You'd be surprised. Nic Fit is a very popular deck among the...lesser educated of legacy's populace. You can meander any large SCG or legacy GP and see multiple Nic Fit players. Only a handful (usually players from this thread) ever do well, though. People look at the deck and go OOH STANDARD CARDS AND BASICS and think it's a get out jail free card for getting into legacy, and then get swiftly and severely punished.Originally Posted by sdematt
Interesting takes on Scape.
Could you elaborate more on some of your choices ?
3 CT -> none in the side ?
1 GSZ in the side ?
1 ruination -> how is the card for you, I feel like it is only good against MUD and 12 post to some extend (I am wondering if SLG is not better but maybe you have a good call here) ?
I have completely reworked the mana base on my side to better fit with the black sideboard and end up with this:
24 lands / 10 mountains
2 Swamps
1 Mountain
3 Forest
4 Badlands
4 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
2 Valakut
1 Karakas
14 creatures
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura tribe elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
3 Huntmaster of the Fell
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Primeval Titan
22 other spells
3 Sensei
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
4 GSZ
4 Burning Wish
1 Scapeshift
Sideboard
1 Militant dryad
3 Carpet of flower
1 Thoughtseize
1 Innocent blood
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Pyroclasm
1 Toxic deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
3 Slaughter games
I used to be playing REB in the side but eventually I got rid of them as we are more a "tapped out style of deck" rather than a reactive one.
REB is better against blue combo decks and as a reactive spell but discard has a wider application against the legacy (meta) field.
This deck is 'less' about winning with the combo.
10 mountains / 1 scape MD but I have yet to experience any problem with.
I'm pretty happy with the 3 anti-Emmy cards MD (Titan, Titania, Karakas)
Titania is really a powerhouse. Stalling grounds, closing games fast (even scaping just to get a bunch of 5/3 is a big deal).
I'm wondering why there are so few Nic Fit lists playing her at the moment.
Most certainly.
I run 3 CT / 2 Thoughtseize in the main over 4 CT because I also have a sac outlet via Phyrexian tower. Not to mention I've had this sequence of plays happen quite a few times:
T1 Thoughtseize
T2 Cabal Therapy, Veteran Explorer, Flashback
That sequence creates an almost auto-win situation against any deck.
I run a Thoughtseize in the board as a wish target over CT because I find myself needing it against Combo based decks where I wouldn't know what card they have and would prefer to hit something of worth besides swinging for the fence and coming up empty.
Having GSZ as a wish target has been incredible for me. In essence, you are running 7 copies of it as you have 3 in the MD and 4 BW to grab the one in the SB. Sometimes, bad draws happen and you draw all your red sources which would make a scapeshift at 7 lands less effective. If I am at 6-7 lands and most of them red sources, I would wish for GSZ and get a threat like Thrun or Huntmaster to apply pressure that way. Honestly, I find myself winning more games by my opponents being overrun with Thrun, Huntmaster, and Prime time than comboing with scapeshift. A lot of delver players scoop after you wiped the board with deed and then drop a thragtusk.
Ruination is a beast. I also live in New England which is where 12 post runs rampant. But aside from the 12 post matchup. Popping deeds against any delver deck and following it up with Ruination is game over. This is also legacy, where a lot of the decks run manabases built on dual lands, so Ruination is just awesome. Not to mention if Lands.dec is in your meta Ruination just goes the distance against them.
Right now I am only running 2 sweepers as targets (Pyroclasm and Massacre) because in my meta I don't have a lot of TNN decks. I cut Pyroblast and a Toxic Deluge to have a few flex spots in my SB and those are currently GSZ and Ruination. I don't see myself cutting GSZ in the foreseeable future, I might cut Ruination if I were to go to a GP or something where the format would be more diverse and I could find a card better suited to the meta.
I wouldn't cut Pyroblasts entirely but definitely wouldn't run more than 2. One of the issues this deck has against blue based combo (OmniTell, Sneaky Show, High Tide, etc.) is that fact that we simply just don't have enough cards to SB in against. Abrupt Decays and Pernicious Deeds are dead cards against these decks, and very rarely would I say I am tapping out each turn. As much as I would love to, it just isn't in the cards most of the time (no pun intended...okay, maybe a little).
I'll bring in against these decks 1 Thoughtseize, 3 Slaughter Games, and 2 Pyroblasts for the 6 Abrupt Decay / Pernicious Deed. I'd also cut a few explorers as these decks usually run basics and bring in Carpets.
Let me know if you have anymore questions.
Thank you for your feedback.
I am playing 3 CT + 2 TS MD since a very longtime. But I do like a lot the CT staying in the side for the reason you mentioned -> if you get to see opponent's hand, wishing for a double CT will most likely be backbreaking for him.
I don't remember having ever had the idea of putting a GSZ in the side. Good catch and I'll test your idea. To be honest, I'm not sure I like it a lot since the first GSZ is mostly for a ramp piece (Vet Ex) or for another ramp piece (pun intended) and I feel like I would dilute the deck with less GSZ MD but it has to be tested before drawing any meaningful conclusion.
Since there is not a lot of 12 post in my area but a bunch of Elves, D&T and such, I'll stay with the toxic.
Don't forget that sideboard is very flexible with this deck (especially Scape, in particular). You can always side in (out) a Green Sun's for matchups where Wish is less good (Miracles comes to mind, here). On the other hand, siding a Zenith out against something like a Jund or a Shardless is fine because it diametrically increases your threat density, since all of your wishes are then also the best creature in your deck alongside representing the possibility of a kill if you suspect the opponent doesn't have anything.
Wouldn't Blood Moon be better in almost every situation? And it's 1 CC less.
A book about the dark side of Legacy: "Magic: The Addiction" // Conversations with Magic players: "Humans of Magic"
Eh, Burning Wish, Valakut and enough basics to play Ruination more effectivly then Blood Moon?
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
OMG that sounds ridiculously fun. Time to start brewing
I remember about 1.5 years ago maybe.. i was new to legacy... ran into nic fit and thought the same thing.. and i was playing bug delver... you can guess what happened to me.. i got annihilated.
I feel like I've played about every legacy deck at this point and no deck has come close to the fun i have with nic fit.
I know this isn't really relevant to strategy at all for this deck, but I wanted to share this.
I have so much fun playing the junk version that I wanted something special in it and decided to have our heavy hitter Sigarda altered. She looks fantastic, right!?
Definitely want to plug the alterist too: DCAlters on Facebook. Now when I GSZ for her...people know I mean business.
I suppose I should add SOMETHING about strategy and, after Matt's suggestion of trying 1 Diabolic Intent I've fallen in love with the card. Its saved me from MANY a situation and I'm sure at least 1 is a great inclusion to the deck. Went 3-1 last week (rough loss to burn) after DISMANTLING a Death+Taxes deck. I normally take out my vets in the match, and got into a tricky spot, BUT...was able to GRZ for a deathrite, then sac the deathrite to Intent, go get Toxic Deluge, and wipe the whole board. It was elementary from there. So great call on the tutor, Matt.
The Sigarda looks great. Not my personal style, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate it.
Not sure if Intent is still relevant with Sidisi existing now. The cheaper cost might be worth more than the unconditional tutor / potential attached body, but I dunno. I think it'll probably end up being a close call.
Everyone talking about Ruination should feel bad, then look at From the Ashes and fell worse for forgetting it. If you want an Armageddon for vs 12post/MUD/etc, that's your go-to. Ruination is frequently bad for Scape because so much of its manabase is duals to allow you to continue to play magic while working towards Valakut. FtA likely will still hurt, but at least you'll be able to play the creature game after it hits.
Before the inevitable "but miracles/golddigger/insert u/x control here," if that's what you want to hate on, Tsunami is still there, quietly waiting for senpai to notice her. Comes down to what you want the land destruction for -- you can't just slap "an armageddon" in your sideboard and expect it to work 100% of the time vs everything.
Have you (or anyone) done any testing with the new Sidisi? I'm interested to hear how its going. I was a bit worried about the cost, and that its a creature you cant GSZ for (but I suppose you can't tutor for a DI by itself either).
Nah, blood moon can't be wished for, also...my opponent would still be able to cast red colored or colorless spells.
It should be fairly easy to fetch and VetEx for basics alone, cast Ruination and setup for the kill using Valakut and Scapeshift. It would have more appeal to me then gor for From the Ashes.
Edit: i also played against Jeskai Stoneblade running tons of basics. He resolved Ruination while i was not expecting it and died horribly.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I agree with Bobmans...when I am playing Ruination, I want all their lands destroyed that I can without running the risk of them getting more. If I cast Ruination, I'll already have a bunch of basics in play to be a head. What I don't want to happen, is to cast From the Ashes against an opponent with 1-2 basics in play, then get the remaining 1 or 2 basics in their deck, then drop a Jace or whatever next turn.
I wouldn't say that. Nic Fit isn't super easy to play -- no legacy deck is, really -- but it is definitely underpowered relative to the metagame. You need luck from your draws and luck in your matchups. I just went back and read our GP reports. Luck was a huge factor. Sure we made errors but those even out. I forgot to de-sideboard and game-lossed myself, then won the next two games because the matchup was so favorable.
The deck invites variance and many other lists are so streamlined and powerful that people naturally gravitate toward them. I always laugh when people say Miracles is a hard deck. No, it's a deck that takes a long time to win. It's not exactly skill that allows you to counter all their spells for free and have perfect card selection and activate draw triggers. Junk Nic Fit may boil down to "break vetex, jam guys" but there's no free wins like Counterbalance or True-Name Nemesis in the deck.
I think Miracles is a hard deck to play in the sense that it's hard to play it well enough and fast enough to avoid the X-X-3 bracket. Any Legacy deck that doesn't run blue is going to attract people new to the format because they don't have to plop down the cash for any blue duals, Nic Fit just happens to be the one that take advantage of Wizards' new "make creatures completely insane" design strategy.
Well, managed to 3-1 our small legacy tournament last night. Beat Esper Stoneblade, Metalworker, and Dredge while losing to Reanimator.
I don't know how the deck would do at a larger tournament but it has been doing pretty well on the local scene. The only bad thing is that I feel that I'm slow to win games and that erodes the ramp advantage. This is causing me to goto time pretty often. Metalworker was a 2-0 that nearly went to turns, Esper Stoneblade did goto turns, and even dredge was a 40 minute affair. So I feel that I'm a bit too much on the grind plan and not enough on the win plan. As my Metalworker opponent said, it was worse than playing against Miracles (at that point he had an Ensnaring Bridge lock so I was just looping Baleful Strix/Eternal Witness with Recurring Nightmare, and topping) which made me feel a bit bad. The BUG version has been a lot of fun though.
I went 4-0 last night at our local again, besting RUG Delver, Shortcake Painter, Death and Taxes (50 minute insane game 1, one of my top 10 games of Magic ever), and Shortcake Painter.
My usual list was run. I'm finding with more Painter in my meta, I want a bit more Rec Sage. Oh well. Dear lord, Thrun is such a freaking tank.
-Matt
Forgive the Nic Fit novice question: I'm working from a GBw list with Deeds, and I assume Explorers are boarded out against certain decks with basics that can use the ramp. The list has Strangleroot Geist (I know, I know), so I won't be left completely wanting for Cabal Therapy fuel, but I'm wondering if the deck is hampered by the loss of ramp in these post board games. I'd stick DRS in there but I'm not loving the idea of multiple Deeds with that, especially when some of the matchups in which I'm guessing you'd remove Explorer, like D&T, Elves, Merfolk, and Maverick, want Deed. What's the protocol or tech?
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