MUD or Post Ramp?Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
UG Ramp running SnT package.
Avoiding the macthup. If it happens that you play aaginst 12 post like decks ask for a draw or accept that our matchup is
so bad that the only way winning is that your oppnent never gets enough mana an threats.
counter the first ramp spell they play.
flash snap in t2
Hope they stumble for 10 rounds...
Flashing snap on t2 is just stupid.
12 Post is the worst matchup, but it is not unwinnable. It's beatable when you prevent them from getting Eye of Ugin on the battlefield, which will then get Emrakul. SoCountertop, counters etc. need to counter Primeval Titan and Crop Rotation and every card filter like SDT
If you can prevent that from happening, you will win. If they naturally draw either Emrakul or Eye of Ugin, well then the game is over. But both are 1ofs.
They can have all the mana in the world, but as long as they don't have access to Emrakul, the game is winnable.
I've won a fair amount of matches against 12 post, it is a horrible MU, but not unwinnable. It does not play in the same league as Storm vs a Draft deck etc.
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Strongly disagree with this. The game plan of "prevent them from getting Eye of Ugin" is actually really hard because their entire deck is engineered to do that one thing (Cavern -> Primetime, etc). You can /try/ to stop them, but the idea is that they will win on that axis because their plan is just more equipped to happen than yours. Plus, there are a lot of situations where things like a t1 Exploration Map resolve, which means you're not going to be sustain the "prevent Eye" game plan. When that happens - you race.
Flashing in Snap on t2 isn't great, but the matchup actually is just shit. Sure, semantics - its not unwinnable. But that sentiment should not be processed optimistically at all. And I'd rather flash in Snap on turn 2 and stick to a more consistent, realistic plan of beating them in than waste a turn or two trying to find counterspells we might not see or get value out of Snapcaster that won't matter.
Apparently this guy gets to counter every single Crop Rotation/Expedition Map, Stifle every single Titan trigger, never allow Titan to get into play, even when Cavern named Giants.
Put pressure onto 12 Post players is the best approach to go at it. Trying to slow down 12 Post is the real stupid. Horrible is what? 20%? Say unwinnable is 5%, then yes, this is an unwinnable MU. One X factor is the understanding of the MU from the 12 Post player, is he aware of know how abusive he can be in this MU?
Hello,
the thing with 12 post is that the mono green list is actually the best matchup for us. If they are playing a list with blue and Academy ruins this matchup becomes unwinable because even if you can counter their threats they just put them back on the libary and bring them into play with ugin which is pretty bad for us since 1 thundering Titan means a endless recursion of land destruction and a pretty fast clock.
Also the blue lists are more consistent and can find eye of ugin pretty fast. The most realistic point in this matchup is beat them to death.
I think a fast entreat maybe only for 1 in the third turn can win this but thats the only reliable way to win without you opponent doing just nothing.
This at least is what I expierienced.
So long as you counter literally every single card your opponent casts, and your opponent doesn't find their Cave, Eye, or an Eldrazi whilst you're trying to do that, it's an easy game. I mean; it's just 30 hardcore must-counters. No big deal.
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Side in Vendilion Clique, and all the creature you have in the 15.
You have a Blood Moon into the sideboard i see...well, put it in, this is a great card in this matchup.
the later year, many player of my meta starting to play MUD and Post Ramp.
The solutions I have play are:
- blood moon (lands)
- humility (creatures)
- pithing needle (candelabra and karn - today ugin)
- wear tear (pithing needle and others utiliity)
What do you guys think to replace win con & creatures of Miracles by :
+ 4 Myth realized
+ 3 Monastery Mentor
- 2 Jace
- 2 Entreat the Angels
- 3 Snapcaster
I just did a small tournament this afternoon, ending 1 1 1 with a normal ponder list but i got simply crushed by that
Miracle Mentor Myth >>> The 3M Miracles!
Do you mean maindeck? If so it seems like those are way easier to answer (especially pre-board) than the existing win-cons. I like Mentor out of the board in matchups where they're likely to take out all of their spot removal, since you can kind of go off with two Tops.
or
?
Every match is easy when they don't resolve any spells. They WILL resolve something, and when 80% of their spells are spend on gettin the last 10% that matters, that's a pretty tall order to overcome.
Obviously flashing in snap on 2 isn't the best approach, but if you actually try to find them going long, you ARE going to lose. No matter how you put it. It's close to a 90-10% matchup.
PhyrexianLibrarian
Yes i mean main deck
well, suddenly abrupt decay is not only an answer to our Cb but all our wincons...
Well, 11 abrupt decay Targets vs. 4 actual abrupt decays .. Sounds like overloading to me.
Sure, that's true.
*Suddenly all removal spells is good vs us.
Thats absolutely true.
Mentor and Myth maybe wont be very good in already favourable matchups, but they might improve unfavorable matchups like shardless or Titan Post by overloading abrupt decay, being threats for planeswalkers like lili and
Jace (mentor and myth are nearly lily sacc. proof) while also providing stable Blockers for goyf etc. . In the Titan Post matchup they both provide relatively fast clocks.
Im not saying that they are better win cons than jace or entreat im just able to imagine some scenarios where myth and mentor could be quite helpful.
Sorry for my bad english, i hope you still get the point.
I just can say a agree with what you just said :
- Faster clock than jace or entreat if they dont deal with
- 4 Abrupt decay vs 15 spell they must absolutely to deal with
- Myth Realized just Deal with Liliana easy and is not affected by your Terminus
Well need to be more play tested to see but it could be considered.
I can't believe that this is actually being discussed. Both Myth Realized and Mentor are strictly inferior to JTMS and Entreat maindeck. I mean, those choices might be fine in the board to bring in when an opponent cuts their removal, but in maindeck, it makes all of their removal spells good against us. The reason that JTMS and entreat are the primary wincons in stock miracles decks is that they are not hit by some random removal spells. Making things like abrupt decay and STP hit our wincons sounds like a great way to lose.
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