained this to me?
Divert works against Gitaxian Probe and Abrupt Decay, Void Snare and Chain of Vapor if you have alternate targets available.. I could see tuning it in to have additional blue count for Force of Will and to try to deflect the probes if you get the chance. This assuming you have dead cards in the list that want to come out.
If you have it in the SB for other reasons you might tune it in against ANT or TES. In RUG you wouldn't because REB's will come in but in BUG it might be the best of a bad set of options.
Diverting gitaxian probe is not what we want, keeping information at the cost of card disadvantage?
Very rarely u have alternate target in terms of decay or bounce spell in combo match-up except your own. If they bounce your cage, more often u can only bounce your own creature with divert...
I cannot understand what his or her sb would be like if someone told me he or she has to sideboard divert in against storm...
Team Blood, Beijing.
Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands
Ok, so as an example. A Storm player frequently holds a Gitaxian Probe and a Duress for the turn they will go off on. They probe you to see what the situation is and then they Duress you to remove your counter/Brainstorm and then they go off.
So you boarded in Flusterstorm, because that's what it's there for. You boarded in maybe a Hydroblast or BEB if you had it in your sideboard to use against Past in Flames if they were trying to flash it back. There isn't a lot else in a BUG sideboard that is going to be much use against ANT or TES. Many BUG sideboards don't bother with the Hydroblast or BEB either. So realistically you had 1 instant speed spell to board in against your opponent alongside maybe a Pithing Needle or two for LED.
Now on the turn the opponent is going off Flusterstorm is going to be useless if they approach it from the probe ya, duress ya angle of attack. You're going to need 2 blue counters on that turn to have a chance to survive. Adding Divert, which is not in your SB for Storm but gives you another option may be a good option. Particularly if you're boarding out an extra Disfigure or Abrupt Decay to get there. Xantid Swarm is a thing and you have to watch out for it but having more than 5 ways to interact with it after it hits the board is probably a net negative, since swarm is all those things reliably interact with.
If I had a Divert in my SB for use against Jund and the mirror and maybe anything I think will try to Thoughtseize or Hymn or kill me really quickly with burn I might well side it in against Storm even though it only interacts with probe and things likely to kill my early clock or needles.
Have the rules changed? How does Pithing Needle stop LED?
http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulesti...g-restriction/
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