[Primer/Deck] Burn

[Chatto]

Um I don't know if you want to board out Sulfuric Vortex vs. Sneak attack. The ability to turn off Griselbrand's life gain is kind of huge. Plus that deck also you know, ussually runs 4 leyline.

Ooh I know, but I've never been lucky enough to get to three mana as they just went in with Emrakul first, or counter Vortex if I had three lands. Luck isn't on my side when facing SnT. In fact, I only won a game once, and all because of my opponent being manascrewed. Now the last time I played P-Needle on Griselbrand, while keeping burn-pressure: just narrowly lost, again

[Nordvoll]

Ooh I know, but I've never been lucky enough to get to three mana as they just went in with Emrakul first, or counter Vortex if I had three lands. Luck isn't on my side when facing SnT. In fact, I only won a game once, and all because of my opponent being manascrewed. Now the last time I played P-Needle on Griselbrand, while keeping burn-pressure: just narrowly lost, again

A resolved Show & tell will help you with that

[Krimson Viper]

Got my teeth kicked in again. I feel like I had some bad luck, bad plays, and just a bad time. Still love the deck though. My deck list:

4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blaze
4 Rift Bolt
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

3 Arid Mesa
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
9 Mountain

3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Shattering Spree
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Vexing Shusher
4 Sudden Shock
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Sulfuric Vortex
I won a grand total of zero matches and one official game lol. I say that because I got a game loss for presenting and playing a fifty six card deck and not realizing it until we go to sideboards. We played out the following two games just for fun.

Game one against some kind of Esper Deathblade deck. It had two Stifle, one Counterbalance and one Sensei's Divining Top. I got him all the way down to one life, but he had Counterbalance in play with Liliana of the Veil and Jace. I would have had him if I it were Comp REL and I didn't know him. I cast Bolt to kill him, he said ok, then as he is picking up his graveyard he remembers his Counterbalance trigger and blind flips a Brainstorm. Downhill from there for me as I just get nothing but lands. Thank you Jace. I'm sure that if I had taken out his turn one DRS this game would have been mine.
I can't remember what I side out and in, but I'm pretty sure it's my artifact hate cards and out Grim. Game two mull to six and I keep a land heavy hand and it's just too slow. I know I saw none of my SB cards though because I was questioning killed by Skull beats.

Match two is against some kind of home brew combo deck. It was based off of Spanish Inquisition. He combos off turn three or four and down to six life and I mulled to five here. Game two was a loss because this is where I left out my Searing Blaze by accident. I knew I took out my SB after match one. We play it out and I have a blazingly fast hand with Eidolon turn two for insurance purposes. Game three, I think he would have won if he fetched for his basics like he knew she should have, but I PoP for six and Bolt his life after GG beats. I'm pretty sure I took out Vortex for Crypt and Searing Blaze for Sudden Shock.

Match three was against Miracles with SFM + equipment. Game one went on for something like ten and more turns. I didn't know what he was on until he found Counter + Top and I spent all three of my Rift Bolts and kept three Lava Spike in hand. Face palm as I'm locked out of the game for a very slow death from Clique. Out Searing Blaze and PoP, in Sudden Shock, Vortex, and artifact hate. Game two was won after a mull to five and countering until he had Batterskull in play found off of SFM tutored for it.

Match four was against BUG Delver. Game one was close, but he won off of two Goyfs. I casted Sulfuric Vortex with four lands in play and a Grim. He was down to four life and he played Daze to counter my Vortex. I should have paid it instead of using Grim to block and burn as he had no answer to Vortex and it would have killed him on his next upkeep. Instead I drew a land my following turn and died from the crack back of the Goyfs. Game two I win from a back and forth race. Game three I mull to five and keep a single land hand and nothing but a GG and two mana or more spells. Delver gets him there. I bring in two Crypts I hope to shrink his Goys and side out Vortex as the added hits to myself is extremely deciding. I think I should have just brough out Spike and brought in Sudden Shock for uncounterable answers for Delver and DRS.

I lost the die roll all day. What would I have changed in the deck? I think I will be moving to Flame Rift instead of Searing Blaze and putting the third Vortex into my main. My side would have changed to add one more artifact hate as Tezzeret and Thopter Combo came out to play today. Seriously, fifteen players and three were Tezz control, one on Thopter Combo, and another on Cloudnaught. SFM decks as well.

Well, I won't be playing Magic until a month or two before November. I need to save money for a move and every little bit counts. I'll still be sticking around the boards though. Here and MTGS.

[datanaga]

Got my teeth kicked in again. I feel like I had some bad luck, bad plays, and just a bad time. Still love the deck though. My deck list:

4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blaze
4 Rift Bolt
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

3 Arid Mesa
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
9 Mountain

3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Shattering Spree
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Vexing Shusher
4 Sudden Shock
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Sulfuric Vortex
I won a grand total of zero matches and one official game lol. I say that because I got a game loss for presenting and playing a fifty six card deck and not realizing it until we go to sideboards. We played out the following two games just for fun.

Game one against some kind of Esper Deathblade deck. It had two Stifle, one Counterbalance and one Sensei's Divining Top. I got him all the way down to one life, but he had Counterbalance in play with Liliana of the Veil and Jace. I would have had him if I it were Comp REL and I didn't know him. I cast Bolt to kill him, he said ok, then as he is picking up his graveyard he remembers his Counterbalance trigger and blind flips a Brainstorm. Downhill from there for me as I just get nothing but lands. Thank you Jace. I'm sure that if I had taken out his turn one DRS this game would have been mine.
I can't remember what I side out and in, but I'm pretty sure it's my artifact hate cards and out Grim. Game two mull to six and I keep a land heavy hand and it's just too slow. I know I saw none of my SB cards though because I was questioning killed by Skull beats.

Match two is against some kind of home brew combo deck. It was based off of Spanish Inquisition. He combos off turn three or four and down to six life and I mulled to five here. Game two was a loss because this is where I left out my Searing Blaze by accident. I knew I took out my SB after match one. We play it out and I have a blazingly fast hand with Eidolon turn two for insurance purposes. Game three, I think he would have won if he fetched for his basics like he knew she should have, but I PoP for six and Bolt his life after GG beats. I'm pretty sure I took out Vortex for Crypt and Searing Blaze for Sudden Shock.

Match three was against Miracles with SFM + equipment. Game one went on for something like ten and more turns. I didn't know what he was on until he found Counter + Top and I spent all three of my Rift Bolts and kept three Lava Spike in hand. Face palm as I'm locked out of the game for a very slow death from Clique. Out Searing Blaze and PoP, in Sudden Shock, Vortex, and artifact hate. Game two was won after a mull to five and countering until he had Batterskull in play found off of SFM tutored for it.

Match four was against BUG Delver. Game one was close, but he won off of two Goyfs. I casted Sulfuric Vortex with four lands in play and a Grim. He was down to four life and he played Daze to counter my Vortex. I should have paid it instead of using Grim to block and burn as he had no answer to Vortex and it would have killed him on his next upkeep. Instead I drew a land my following turn and died from the crack back of the Goyfs. Game two I win from a back and forth race. Game three I mull to five and keep a single land hand and nothing but a GG and two mana or more spells. Delver gets him there. I bring in two Crypts I hope to shrink his Goys and side out Vortex as the added hits to myself is extremely deciding. I think I should have just brough out Spike and brought in Sudden Shock for uncounterable answers for Delver and DRS.

I lost the die roll all day. What would I have changed in the deck? I think I will be moving to Flame Rift instead of Searing Blaze and putting the third Vortex into my main. My side would have changed to add one more artifact hate as Tezzeret and Thopter Combo came out to play today. Seriously, fifteen players and three were Tezz control, one on Thopter Combo, and another on Cloudnaught. SFM decks as well.

Well, I won't be playing Magic until a month or two before November. I need to save money for a move and every little bit counts. I'll still be sticking around the boards though. Here and MTGS.

I understand you completely, because it sounds like my last 5+ tournaments playing burn (similar build with main: 3lavamancers/3blazes/2vortexs/20lands(10fetches)), every time I finished 20 (prizes are for 3:1 or better)

btw never ever side in crypts vs goyfs they are useless!

[Sloshthedark]

I understand you completely, because it sounds like my last 5+ last tournaments with burn (similar build with main: 3lavamancers/3blazes/2vortexs/20lands(10fetches)), every time I finished 20 (prizes are for 3:1 or better)

btw never ever side in crypts vs goyfs is useless!

time to step up from a 2:2 deck to a 3:1 deck ; )

[datanaga]

time to step up from a 2:2 deck to a 3:1 deck ; )

True, with burn you need some extra luck (good draws and pairings) and then it works really well, but that is not my case:(

You know what I already buid and I'm working on?:)

[Dr. No Face]

Am I the only one that runs Swiftspear anymore? Whenever I see a burn list do well, it seems to run 11 creatures, 4 being goblin guide, 4 being eidolon, and 3 being lavamancers.

I mean, I guess 1 damage on turn 1 isn't good, but it helps close the game out quickly by being bigger for the other 3 turns they are alive typically.

My list for reference (a bit more creature heavy) :


4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Monastery Swiftspear
1 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
3 Searing Blaze
2 Sulfuric Vortex

4 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
11 Mountain

SB: 2 Vexing Shusher
SB: 2 Volcanic Fallout
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Searing Blood
SB: 2 Shattering Spree
SB: 2 Pyrostatic Pillar


I've been needing to replace Crypt with Faerie Macabre. Other than that, any comments? I've been liking this list a lot so far.

[f7eleven]

Other than that, any comments? I've been liking this list a lot so far.

Personally, I prefer my deck to be exactly 60 cards, and not 61. I started with burn with your same creature suite a few weeks ago and am now on the more common 4-4-3 (no swiftspears). There's several comments throughout this thread explaining why lavamancer is better than swiftspear. Or just keep playing the deck, and you'll get there on your own like almost everyone has.

[Sloshthedark]

True, with burn you need some extra luck (good draws and pairings) and then it works really well, but that is not my case:(

You know what I already buid and I'm working on?:)

Feels like I have a Manaless vs. Burn flashback .. I'm not sure If performance improves, I'll be most happy to get paired with you... on the other side I Dredge is great B deck when people are unprepared, Burn falls in the same "rogue" category kind of ... other than that just buy some Seas and play magic ...

[datanaga]

Feels like I have a Manaless vs. Burn flashback .. I'm not sure If performance improves, I'll be most happy to get paired with you... on the other side I Dredge is great B deck when people are unprepared, Burn falls in the same "rogue" category kind of ... other than that just buy some Seas and play magic ...

You are right (as usual) see: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post871814
On the other hand, it was not planned, I just accidentaly bought it for cheap:)
On more serious note I also have Infect and BWg Deadguy prepared, I almost hear you laughing at these decks, because no one is tier 1:)
Maybe one day I will sell all of them and buy into something like bug delver/esper blade variant and pimp it up, like you did with ANT, but now Im happy with 4 deck I can build at the same time.

[echofish]

Does anyone have any side board tech against omnitell? I used to run Ashen Rider, but nowdays they will show Omniscience and wish for Trickbind and counter Ashen Rider's ETB trigger. Don't bother mention Pyroblast, because they always have more counterspells.

[Ultrab77]

Hi,

Just wanted to share a few thoughts after I top4'd our monthly event at the store.

My list (totally classic)


4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
3 Searing Blaze
2 Sulfuric Vortex

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
11 Mountain

SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Smash to Smithereens
SB: 2 Searing Blood



The meta was lot of aggro and Elves. I went 4-1 :

Round 1 vs Elves (2-1) : G1 I T1 GG, T2 bolt his DRS, T3 Eidolon and it's game. G2 I side in searing blood and bridge but he comboes out T4. G3 I burn him down to 3 with no card in hand left. His board is ready for combo but I draw a bolt :)

Round 2 vs Patriot Delver (2-0) : I don't remember well but it was 2 easy games, I just bolted the Delver and burned him out.

Round 3 vs Dredge (2-0) : G1 I'm on the play, he dies to my T4 double Fireblast. G2 I bring in my Relics and we both mull to 4 (!!) and I keep 2 mountains, EotGR, bolt. He does't draw a land for the first 3 turns and I just kill him attacking with Eidolon and 2 lavamancers and eventually a little burn.

Round 4 vs Canadian Threshold (2-0) : two tough, close games. Don't remember well G1 but G2 my Relic did the job, I'm down to 5 but I kill his 2 Tarmo and 1 Delver in one turn. Then I just attack and finish with a FB.

Round 5 vs Miracles (1-2) : G1 he has the lock on table, down to 5. The counterbalance counter my first FB by revealing Terminus. Then he fetches but I play my 2nd FB too quick so it was judged as an answer to the fetch and he can counter it again (my mistake). I eventually draw a Vortex and he can't answer, it's a win. G2 and G3 I get my Needle for his Top, but he crushes me with angels tokens.

We decided then to split the prize because it was already late.

I just played a match vs a cool guy I had met, playing MUD. My *ss is still sour from the two hard defeats with Trinisphere and the Golem on the table.

So here a few humble comments:
- Relic and Needle were very good!!
- I didn't bring in the REB, I'm thinking to switch with Vexing Shusher especially for Miracles where I feel like a hudge underdog
- playing vs MUD was a complete catastrophy!! Any idea? I brought in my StS but I think I should have mulled for mana intensive hands.

So if you have any idea for helping in matchups vs Miracles and MUD (there were 2 or 3 of both) it would help!

Thanks

[paeng4983]

- I didn't bring in the REB, I'm thinking to switch with Vexing Shusher especially for Miracles where I feel like a hudge underdog

Yep! Never leave this devil behind. It is a house vs CB-top lock.

- playing vs MUD was a complete catastrophy!! Any idea? I brought in my StS but I think I should have mulled for mana intensive hands

Bridge and Smash is enough (I guess). Just pray that he will not set his COTV at 2.

So if you have any idea for helping in matchups vs Miracles and MUD (there were 2 or 3 of both) it would help!
Thanks

vs. Miracles
in: 2 Needle, 3 V.Devil,
out: 2 Guide, 3 S.Blaze

vs. MUD
in: 3 Bridge, 3 Smash
out: 2 Guide, 4 Eidolon

I hope this helps you.
^_^

[sirlaser]

Hello,

New Burn player here. Question about sideboard grave hate.

I'm unfamiliar with the probabilities of drawing at least one of a 4-of in your opening hand, or within the first 1-3 mulligans, but no one seems to run Leyline of the Void?

Can someone explain? Thank you!

[xieyun006]

Hello,

New Burn player here. Question about sideboard grave hate.

I'm unfamiliar with the probabilities of drawing at least one of a 4-of in your opening hand, or within the first 1-3 mulligans, but no one seems to run Leyline of the Void?

Can someone explain? Thank you!

Most decks you can use Leyline against can deal with it, making aggressive mulligan for this card not worth while, since it won't lock them out completely. This coupled with the fact that if you draw multiples, or draw into them after the game has started they are completely dead cards. Also doesn't work very well against goyfs since it'll still get fat off of your grave. These are my reasons for not playing Leylines.

[Chatto]

Hello,

New Burn player here. Question about sideboard grave hate.

I'm unfamiliar with the probabilities of drawing at least one of a 4-of in your opening hand, or within the first 1-3 mulligans, but no one seems to run Leyline of the Void?

Can someone explain? Thank you!

Well, because you DON'T want to mull for a LotV. You don't have a way to refill your hand, so mulling for them is a bad thing. You don't want multiples, because most of the time you are unable to cast them during the game. That's it, if I'm not mistaken.

EDIT: ninja'd

[sirlaser]

Most decks you can use Leyline against can deal with it, making aggressive mulligan for this card not worth while, since it won't lock them out completely. This coupled with the fact that if you draw multiples, or draw into them after the game has started they are completely dead cards. Also doesn't work very well against goyfs since it'll still get fat off of your grave. These are my reasons for not playing Leylines.

Well, because you DON'T want to mull for a LotV. You don't have a way to refill your hand, so mulling for them is a bad thing. You don't want multiples, because most of the time you are unable to cast them during the game. That's it, if I'm not mistaken.

Thank you! Follow up question - if you had a choice, then, between:

Tormod's Crypt
Relic of Progenitus
Grafdigger's Cage

Which one would you run? Are there more suitable options than these three?

[Chatto]

I had a similair discussion with friends, and we came up with the following:

Combo:
Leyline (only Dredge)
Surgical Extraction
Crypt
Grafdigger's Cage (slow combo)

Control:
Grafdigger's Cage
Relic

Aggro:
Faerie Macabre
Surgical Extraction
Crypt

Midrange:
Leyline (you can mull to LotV because every card has a high impact)
Relic
Crypt

Right now I'm running Crypt, because it's free. It's really meta-depending, really

[bigwerdz]

I switched from relic of progenitus to tormod's crypt. The cantrip off relic was nice but I like not losing tempo when using crypt. I've found that if I can keep up my normal pace that dumping the graveyard once is enough.

[Krimson Viper]

I switched from relic of progenitus to tormod's crypt. The cantrip off relic was nice but I like not losing tempo when using crypt. I've found that if I can keep up my normal pace that dumping the graveyard once is enough.

I'm with this guy.

Bigwerdz, you missed the stream today. A Burn player grilled a Miracles player, 2-0. It was amazing.