Haven't played Legacy since the GP in November. I finished 24th overall (not too bad). Was X-1-1 into the last round (ranked 11th) where I was paired up against David Melendez (ranked 10th) for a literal "play-and-in" situation. I knew he was on UWx with Terminus and he absolutely destroyed me both games, despite literally playing so sloppy. I had to call the judge on him twice for not resolving all effects on his cards (clique and ponder to be precise). Bryant was watching game 2 where he told "David had you so hard the whole game. There's nothing you could have done." That actually made me feel better because I cannot emphasize how lopsided things felt. At least I didn't punt/misplay. I'd rather lose due to "he has you" rather than "well you blew it"
My list (similar to Jesse Adam's)
Dark Maverick // Chris Scagnelli / 24th Place / SCG:Cuse / 61 cards
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Courser of Kruphix ----> picked him up and he was dope
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sylvan Library
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Lands (23)
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
Sideboard
2 Containment Priest
2 Choke
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thoughtseize
Nevertheless, I'm proud of x-2-1. My matches real quick...
R1: W. Tezz Control (2-0) --- Thalia + Wasteland + QPM ruined him
R2: W. Sneak/Show (2-0) --- Managed to draw Knight right before he cast SnT both games. He was pissed
R3. W. Elves (2-0) --- I actually win G1 off Wasteland + Thalia. G2 Toxic Deluge seals it while two 8/8 knights and a Kruphix are left on table
R4. L. Miracles (0-2) --- Drew also made top 8. Completely killed me: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=82328
R5. D. Junk Blade (1-1) --- Grindy. He blew me out G1. I rally back G2. Kill him before time is called. No G3 played.
R6. W. American Delver (2-1) --- He blows me out G1. I rally G2. I put on a clinic G3.
R7. L. American Stoneforge/Miracles --- Eventual winner of the event. Destroyed me both games with this: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=82342
Every SB card was brought in across the entire event. Containment Priest was never seen during the Sneak/Show but WAS seen during Elves G2 (helping ensure the win because he couldn't NO into anything beneficial). Canonist remains the best bear. Thoughtseize was the weakest SB -- but that depends upon your bracket. If I ran through the event again (facing the same things), I'd go +1 Canonist, +2 anti-miracles stuff. Props to Jesse for recommending Choke. Choke was "slightly above average" but when it lands, as Jesse and I joked throughout the day, you stomp the opponent in the balls.
Biggest surprise was Courser. For 3 mana, he's pretty insane. When he's out + active KotR, you're just so far ahead. If the meta continues to push Delver aggro stuff, I'll gladly keep him in the list. Thrun was the biggest flop. On paper he was built to beat Miracles. I watched him get Terminus'ed or Verdict'ed (with no mana open). He DID save me from a Monetary Swiftspear and turn the tide against American Delver....but this could have been someone else. Not sure if that should be SFM #3, because I actually wanted more of her fairly often.
Totally agree and probably the cause of a lot of my losses. They have a lot of potentially problematic stuff and you only have so much removal so selection is at a premium.Originally Posted by iamajellydonut
If I had to play Maverick right now I would play Punishing Maverick. I know its "worse" than Junk but I like playing it more and have done better with it overall.
Warden playing only 1 Library? The sky is falling
Zealous Persecution annihilates D&T. For game 2, just side out Thalia and bring in extra removal. Don't worry about dropping your creature count. They can't compete with what you can put on the board. The biggest threat in their deck is Serra Avenger because of flying, but you can generally handle it if you ration your removal properly.
Kill Vial whenever you see it. Equipment is manageable by keeping the board clear, but Vial will gut you if you're not careful.
Agreed in full. I bring in 4 sweepers for DnT and Elves on top of STP/Decay/PTE. Yes, they out-swarm you. But you also wipe the table and laugh as they get X-for-1'ed.
This is... not exactly the truth. And it goes back to a lot of the match-up being decided by difficult target selection. Vial isn't inherently dangerous. Neither is Umezawa's Jitte. But if they have a Vial set at two and an Umezawa's Jitte on the board and a Thalia in hand, it becomes pretty clear pretty quick which of the two supports is the most relevant. You're entire goal is to go one-for-one and endure until such a point when you can card selection all over their face. Killing the Vial, especially when your methods of getting rid of it, doesn't really help to that end even in the slightest. Are there times when Vial is the Big Bad? Sure. But it's not always. Not by far.
Two ways to beat DnT
When I was pure GW simply have 6 basics and targeting their ports with my wastelands killed them as they targeted my Iths, Tower of the Magistrates and Karakas with their own wastelands. Soon it was their 2-3 lands vs my 2-3 lands + mana dorks. Except while they dropped 2/1's I dropped Knights, Oozes, and Sigarda. 4 Pridemages in the 75 pluse Light and Shadow and they slowly ran out of non-creature permanents and it becomes a roflstomp.
When you add black you lose the basics but gain aoe/removal. Strategy remains the same. Kill all equipment and ports, the rest of their deck are just smaller versions of yours. You'll win each time.
I've gone to 4 SCG Opens and faced DnT 8 times losing only once. My record gets better if I include weekly events.
For the most part, what really matters the most is killing ports with wastelands, and leveraging their Revokers. If they turn off moms--then be overly aggressive with them since they can't do protection tricks and their guys are small. If they don't turn off moms, Knight => Stage/Depths with mom protection instantly kills them.
If you're abzan, then you can snipe their moms/revokers with persecutions and do either of those strats at will.
If you're Selesnya, then you have a high basics count and you just stall until you get to 3-5 basics in play and just out spell them.
I can flip all of those around and say the same thing about their deck. We play Thalia too, and she blocks Crusader just fine. You're not going to swing into a Thalia without Mom protecting you anyway. The other interactions you cite require Aether Vial to be very powerful, and it's absolutely essential that you keep Vial offline.
For a mono color deck, Death and Taxes actually has a significant issue with land screw. Despite all the basic lands they are heavily reliant on non-basics for utility that we can easily disrupt. In game 1, be aggressive with Wasteland on Ports and Karakas. Landing a Knight is usually going to do the trick. I'm also a big fan of Maze of Ith in the D&T match up. They have ways of neutralizing it, but it either ties up their mana every turn or just bricks their attacker, and Mom can't do anything to prevent it.
I've also had reasonable success with Life from the Loam, but be careful of Rest in Peace. They'll sometimes bring that in to shut off Deathrites and Knight activations.
I've only really lost to D&T is when they have an equipped Mirran Crusader. There are also scenarios where they get free wins with Vial, Wasteland, Port. Game 2/3 I take out 4x Thalia and 1x Gaddock Teeg and put in 1x Sword of Light and Shadow, 2x Toxic Deluge, 1x Bitterblossom and 1x Scavenging Ooze. Light and Shadow works great with re-occuring Qasali Pridemage gunning down their vials and equipment. It also helps push Knight and our other creatures through. Toxic Deluge is my board sweeper over zealous . I just like it because you usually have bigger creatures and problematic creatures like Mirran Crusader/Serra Avenger (and other creatures in other decks like Nimble Mongoose) have more than 1 toughness. Bitterblossom is really in my board for Miracles. However, I need something to replace Thalia/Teeg and it actually works surprisingly well. Helps keep their flyers at bay, holds equipment well and can trade with a lot of their creatures. Scavenging Ooze again is there to replace a Thalia/Teeg and can do well if they leave the graveyards alone.
I also am a part of the Sigarda camp. She is great in this matchup. I also run Maze of Ith which helps out with Mirran Crusader, Serra Avenger, etc. Keep swords for Unactive Mother of Runes, Containment Priest (post board) and Mirran Crusader. Keep Wasteland for their Ports.
I've never actually gotten a Sigarda into play when it mattered. I should really go back and give her another shot. I was unsatisfied with Batterskull as a late game threat, but Sigarda might do the trick.
Nothing feels better than when the opponent realizes you can equip the batterskull to the Sigarda.
Oh, I'm sure that's a glorious moment. Once I can track down a foil Sigarda I'll give her another shot. I haven't bothered to keep her in a list in quite a while.
Given what I keep losing to in events (UWx control-ish things), what am I doing wrong? I got ROFLstompped by the #1 and #3 finishers at SCG:Cuse and having the matchups roll around in my mind for a few days on replay, I can't decipher why I'm losing so badly. Part of me says to play revoker/needle/grip/armageddon > choke. Not sure if that's the correct mentality. Choke was a strong pick in the SB (and will be moving forward).
Both these UWx decks needed top to setup the deck. However, melendez shifts to Jace and SFM stuff after sucking you in with terminus/verdict/stp/counters. The miracles matchup was 50-50 my deck drawing fetches for days + him X-for-1'ing me. I almost want to say the Miracles player beat me down with less reliance on top than Melendez's deck. Needle sucks if you can't land it. Revoker falls victim to removal but could possibly bide time. Thrun get terminus'ed against both.
Null Rod? Stops top plus his Stoneforge Shenanigans (of course if you are on the SFM plan it gets awkward too though). Alternatively is strong against MUD/Storm as well which I assume Storm at least is a 50/50 MU.
In case you were curious to try, crying like a little girl when he flips over terminus does not make them change their mind no matter how many variations of crying you try. I've tested this plenty and its still my plan A being that I don't know what else Maverick can do in this matchup.
Playing Maverick.
Cynicism aside, It's not an impossible match-up, but they have card advantage, card selection, and multiple locks on their side while we have... not that. You are correct that stopping Sensei's Divining Top is one of the key plays, but there are, unfortunately, few ways to effectively do so without gimping yourself. However, it's worth noting that while their card selection and ability to generate card advantage will be significantly hampered by the removal of Top, they will still be able to set up Termini and Entreats thanks to Brainstorms, Jaces, and sacrificial Jaces. So just getting rid of Top is still not necessarily enough.
There are ways to stomp Miracles as Maverick, but they require different choices in construction. As it stands, you need to be able to go one-for-one while applying pressure, and, regardless of whether Top is in play or not, Maverick can have a bitch of a time doing that.
Steps towards victory:
- You need to land your equipment so that you can turn crappy dorks like Mom into a force of matronly justice.
- In fact, any static non-creature presence is a step in the right direction. Sylvan Library is currently the only thing you have in this category, but anything you can easily add that can’t be hit by a Swords or Terminus is great.
- Your Qasali Pridemages will be your main men. They’re not bombs in the sense that Thrun and Teeg are, but they’re definitely the next best thing given that they’re basically your only tools to combat Counterbalance. Pridemage even has the added benefit of being able to threaten Top if you for some reason land one early.
- Oh, and, this may go without saying, but if you Green Sun’s for Qasali Pridemage in order to get rid of Counterbalance, don’t blow your load and scream “FUCK YOU COUNTERBALANCE”. You have a creature in play. You don’t need to get rid of Counterbalance until you need to stick another creature in play. Ride out the Pridemage until they’re forced to forced to Swords it or Terminus it. Then you pop it in response for (!)profit. Again, this may seem obvious, but I cannot tell you how many fucking times I have groaned over someone’s shoulder while they got overeager and popped Pridemage before they actually needed to.
- Some more dumb advice. Drop down guys alongside Teeg. You can safely give him one to two buddies. Still don’t overextend because removal of the Teeg is often likely.
- Even more dumb advice. Don’t swing with Teeg unless they’re tapped out or have nothing in hand.
- Why is your Thrun constantly being removed with Terminus? Use more Karakas.
Sample size is low but my games from Sunday were (mentally recalling events here):
Miracles G1. I Green Sun on 0 into Arbor. Meets STP. Manage to drop another land, play Thalia. Thalia swings for a while. I drop Gaddock. Council's + tax on Teeg. I GSZ on 3 + tax. Force of will + tax. Terminus somewhere in here...I lose Thalia + SFM but have equipment on the table. Entreat for 3 (I make him play it out to kill me so I can see more tech with his deck). I draw fetches while angels munch on me.
Miracles G2. Complete blowout. Double terminus (1st was blind, which he said was lucky). Somewhere during this game I have Thalia and accidentally play Choke on 3 (can't do, we get the head judge, warning issued to both me and opponent to be careful). Next turn he ponders for 1. Same head judge issues warning on opponent (all of us laughing as the ponder-but-forgetting-thalia-cost situation just happened). The choke doesn't come out in time (because it was a turn or two behind actually holding him off of things). The last-push effort is me ripping a GSZ late, casting it for x=4 on a blank board. Tapped out into his terminus.
UWr SFM control -- both games he has constant removal. Quick turn 4 jaces end me both games as I can't deal with it in time.
One of the games I cast teeg only to see bolt --> snapcaster --> bolt kill him + a comrade. The second game I keep a greedy hand for the first and only time all day. I lose Dryad to a turn 3 terminus, mana-screwing me. Bryant was watching this whole time and said the opponent had me the whole game hard. Like "he ended the game with verdict + 3 counters in hand" + jace on the table bad. Terminus literally ruins me. And when it's an early terminus it's just over :/
Null Rod could be an answer. I would have to leverage my own equipment against it though. I need a bloodbraid elf type "sudden CA with haste" thing. Perhaps Slaughter Games to take away game-ending spells/jace/terminus?
This is why we were so excited for Collected Company.
Anyway, what you described is pretty much the cut and paste "Miracles fucked me" story. Without having physically seen the games, I'm not sure what more could have been done, but I think the above still stands as sort of the rules you have to follow with your current build.
It's the price you pay for running a deck that doesn't have lock pieces or disruption, operates at sorcery speed, and is entirely reliant on creatures.
Null Rod helps. Honestly, I am slowly coming more and more around to the idea of a tutorboard. As much as I dislike the card disadvantage vs Miracles, sometimes it's more important to get the *right* hate early on. Null Rod, Bitterblossom, Spirit of the Labyrinth (or Chains if you have it) all help. I wish there were a Dosan-like card that would keep him from popping miracles on my turn, since slowing him down to sorcery speed evens the playing field dramatically.
Surgical Extraction is also not exactly dead. Miracles is a lot more removal light than it would appear. If you can land Surgical on Plowshares and stick a Teeg, there are very few ways he can win. I suspect something like Stain the Mind has the same effect (but of course, costs a bunch).
Would cards like Nevermore, Meddling Mage, etc... also be good options?
I'd rather have Pithing Needle than Nevermore, and Meddling Mage pushes you towards Bant (not a problem, but also not the prevailing archetype of this thread) when you could just play another Teeg and shut off many more cards at once.
It practically never sees play anymore, but what about Maelstrom Pulse? Cleans up a sky full of angels, hits Counterbalance or Jace... It's expensive, but it's not like the games are finishing before the fourth land drop for Thalia tax.
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