I like that all the creatures in the list have 'reach' a problem for some creatures like Goblin Guide and Swiftspear which fade in the midgame. But holding open a blue mana for Stifle or Spell Pierce with so many 3cc seems to be a bit problematic for speed of the deck. Has this been a problem at all?Originally Posted by rhames
So I played this deck in a super IQ (71 people) and I got to top 4 with my only loss through the whole tournament being RUG delver. Hope this helps open some opinions on the deck and hopefully it isn't a grindy read. I don't post much on here but I love delver decks and have a pretty good rep with them. So maybe I should give back to the community with my experiences.
My list: Pretty much the treasure cruise list but DTT instead of cruise.
4 Delver
4 Young Pyro
4 Swiftspear
4 Lightning Bolts
2 Forked Bolt
1 Dismember - (I already felt that goyf was going to be a thing, why I MD)
1 Price of Progress - My meta has a bit of lands, 12 post, mud, and LOTS of delver decks.
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig through Time
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
5 Blue Fetches
SB:
2 Bloodmoons - same reason as the PoP.
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Pyroblast
1 True Name Nemisis - for the grindy match ups.
1 Pithing Needle - Miracles/catch all
2 Fluster Storm - Feel like combo is a tough match up still, was thinking edilon might help the storm match up?
1 Sulfuric Vortex - Mostly for Miracles
2 Submerge - More anti goyf.
1 Grafdiggers Cage - Elves/GY hate
7 Rounds Swiss Cut to Top 8
1 - DNT: 1st game stabalized at 1 life thanks to some dig through times finding bolts, 2nd game kept 1 island, delver, BS on the draw hand but never found a land. 3rd he mulled to 5 gg.
2 - Grixis/DRS Delver: I think was in 3. I think the first one i won off PoP again stabalized at 1 life and second one got a bloodmoon lock on him. I lost another game cause I kept another island, cantrip, delver hand. Wiffed on lands and drew all red spells. Sometimes the basics hurt. No goyf means we can remove everything he plays and out draw with DTT as long as we don't get stifled/wasted out of the game.
4 - SFM/YP/Delver: G1: He got TNN with in play, but I was able to burn him out before he got the combo online. G2: He hard cast a Batterskull, I had a smash to smithereens he knew about from a delver flip. I read he had a FoW to protect his BS, but i find another smash from a ponder. Opponent went on tilt.
3 - UR Painter: Felt pretty easy to beat, pyroblasts, bolts, daze, force. I forced his tops a lot but he would force back and run low on cards to combo off, and my threats got there before he found any action even with top.
5 - 12 Post: G1 I forced his T1 expedition map, but he played 2 more later, but it seemed to tempo him enough for the win. G2 he was stalling out withglacial chasm. When he finally couldnt pay the upkeep I PoPed him.
6&7 - Double Draw into top 8.
Top8:
I played the 12 post player again, he got one game on me by tapping out on a primevil titan I knew was coming but I couldnt find a daze or force for it.
G2: He has glacial chasm on me again and he resolves a primevil titan at around 4 life. He is debating to get Eye of ugin to go for the kill or glimmer post? (the one that gains life) to try to dodge burn. I put my biggest poker face on cause I had two bolts in hand... I got there. Although I think I still had it cause I had a YP in play and had plenty to sac for the annihilator trigger and can counter swing for lethal. G3: I resolved a bloodmoon and just kind of won.
Quarter - RUG Delver: I watched this guy play against grixis delver earlier and he was really rude, trying to troll the player for slow play, calling judges, singing/rapping out loud while the player was tanking, passive aggressive BS. At this point I'm already qualified for an IQ thanks to an SCG open and fortunately we all split top 4. I just wanted to dream crush him from the invite. Unfortunately I could not do it. G1 I have YP and was able to beat a 4 goyf game by making lots of tokens and flying over with delver. G2 I just get smoked by goyfs and gooses. He roughs my board and I can't deal with those threats. G3: I go for the gambit and slam a T3 bloodmoon but he kept his dazes in on the draw. He slamed multiple goyfs and I could not come back. I think my opponenet realized his rudeness and did seem to lighten up when I played him thankfully. I hate people who try to win by sharking or trying to put their opponents on tilt. Win through skill and being a good player, not cheating and being an ass. That won't get you far in this game or life.
My overall opinions on the deck, I was in love with it during the tournament. Felt very similar to the UR Treasure cruise build. I will admit, U vs UU cc is a thing and having that 1 extra card is too. Think of it like, You cast TC for U, you find a land and knowing delver decks you usually didn't play your land yet, so it essentially became a free cc draw 2, so you can chain spells easier to pump YP or SS. Or you just find 3 action spells, both scenarios good. DTT played more like, you find the counter magic to hold your lead, find the burn for the kill, or find the threat. Honestly TC is still better, in essence TC lets you see almost as much cards as DTT cause you use that free U mana to cast a cantrip you most likely will hit to dig more for what you need. Only upside is DTT is instant but the way UR is built, it doesn't really matter too much and I suppose you rarely get the 2x/3x land draw TC sometimes gives you, but that's what brainstorm is for.
p.s. Played this deck again at a small tourney scrubbed out right away against RUG delver again and Burn. Little on tilt with the deck now lol. I tried to up my submerge count to 3 for the goyf match ups. Might go back to BUG delver cause I hate not being able to kill goyfs... The burn match up came down to me casting a DTT for a bolt with a sulfuric vortex trigger about to kill me on the stack. DTT is not a demonic tutor sometimes...
I really like your list. I've been playing either straight UR like yours or URb (one page earlier) with 2 maindeck Tasigurs. The straight UR one's simply faster which I really like. Regarding your concern about the storm/ combo matchup: What do you think about adding 1 Underground Sea 4 Cabal Therapy to your board? You can just change 1 island for 1 sea as your lands won't be under pressure anyway, and black gives you access to Cabal Therapy, which is huge alone and even better with YP. This allows you to attack Storm in different angles (Counterspells, Discard, troublesome stuff like Cage, fast clock). You can also board it against any imaginable kind of (non-wasteland) deck, too.
I personally like it a lot.
Putting an underground is totally viable. I was just expecting a lot of wasteland decks and was hedging around that by going straight UR. But I will admit I did try the black splash before and I felt I always drew the underground by itself or or the cabals with no fetch for the black a lot of the times. Tasigur seems beast, I would like to know how others have liked using him or the Angler guy? I feel like it's not as good against jace/karakas especially if you plan to run cruise with it is my concern.
Does anyone know what Eli's list from SCG Invi is? Is he playing pyro at all?
I played a pretty aggressive version of UR at the Invitational. I really liked my list but the decks I played against were much different than the ones I expected to play against. I went 5-3 in the Legacy portion.
Wins: Esper Deathblade, BUG Delver, UWR Delver, Lands, Burn
Losses: Lands, Lands, Infect
In the future I may be boarding something like Vapor Snag (over Eidolon). I've never had so many 20/20s in play against me in my life... Also of note, that made me 0-4 lifetime against infect. That matchup may need some help (vapor snag does some work there as well)
List I played.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Goblin Guide
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress
1 Forked Bolt
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Ponder
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Pyroblast
1 Price of Progress
2 Flusterstorm
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Smelt
2 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Surgical Extraction
Why zero digs? Not even 1? Can you elaborate why? thanks
I think there are 2 different ways to play "UR Delver" now. My list plays the way UR delver was played before cruise. The dig versions play the way it was played after cruise. Very different decks. Dig through time would be way too clunky in my version because that's not the kind of game this deck wants to play. I just stuck with the style I was comfortable with.
Thank you for the quick reply. To be honest I prefer your version because is more proactive
Agreed. I'm not entirely sure it is the correct build but I like the logic behind it. One of the big issues with pre-cruise UR was that it had a bit of a rough time winning games when you didn't have a turn 1 dude. The idea with this was to always have a turn 1 creature. The consistency felt great. Playing against Lands 3 times... did not.
Hey Andrew, I've been a fan of yours since I've first seen you on camera, and it's a pleasure to be able to have some chats with you about this deck we both appreciate a lot! Hope you don't mind answering some questions of mine about it!
Do you feel like this more board-centered approach you took from usual burn lists (9 removal spells and 15 creatures instead of the usual - at least for me - 8/12 removal/creatures) has been working better than the older approaches for the post-TC meta?
I agree with your argument about TC, but don't you think it would give you a better reach for finding what you want after first 4 turns (where it starts losing it's strenght against more late-game aggro decks)? Do you feel like the virtual 10-13 copies of burn (snapcasters) are enough to help you getting through that stage of the game where it all can fall apart?
Hasn't the ponder cut been critical in some stages of the game? I've been playing 4 copies of it since forever and it's been helping me a lot finding what I need in some stages of the game.
Talking about sideboard strategy:
I assume Eidolon hasn't worked all that well since you considered changing it for vapor snag, it that correct?
About the Artifact removal spell, do you consider SFM+spell pierce being still that critical for you not to run smash to smithereens instead, which gives you 1 extra burn and can destroy chalice for 1? Has it been better because of SCM flashing back smelt for 3 mana, instead of 4 mana (Smash to smithereens) which is harder to reach?
About surgical, without consider grave-oriented strategies (where it's a no-brainer), what kind of decks is that a good boarding option against?
When you board in lavamancer (aggro matchups), do you take out some creatures for you not to overload on creatures?
And now a weird question about a card that I think would be really fun to play: Have you ever thought about running noxious revival on this deck? What do you think about it?
Dark Depths is one of the reasons why I've preferred Vapor Snag to be in my SB since I suggested it in this thread. ^^
Hi!
I might have missed the key argument, but why do you prefer vapor snag over submerge?
I imagine because lands isn't guaranteed to have a forest in play after they got marit in play.
In short: Vapor Snag is more versatile.
+ can be used without a forest in play and thus against a wider variety of creatures and decks (e.g. Reanimator, Merfolk, MUD, Painter)
+ Snapcaster Mageable
+ 1 dmg
+ save your own creature + replay it w/o a draw
- puts it in hand / no shuffle shenanigans
- costs U
Thanks.
I actually never encountered rea, that is why for me submerge is superior. But I might reconsider it :)
Thanks! Let me start off by saying I took a bit of a magic break during Treasure Cruise legacy (not because of Treasure Cruise or anything, my life just got much busier) so you all have way more time in with the deck than I do.
Board centered approach: I honestly don't think this is much more "board centered" than the list I used to play. Basically I just cut the 3rd Ponder, the 4th Goblin Guide, and the main deck Lavamancers from my old list to make room for the 4 swiftspears. I think this change really helps the consistency.
Assuming you meant Dig Through Time for the 2nd question: I really don't think my version needs/wants dig through time. All of the cards do essentially the same thing right (except for the awful counterspells)? I'm not really sure what I'm in the market to tutor for. Especially at the cost of having a card in my hand that I can't cast for a good part of the game. It feels very wrong to me.
Ponder: Cutting ponder doesn't feel good and I don't have a good response. Ponder is one of the best cards in the deck past turn 1 and I'm sure I'll start to notice the shave at some point. That said, I think I'd rather have the consistency of having a one drop over having the 3rd/4th ponder, but its tough.
Eidolon: I didn't test it or anything. It just seemed good against Elves and Storm. Those are both decks that I've played against a ton at previous invitationals. Not that I thought those matchups needed help I just had 2 slots available. I do think I'll want something like Vapor Snag in the future. I can't think of anything more versatile that can handle a 20/20.
Artifact Removal: Its all because of the UWR stoneforge/spell pierce deck. I would love to play Smash, but as long as that deck is around I am going to be playing smelt. It does make you WAY worse against chalice, but that's a gamble I'm ok with making. I would never call it wrong for someone to play smash instead.
Surgical: I think the only non graveyard deck I bring it in against is High Tide. If you can surgical their hightides before they timespiral you're in a really good spot.
Lavamancer: It depends on the matchup. First out always are the 6 counterspells. Then probably a guide or 2 depending.
Noxious Revival: Haha, I have not thought about that card before. It seems a little like a 5th snapcaster right...only way way worse :)
Yes! All of that.
Don't you think it'd be really good to add a singleton fireblast? What would you cut for it?
I don't. I really don't like playing situational cards. Exception made for price of progress of course.
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