Hi, long time lurker here.
I was wondering if you guys think Reanimators two top 8 spots was just luck or if the deck is strong. The last time a deck put up similar numbers, Red Death, it quickly became accepted as a contendor in the format.
Yes Leyline hurts but its deck is one that doesn't see much play, and that probably isn't even played in most areas.
Here is the blue list played by METHOD
'Shok Style Reanimator
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Buried Alive
4 Animate Dead
4 Reanimate
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
4 Spirit of the Night
2 Duress
1 Sickening Dreams
1 Show and Tell
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
/sb
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Phyrexian Negator
3 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Echoing Truth.
I don't know what the other build was running though. I would guess stuff like Deed and/or possibly creature tutors to act like Entomb, or do you have a better idea.
But I would really like to hear from the B/G deck's creator and player himself.
Also, does Simic Sky Swallower have the same interaction with Animate Dead as Pro Black creatures do?
Last edited by Clark Kant; 09-04-2006 at 11:23 PM.
I'm pretty sure that SSS is different from pro:black. Yes, you can still Animate him, but the Animate actually gets to attach itself to SSS, and therefore he can be killed by Disenchant.
Do you think only running a limited number of creatures works better then running a variety that could be used in all sorts of situations, like when facing down a horde of goblins swinging with a butcher orgg would be nice.In my opinion i would go for a wider variety of creatures then 4 akroma and 4 spirit of the night, but i guess whatever works ehh?
Under this thread, Method started a thread.
-4 Animate DEath
+4 Exhume
Animate Death would be superior stupid in this deck :)
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
Hey there! Im Rodrigo Gonzalez from San Diego, and i was the other person in the top 8 with B/G reanimator.
Well here is the decklist that i used and have been using for several months, Ill make some comments about some of the card choices i expect people will ask about afterwards.
4 Putrid Imp
4 Buried Alive
3 Animate Dead
4 Reanimate
2 Recurring Nightmare
4 Exhume
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Buried Alive
4 Dark Ritual
2 Sickening Dreams
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Windswept heath
3 OverGrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
5 Swamp
1 Ascendant Evincar
1 Thunder Dragon
1 Braids Cabal minion
1 Phanthom Nishoba
1 Symic Sky Swallower
1 Sundering Titan
1 Symbiotic Wurm
1 Akroma Angel of wrath
1 Angel of Despair
1 Bringer of the Blue Dawn
/sb
4 Defense Grid
3 Choke
4 Naturalize
2 Sickening Dreams
2 Pernicious Deed
Ok ill separate the cards into the basic elements of the archtype which are discard ( getting creatures into the grave) and reanimation, also utilities such as disruption and such.
Discard:
Imp : Cheap effective discard that works as a lackey blocker and beats down when necesary.
Cabal Therapy: Great when making opponent discard and really good for you as an outlet as well. makes the imps usefull after the creatures are already in the yard.
Sickening Dreams: kills weanie hordes as well as undisruptable discard, since the discard is in adition to the casting cost. Works well as last moment burn spell.
Buried alive: Best tutor after entomb for these decks ( PLEASE UNBAN IT WIZARDS!!!)
Reanimation:
Reanimate: duh. cheap and effective, also good at taking opposing critters.
Exhume: reanimation with a minor drawback.
Animate dead: It only got better after the rescent Pro black trick. Awesome!
Recurring nightmare: Nothing better than beaing able to switch out your fattie for a better one later in the game.
Creatures:
Akroma : DUH...i hear shes good.
Sundering Titan: One sided armagendon against any deck with duels. and hes huuuuuge!
Symic Sky Swallower: Flying Mongoose on crack. Wins games almost as fast ... and sometimes faster than Akroma.
Blazing Archon: great against Madness, Goblins and the mirror. and also any random aggro.
Phanthom Nishoba: YAY! Spirit link and near undestructability! goblins and burn aggro hate this card.
Thunder Dragon: Three damage to all non flyers and it stays in play. If it wasnt for Echo crater hellion would be here.
Angel of Despair: Kills any other anoying thing thats too expensive to deed, or just as a tempo boost.
Symbiotic Wurm: B I G fatty ! Allows beats post flash back therapy, and it works well with Braids.
Braids: Tempo advantage if out early and lock later on with the wurm. Great against Solidarity and random combo like belcher and iggy pop.
Bringer of the Blue Dawn : Perhaps the most controversial card in the deck, But if you stop to think about it, if your drawing 3 cards a turn you shouldnt be losing. ( just for concideration. I dont think ive lost a match where they left the bringer alive because they thought it wasnt powefull ...HA! )
The side board and two deeds main are the reason i splashed green in this deck. Humilty kills you if you dont have a deed or a naturalize.
Choke destroys grow.
Defense Grid annoys solidarity and landstill like hell.
And the extra Sickening Dreams and Deeds come in against Goblins and Grow respectively.
Match ups:
The deck itself has a good match against most of the field. But it shines its best in random metagames.
as ie mentioned before, i have been playing this for several months. close to 8 months or so with this build. so extensive testing against several decks has been done.
Goblins:
70-30 if mono red and green red, 60- 40 if they have white for swords.
Grow:
with white..50-50 ( it really depends on who gets the best hand, swords play a huge part since they can put me in a clock, and as long as i dont nuke their lands with a titan they have a good even chance)
With just red ...70-30 ( no swords mean i win by both beats and if i get a Blazing Archon to stall enough to nuke the board with both titan and others).
Solidarity:
45-55 If i can get any disruption early enough and a couple therapies ( one flashed back) with a fatty for a clock, its all good. still not an easy match. After sideboard it gets considerably better. Choke helps, Grid stalls enough. But sometimes they pull it out of their ass.
Homebrew/ Pikula:
your hardest match would have to be Homebrew. Reanimator is a combo deck, so having every answer to it hurts alot ( swords... duress... hymm...edict...and wretch main hurt quite a bit but its still in range of being won. more like a 35-65.)
If there are any questions please ask.
If you want to check the consistency of the deck, check for the last 6 months in the top 8 in san diego, I believe we stoped posting results on the source a while back. but youll see that whenever i played reanimator ( this build ) i top 8'd, every sinlge time, and the tournaments old for about 30 - 40 people. not tiny 8-15 ish.
this deck arhctype is awesome to play and competitive as hell. but the hate still comes from everyone thats a skeptic about the consistency of its wins.
Id like to milk that oreo... split it in half...and lick all that sweet sweet candy off. mmmmm... oreos....
Hi,
Can you explain how Animate Dead works with pro-black creatures like Akroma, Angel of Wrath and Spirit of the Night?
I've just checked the virtual judge on StarCityGames and it clearly states that Spirit of the Night had pro-black to prevent him from being animated with Animate Dead.
So is the enchantment only for your opponent's creatures?
Thanks.
- ERDjinn
How it works is like this:
You cast animate dead.
Animate dead targets Akroma or any pro black creature in the yard. ( they dont have pro black in the yard)
It comes back into play, and then the animate dead turns into an Aura ( creature enchantment)
Since the pro black creature is in play already, the aniimate dead cant target it.
the animate dead goes to the graveyard ( and since its not on the Akroma, you dont have to sacrifice it)
And TADAAAA!! you have a succesfully cast pro black fattie!
EXTRA PROPS IF YOU TAKE A MYSTIC ENFORCER FROM AN OPPOSING GROW DECK!
Id like to milk that oreo... split it in half...and lick all that sweet sweet candy off. mmmmm... oreos....
Perhaps I'm missing something, but under this set of circumstances SSS gets put into play (no abilities in graveyard) enchantment becomes an Aura, can't target SSS, and is put in GY by SBE, leaving the big-ass flying untargetable trampler in play. Exhume is still the right call in a blue based deck as it can be Tutored for, but Animate is a fine choice.
TL,DR: if you think Saito is ok, check your moral compass. It may be broken. - Spikey Mikey, amen brother
WE know what the price of progress is (often 8-10 life). - Cait Sith
A casual stasis deck? You must not really like your friends. Do you play it before or after you pull the wings off of flys and microwave the neighbor's cat? - EwokSlayer
The interaction isn't quite like that.
The interaction is as follows, well eventually in that thread.
SSS is different because there is nothing stopping the aura from being attached only a targeting restriction making putting an aura on it near to impossible.
This is what I read on StarCityGames. It should be a level 5 judge who writes them.
Q: Can I Animate Dead a creature with protection from black and keep it in play?
A: No; you can target a creature with protection from black if it's in the graveyard - you couldn't if it was in play - and as such, it will come into play.
However, the enchantment will be put in the graveyard because once the creatures comes into play, the protection from black will cause an illegal target, and the creature will be put in the graveyard once the Animate Dead goes away.
Q: Shouldn't the creature live because the spell has already been succesfully cast? So, wouldn't the game never have the chance to check for protection from black? This is probably wrong - but the reason I see it working like this is when a Treachery or other enchantment like that is Replenished or brought back, it doesn't check for targeting. So if a Treachery can end up on a Blastoderm, but why can't an Animate Dead end up on a pro-black creature?
A: Rule 420.5d of the comprhensive rules says the following:
A local enchantment that enchants an illegal or nonexistent permanent is put into it's owner's graveyard.
A black local enchantment on a creature with protection from black qualifies as illegal. The enchantment will be put in the graveyard and the creature will be destroyed (and can't be regenerated). This is the reason Spirit of the Night has protection from black; to prevent it from being reanimated.
-Gis
- ERDjinn
Gis hasn't done Ask the Judge in years so that is a very old ruling.
Arround when local enchantments because Auras Animate Dead received errata.
Rule 212.4k was also added.
212.4k If an effect attempts to attach an Aura in play to a permanent or player, that permanent or player must be able to be enchanted by it. If the permanent or player can’t be, the Aura doesn’t move.
So,
Animate Dead comes into play
Becomes an Aura targeting Akroma/SSS
It brings Akroma/SSS into play and then attempts to attach itself.
In the case of Akroma it can't because Akroma has protection from Black (that would be the E part of DEBT), so it doesn't move according to 212.4k. State based effects are checked and there is an aura not attached to anything so it goes to the graveyard. That triggers Animate Deads leave play trigger. However it isn't attached to anything to destroy it.
In the case of SSS it can because attaching the aura isn't targeting it.
You forgot to mention the match-up against Eureka/Answers.
Rod, you have one big thing going for you than most don't consider when thinking about why someone or some deck wins.
You have knowledge of playing your deck and the other decks it will play against you.
People think it is only the deck that wins, when in reality it is more of the player.
I'm not surprised you made Top 8, congrads See you friday.
Not that it matters, but I think that rule is broken. The fact that you can use Animate Dead to bring Akroma into play and have Akroma stay in play is a technicality that goes against the spirit of the rules. But whatever. Nobody really cares about the spirit of the rules.
Congrats to the two guys who T8'ed with this deck!
Isn't that what Magic is all about...finding something that is broken and then abusing the hell out of it! Mad Props rodgon666!...oh crap, does this mean you get Legacy Adept status?
[edit]you might want to fix your list above which currently contains 8 Buried Alive...you cheater.[end edit]
When other people do not assert themselves, they may still have something to be proud of, something that they believe is unrivalled, but it is just that they have not got the same vulgarity of throwing their weight about and imposing themselves and their beliefs on other people. - Dunduzu Kalui Chisiza
If you think a topic is dumb, don't add to it. Pretty simple. - Bardo
Based on that tourney top 8ing build, I came up with this list...Hey there! Im Rodrigo Gonzalez from San Diego, and i was the other person in the top 8 with B/G reanimator.
Well here is the decklist that i used and have been using for several months, Ill make some comments about some of the card choices i expect people will ask about afterwards.
4 Putrid Imp
4 Buried Alive
3 Animate Dead
4 Reanimate
2 Recurring Nightmare
4 Exhume
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Buried Alive
4 Dark Ritual
2 Sickening Dreams
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Windswept heath
3 OverGrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
5 Swamp
1 Ascendant Evincar
1 Thunder Dragon
1 Braids Cabal minion
1 Phanthom Nishoba
1 Symic Sky Swallower
1 Sundering Titan
1 Symbiotic Wurm
1 Akroma Angel of wrath
1 Angel of Despair
1 Bringer of the Blue Dawn
/sb
4 Defense Grid
3 Choke
4 Naturalize
2 Sickening Dreams
2 Pernicious Deed
Ok ill separate the cards into the basic elements of the archtype which are discard ( getting creatures into the grave) and reanimation, also utilities such as disruption and such.
Discard:
Imp : Cheap effective discard that works as a lackey blocker and beats down when necesary.
Cabal Therapy: Great when making opponent discard and really good for you as an outlet as well. makes the imps usefull after the creatures are already in the yard.
Sickening Dreams: kills weanie hordes as well as undisruptable discard, since the discard is in adition to the casting cost. Works well as last moment burn spell.
Buried alive: Best tutor after entomb for these decks ( PLEASE UNBAN IT WIZARDS!!!)
Reanimation:
Reanimate: duh. cheap and effective, also good at taking opposing critters.
Exhume: reanimation with a minor drawback.
Animate dead: It only got better after the rescent Pro black trick. Awesome!
Recurring nightmare: Nothing better than beaing able to switch out your fattie for a better one later in the game.
Creatures:
Akroma : DUH...i hear shes good.
Sundering Titan: One sided armagendon against any deck with duels. and hes huuuuuge!
Symic Sky Swallower: Flying Mongoose on crack. Wins games almost as fast ... and sometimes faster than Akroma.
Blazing Archon: great against Madness, Goblins and the mirror. and also any random aggro.
Phanthom Nishoba: YAY! Spirit link and near undestructability! goblins and burn aggro hate this card.
Thunder Dragon: Three damage to all non flyers and it stays in play. If it wasnt for Echo crater hellion would be here.
Angel of Despair: Kills any other anoying thing thats too expensive to deed, or just as a tempo boost.
Symbiotic Wurm: B I G fatty ! Allows beats post flash back therapy, and it works well with Braids.
Braids: Tempo advantage if out early and lock later on with the wurm. Great against Solidarity and random combo like belcher and iggy pop.
Bringer of the Blue Dawn : Perhaps the most controversial card in the deck, But if you stop to think about it, if your drawing 3 cards a turn you shouldnt be losing. ( just for concideration. I dont think ive lost a match where they left the bringer alive because they thought it wasnt powefull ...HA! )
The side board and two deeds main are the reason i splashed green in this deck. Humilty kills you if you dont have a deed or a naturalize.
Choke destroys grow.
Defense Grid annoys solidarity and landstill like hell.
And the extra Sickening Dreams and Deeds come in against Goblins and Grow respectively.
Match ups:
The deck itself has a good match against most of the field. But it shines its best in random metagames.
as ie mentioned before, i have been playing this for several months. close to 8 months or so with this build. so extensive testing against several decks has been done.
Goblins:
70-30 if mono red and green red, 60- 40 if they have white for swords.
Grow:
with white..50-50 ( it really depends on who gets the best hand, swords play a huge part since they can put me in a clock, and as long as i dont nuke their lands with a titan they have a good even chance)
With just red ...70-30 ( no swords mean i win by both beats and if i get a Blazing Archon to stall enough to nuke the board with both titan and others).
Solidarity:
45-55 If i can get any disruption early enough and a couple therapies ( one flashed back) with a fatty for a clock, its all good. still not an easy match. After sideboard it gets considerably better. Choke helps, Grid stalls enough. But sometimes they pull it out of their ass.
Homebrew/ Pikula:
your hardest match would have to be Homebrew. Reanimator is a combo deck, so having every answer to it hurts alot ( swords... duress... hymm...edict...and wretch main hurt quite a bit but its still in range of being won. more like a 35-65.)
If there are any questions please ask.
If you want to check the consistency of the deck, check for the last 6 months in the top 8 in san diego, I believe we stoped posting results on the source a while back. but youll see that whenever i played reanimator ( this build ) i top 8'd, every sinlge time, and the tournaments old for about 30 - 40 people. not tiny 8-15 ish.
this deck arhctype is awesome to play and competitive as hell. but the hate still comes from everyone thats a skeptic about the consistency of its wins.
I wanted to keep it monoblack for budget reasons but I borrowed enormously from his build to create the below deck... what do you guys think?
4 Putrid Imp
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Buried Alive
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Animate Dead
4 Dark Ritual
2 Sickening Dreams
2 Plunge into Darkness
4 Petradon - Works With Wastelands
1 Akroma, Angel - Win Fast
1 Spirit of the Night - Win Fast
1 Simic Sky Swallower - Antiremoval
1 Angel of Despair - Anticontrol
1 Phantom Nishoba - Antiaggro
1 Silent Specter - Anticombo
4 Wasteland
16 Swamp
If your trying to make it into a mono-black build i would suggest trading the petradons for more sundering titans. The own any multicolor deck and the opponent doesnt get the lands back at all. You normally get 2 or 3 perhaps even more land off the titan, rether than just 2 that they get back if petradon gets killed.
Plunge is not the best option for the deck, since it removes the extra cards form the game. and it essentially goes against your combo.
you essentially need some more disruption to replace the pernicious deeds. Spining Darkness is amazing against random aggro. free creature kill and life gain is good last time i heard.
Also for the mono black budget deck ( which would essentially take out the Thunder dragon) i would put Ascendant evincar in the deck. It allows your imps to beat for more. and also decimates grow and slows goblins alot.
also make sure to add Blazing Archon if you plan to make it into a tool box aproach. ( anti aggro. Great versus goblins and red green blue grow.)
Also try Crosis the purger over silent specter. It destroys combo.
turn after turn after turn.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Complete Jank ( mike)
hahahha. thanks, people tend to think playskills have nothing to do with it, but i guess we san diegans play in a whole different level // ^_^ //
Id like to milk that oreo... split it in half...and lick all that sweet sweet candy off. mmmmm... oreos....
I'm going to the next big 1.5 Tourney, I can't let you all have the fun of taking top 8's with out me.
First Nick at Gencon, now you, heck, we took all top 4 spots in the 1.5 tourney in the side event at the Gran Prix this past weekend.
I think people are going to start moving to San Diego for the fact that people play Legacy, and not the weather.
WOW!! DUDE !! all 4 spots? thats awesome!
see. any person who discredits us west coast people should burn. hahahaha
what were the decks... or nevermind just send them to me later. i wouldnt want to get off topic here.
Id like to milk that oreo... split it in half...and lick all that sweet sweet candy off. mmmmm... oreos....
If you guys are playing Reanimator with Buried Alive, why not run Karmic Guide--Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker--Sky Hussar for the immediate win?
mmm.... sounds like a viable idea... only problem is.. none of those creatures are any good by themselves. its worth consideration though.
Id like to milk that oreo... split it in half...and lick all that sweet sweet candy off. mmmmm... oreos....
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote