[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Bobmans]

been playing some games with stormbreath in that list on mtgo so far. this morning. hes felt pretty great so far.. although out of 4 games so far I keep getting them in my opening hand.. which is never what i want. One game I had 1 in hand.. and first draw was another... but what can ya do.


I've had to board them out alot but thats only because of the matchups ive been getting.

Did you run 2 or 3? In what MU's did they show up?

Currently i think 2 is the correct number. You really want to see him, but you don't want them to clog up. So for that reason i am considering to go 4 SDT and 3 GSZ so i have more "chance" to have influence on what to draw and what not. Maybe going to 3 GSZ is the wrong call. But i am not sure what to cut. And somehow Liliana hasn't been performing that well. Either she shows up to late or gets removed or doesnt make any impact on the board whereas Vraska has been a freaky bitch when she showed up. I am just not comfortable of removing Liliana maindeck.

[Arianrhod]

2 will be fine. I've run a pair of a nongreen very-good-card multiple times...usually in white variants and usually either Baneslayer or Thune. At 2 Stormbreaths with 3 Tops and sufficient shuffles, you are almost guaranteed to see 1 per medium-short game and to see both over a medium-long game, which is basically what you want. If you run any more, or up the number of Tops, you're going to start clogging on those cards, respectively.

Thragtusk is still correct to run if you're not running gratuitous amounts of rhino and/or Obstinate Baloth.

[Myelectronicdays]

Did you run 2 or 3? In what MU's did they show up?

Currently i think 2 is the correct number. You really want to see him, but you don't want them to clog up. So for that reason i am considering to go 4 SDT and 3 GSZ so i have more "chance" to have influence on what to draw and what not. Maybe going to 3 GSZ is the wrong call. But i am not sure what to cut. And somehow Liliana hasn't been performing that well. Either she shows up to late or gets removed or doesnt make any impact on the board whereas Vraska has been a freaky bitch when she showed up. I am just not comfortable of removing Liliana maindeck.

i agree on the number. going to play some more games at lunch today.. but 3 was too much.. going to go down to 2. I played UR delver twice, which he got boarded out. Played against the rock once (which is rare for me on mtgo to see), in which he was awesome.

Interesting to see that take on liliana.. she eats a bolt, or decay or a force every game.. but i guess it also shows how threatening she can be also. I'd feel wierd taking any out..

[Ralf]

Seriously Stormbreath dragon in a Jund list ?

Pro-white is a thing, but still this card does not provide any card advantage nor any ETB effect.

If you are looking for a huge strike, I would look into Demigod of Revenge, first.

This kind of deck might be able to put a very very "weird" pressure on your opponent.

"I can feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord
And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, Oh Lord
Can you feel it coming in the air tonight, oh Lord, oh Lord"

Revenge Fit by Ralf

1 Mountain
2 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Verdant catacombs
2 Bloodstained mire
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
2 Badland
3 Taiga

3 Veteran explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
4 Demigod or Revenge

3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Lightning bolt

3 Pernicious deed

3 Sensei's divining top

2 Kolaghan's command
4 Cabal therapy
3 Green Sun Zenith


SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Blood moon
SB: 1 Golgari charm
SB: 1 Toxic deluge
SB: 3 Slaughter games
SB: 2 Krosan grip

[Arianrhod]

I was going to note that getting away with Demigod in a world in which Deathrite Shaman is not banned is excessively greedy, but you MIGHT be able to get away with it. If Miracles (and Omni) are big right now, Deathrite is probably in remission overall, and you do have 9 spot removal + deeds and lilianas that can get rid of one. Might actually work, dunno.

Stormbreath is not as bad as you think it is, though. It's kind of a red Thrun. It's immune to StP, it's immune to Decay, it's bigger than Lightning Bolt. It's very effective at dealing with Jaces, even through any stray angel tokens, and it's very real for us to be able to monstrous it. Granted, it doesn't create any card advantage -- but it's very effective at actually killing people.

[Bobmans]

Seriously Stormbreath dragon in a Jund list ?
..
This kind of deck might be able to put a very very "weird" pressure on your opponent.
..
4 Lightning bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command

Playing 4 demands sacrificing flexibility/adaptability against varies MU's aswell. Also Lightning Bolt? That's like running Tarmogoyf in NicFit.
Kolaghan's Command looks interesting, any experience with the card?

i agree on the number. going to play some more games at lunch today.. but 3 was too much.. going to go down to 2. I played UR delver twice, which he got boarded out. Played against the rock once (which is rare for me on mtgo to see), in which he was awesome.

Interesting to see that take on liliana.. she eats a bolt, or decay or a force every game.. but i guess it also shows how threatening she can be also. I'd feel wierd taking any out..

I would def try one against UR Delver. 4/4, blocks delver and eats bolt (not at the same time tho).
To me it is not so much a problem that Liliana gets removed, it is more that if she lives she doesnt add to much value.

[Arianrhod]

Playing 4 demands sacrificing flexibility/adaptability against varies MU's aswell. Also Lightning Bolt? That's like running Tarmogoyf in NicFit.
Kolaghan's Command looks interesting, any experience with the card?

Strongly disagree with the Bolt - Goyf comparison. Lightning Bolt is more analogous to Swords or Path if anything, and both of those cards are very playable. Bolt is a very efficient removal spell that hits exactly when you need it to, but is flexible and can be used as reach if needed as well. This is even more true in a theoretical Demigod shell which would be terrified of Deathrite Shaman. Having an immediate, turn 1 answer to Deathrite coming down is very valuable.

[Ralf]

Strongly disagree with the Bolt - Goyf comparison. Lightning Bolt is more analogous to Swords or Path if anything, and both of those cards are very playable. Bolt is a very efficient removal spell that hits exactly when you need it to, but is flexible and can be used as reach if needed as well. This is even more true in a theoretical Demigod shell which would be terrified of Deathrite Shaman. Having an immediate, turn 1 answer to Deathrite coming down is very valuable.

Arian has perfectly summed it up.

I might have been a bit overwhelmed by "joy" and I guess you could be perfectly fine with only 3 Demigods.
Haste, hits for 5 (killing a Jace in one blow is no Joke at all) and, at least, is not a dead card to Liliana's +1 effect nor to opponent's discard (HTT namely).

Not to mention, its effect triggers on "cast" so f.ck you counterspell & FOW.

Kolaghan's command seems to have been designed for Jund Fit:
3 CMC and every choice can "fit" in our deck, what should we ask for more ?

The sideboard options are also great.
With bolt instead of P.fire, you can now play "blood moon" which answers a lot of our bad matchups.

PS: Ah and I would love seeing an opponent siding gravehate against me to deal with the demigods

[Bobmans]

Arian has perfectly summed it up.

I might have been a bit overwhelmed by "joy" and I guess you could be perfectly fine with only 3 Demigods.
Haste, hits for 5 (killing a Jace in one blow is no Joke at all) and, at least, is not a dead card to Liliana's +1 effect.

Not to mention, its effect triggers on "cast" so f.ck you counterspell & FOW.

Kolaghan's command seems to have been designed for Jund Fit:
3 CMC and every choice can "fit" in our deck, what should we ask for more ?

The sideboard options are also great.
With bolt instead of P.fire, you can now play "blood moon" which answers a lot of our bad matchups.

Still a t2 punishing fire on DRS would do the trick to. I feel that Punishing Fires in NicFit fits better then lighting bolt. While pfire can still be "weaker" vs DRS it is a nightmare vs most creature decks and NicFit ramps into a lot of mana giving pfire more reach when going in for the long game. Offcourser this might not be true when focussing on Demigod making bolt the better choice.

Dont we all get overwhelmed with joy at some point talking about crazy tech in NicFit ;-p

Blood Moon is a strong argument there. Depths/Post based deck can be a nightmare for us.

About Command, good point there. Will try it at some point. Have to much to test currently lol. And i just ordered cards, lol again.

[sdematt]

Maybe Stormbreath is fine, but I still think it's worth trying. I mean, testing will flesh out if it is good enough or not.

[pettdan]

You usually want Blood Moon vs decks that don't care about Punishing Fires, so it's more or less available regardless of build. And in the matchups where you want both, P.Fires isn't that much worse than a Bolt.
On that topic I tried to maindeck Burning Wish in a Punishing Fit list with Ruination in the sideboard and got a lucky 2-0 against a white-green Cloudpost.

[Tom4ik]

So I was reading over the past few pages of the thread. I do not see much BUG list discussion. I am actually really surprised, considering most Nicfit lists run multiple pieces that vary wildly in value depending on matchup, Bstorm (and I am on 2 ponder) better at setting that up than even top. You also get access to Jace, Snap, and Dig. All of which are amazing and probably better than a lot of the GSZ targets you are grabbing. Not to say that it is the only way to go for sure but I am wondering why the lack of interest.

[sdematt]

Uncertain why that is. I feel like someone JUST posted a list with Cunning Wish and such.

-Matt

[Ralf]

So I was reading over the past few pages of the thread. I do not see much BUG list discussion. I am actually really surprised, considering most Nicfit lists run multiple pieces that vary wildly in value depending on matchup, Bstorm (and I am on 2 ponder) better at setting that up than even top. You also get access to Jace, Snap, and Dig. All of which are amazing and probably better than a lot of the GSZ targets you are grabbing. Not to say that it is the only way to go for sure but I am wondering why the lack of interest.

Well, I worked hard on my BUG Wish Fit list but as there is no fancy monster in (and I guess like in yours) it didn't get a lot of discussion.

This should not prevent us from playing it, anyway.

I also did mention that, IMHO, it is certainly at least and maybe even more competitive right now than any other Nic Fit variant.
As much as my list seems to be cute, it has been pretty well play-tested.

I have elected a "Wish" version for several reasons:
- I have played Scape during a long time (thanks to Arian) and have had a lot of success with Burning wish
- I wanted to play underrated cards such as "Empty the Pits" which could be considered as a black "entreat the angels" and the old "Hatred". All these cards cannot be played in multiple in the MD; so they had to be grabbed with Cunning Wish.

If you dig up a bit in the thread you should be able to find some tournament reports.
If you want to share your thoughts about your list or mine, go ahead.

I'll have a look at yours and shall make some comments.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post866754

Cheers,

[Bobmans]

As a sidenote: the activity here is awesome.

[pettdan]

It sure is Bobmans! :)

@Ralf: Your list didn't go unnoticed, I immediately ordered a Hatred due to your elegant list but haven't gotten around to play it yet. Having two possible EOT I win wish targets seems awesome.

[Arianrhod]

@Ralf: why no Dig Through Time in that list? I guess you just want to save all of your graveyard for Empty the Pits? Is that enough reason to not run a Dig?

[Myelectronicdays]

I would def try one against UR Delver. 4/4, blocks delver and eats bolt (not at the same time tho).
To me it is not so much a problem that Liliana gets removed, it is more that if she lives she doesnt add to much value.

Yeah wasnt sure if it was just to slow in the deck.. since that deck packs a punch fast.

So i actually played that demigod list at lunch... went 3-0 in tourney practice.. first match barely counted since it was some random awful brew. Then played vs esperblade and maverick.

I never got to recur one one.. since they got plowed! haha, i was like wow figures. But the big haste flyer was good in all matches again. I was still enjoying the 3 vet / 3 drs more though than the 4 - 1 split. DRS was mvp on the esper matchup by a mile..

[Bobmans]

Yeah wasnt sure if it was just to slow in the deck.. since that deck packs a punch fast.

So i actually played that demigod list at lunch... went 3-0 in tourney practice.. first match barely counted since it was some random awful brew. Then played vs esperblade and maverick.

I never got to recur one one.. since they got plowed! haha, i was like wow figures. But the big haste flyer was good in all matches again. I was still enjoying the 3 vet / 3 drs more though than the 4 - 1 split. DRS was mvp on the esper matchup by a mile..

Yeah true, both UR Delver and Burn have a very high velocity. During Treasure Cruise i ran 3/4 Split in Vet/Drs. From start to midgame i was spending in everything to get lifegain on the floor. DRS was the first to catch burn. At least that was one burnspell less on the head. Thragtusk or Huntmaster usually showed up to create a gap. After that it was mostly a win on my side. Courser helped to. Have won more games then lost vs both. Anyway i switched back to 4/1 split because i was spending to much time on durdling with DRS instead of ramping into bombs. Still i think that a 3/3 split is bit akward. I'd rather go for 4/1, 4/2 or 3/4 to maximize on either veteran explorer or drs. Guess thats just preference.

Demigod doing good work huh, the question is, is his exotic recurring ability going to make a difference instead of going for Stormbreath's pro white..

[Myelectronicdays]

well nic fit did good work. I couldn't tell how much of a real impact he had vs stormbreath.. in those games stormbreath would have been better. but I'll play more with it for sure. was a fun list.

that mana cost is the real deal also.. one miser forest on the board hoses casting him.