[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Scott]

I've found that Deeds is a good answer to those cards. I've taken out a Candelabra, Exploration, Top, and 2 Maps in one go. Those cards are the only reason I don't side out the Deeds in that matchup.

The other sucky thing about that matchup is it runs a lot of basics too, upwards of 8-10 I think. So Veteran is helping them just as much, if not more, than its helping you. The deck has a ton of redundancy. A Therapy on turn 1 could hit Map, Exploration, Ancient Stirrings or Crop Rotation. I usually name Crop Rotation if I'm blind b/c its the one that lets them accelerate the most.

I suppose one could be silly and play Aven Mindcensor

[jbone2016]

I suppose one could be silly and play Aven Mindcensor

This was actually how I beat 12 post a few weeks ago. And it did a pretty good job vs omnitell

[Bobmans]

Clearly, the meta is now ready for this: Confetti NicFit
I ran something like this half year ago for fun with my friends, but ended up playing some serious games. Winning from Elves and BUG Delver. Losing to DnT by a margin. With some tweaking it can be competitive, and sure it would hose 12-post, MUD and Marit Lage.

Edit: the tech here is Diabolic Intent, saccing Rector grabbing either Humility or Doubling Season and a combat Planeswalker with Intent.
Also i must add that the ruling of Doubling Season state that when a Planeswalkers enters the battlefield, while under the effect of DS, it does so with twice the number of Loyalty counters on it. But using a +1 ability will not add extra or double counters since it is a "cost" and not an "effect".


4 Veteran Explorer
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
3 Academy Rector
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan // Sun Titan

4 Green Sun's Zenith // Sensei's Divining Top
2 Diabolic Intent

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile // Swords to Plowshares
2 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse

1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Relentless

1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Humility
1 Doubling Season

1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
7 Basics
5 Duals
7 Fetch

//board
1 Nether Void
1 Moat
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Leyline of the Void
..
2/3 Zealous Persecution

[Echelon]

Ahw, no Omniscience?

I'd up the Rector-count to 4. I'd also probably move the Karakas to the SB and replace it with a Dryad Arbor. Being able to fetch food for Cabal Therapy/Diabolic Intent is pretty damn nice. Also, try to find room for Diabolic Intent 3 & 4. I've been running 4 for the longest time in a deck with a similar-ish gameplan (you've seen the list here) and it's served me quite well.

You could also run the Omniscience/Emrakul-package. Feed Rector to Intent, drop Omniscience, Intent for Emrakul, drop Emrakul for an extra turn, ???, profit. Planeswalkers and Doubling Season seem a bit too cute to me.

[Bobmans]

Ahw, no Omniscience?

I'd up the Rector-count to 4. I'd also probably move the Karakas to the SB and replace it with a Dryad Arbor. Being able to fetch food for Cabal Therapy/Diabolic Intent is pretty damn nice. Also, try to find room for Diabolic Intent 3 & 4. I've been running 4 for the longest time in a deck with a similar-ish gameplan (you've seen the list here) and it's served me quite well.

You could also run the Omniscience/Emrakul-package. Feed Rector to Intent, drop Omniscience, Intent for Emrakul, drop Emrakul for an extra turn, ???, profit. Planeswalkers and Doubling Season seem a bit too cute to me.

At first i build this list to be thematical, we had this celebration for one of our friends having his second child. So i found those cards Parallel Lives and Collective Blessing and basicly build a list with Planeswalkers, Lingering Souls and the usual ETB trigger creatures. Also put Humility in the board. The theme was popping confetti. Anyway, pratice proved that grinding the game until landing Humility proved strongest as it "froze" the game. Landing both combat walkers as Parallel Lives finished it. Against Delver decks is camo down to landing walkers, parallel lives and lingering souls as a solid tactic. So at that time i felt Parallel lives and Humility to be a powerful combo in a deck filled with token generators. Lingering Souls and combat walkers being most solid and all this approaches provided different angles/pressure on their own. Zealous Persucution proved to be an important card here to vs BUG, Elves and DnT.

I restricted myself to 3 rectors and 1 Intent, 1 Tower and 4 Therapy. I felt like i had Rector when i needed/wanted it while not clogging or missing them, but was missing some sac outlet. So my first step was adding a 2nd Intent. Also Recurring Nightmare is new to the list and functions as a sac outlet.

Balance between removal, pressure and "tricks" is key here so i am hasitant to sacrifice removal or pressure for more "tricks". Testing might going to prove otherwise tho as i am just going on a gut feeling here.

Omni+Emmy might be a solid board option at first, but being Junk colors both cards might clog in my hand being unuseful. A couple of pages back i have this 4c Rector list that has the manabase to actually hardcast Omniscience and/or Emrakul. Omniscience is out of the question here. On top of that, that list has way more synergy with the rest of that list then this list has in the form of card advantage mechanics. This list is more focussed on creature combat and all cards interact in one way or another supporting creature combat strategy.

While people might try to attack and prevent Rector from happening we can still go attacking from different angles, making it innevitable in a way.

Dryad Militant might be a very solid option, but not maindeck since Lingering Souls is such an imprtant card here. Scavenging Ooze is the maindeck weapon of choice to fight gravebased combo. It does, however, provide an extra body like you said.

[Echelon]

Yeah, the number of potential sac-outlets you run is rather low. Currently I run 4 Diabolic Intent (not Edict, lol ), 4 Therapy and a Phyrexian Tower and still find myself wanting another outlet every now and again.

It's just too bad green doesn't have a cheap & worthwhile sac-outlet creature. Would've been nice to be able to GSZ for it.

[Holo_rip]

@Bobmans

Cute list indeed. However, i think we dangerously fall into the danger of the nice things trap.

While all those card have great synergy when everything get involved, if we take them one by one they are kind of...below average i would say (except for the walker) ? We are already stretched pretty thin in order to have a stable and flexible deck, and those type of card don't seem to really cut it if you take them one without the other.

I'd rather run more control elements in order to stabilize faster and get a firm grip on our game more easily.

All in all i'll give it a go just in case, i might get surprised. It really looks like the former list we had for nicfit at the very begin of the deck.

[Bobmans]

@Bobmans

Cute list indeed. However, i think we dangerously fall into the danger of the nice things trap.

While all those card have great synergy when everything get involved, if we take them one by one they are kind of...below average i would say (except for the walker) ? We are already stretched pretty thin in order to have a stable and flexible deck, and those type of card don't seem to really cut it if you take them one without the other.

I'd rather run more control elements in order to stabilize faster and get a firm grip on our game more easily.

All in all i'll give it a go just in case, i might get surprised. It really looks like the former list we had for nicfit at the very begin of the deck.

Yes, there is a trap there and the question is: where is the line drawn. Ramping a t2/3 rector into a soft/hard locking enchantment isn't to be considered cute if one would run the right enchantment package.
I consider the creature token/walker/doubling season as dangerously cute. At a certain point it reaches critical mass and typically any fair deck will break against it.
The deck holds a normal/regular amount of control with the removal package (only 1 PDeed has been sacrificed to make room) As an extra it run both Gaddock Teeg and Scavenging Ooze which are pretty strong card against certain amount of decks. Also i included Thragtusk as a life extender vs faster decks. Plus it synergies well with the mean strategy. The same goes for Grave Titan. The card on its own is pretty good, and can potentially outrace Emrakul as has been pointed out in this thread a while ago.
To be honost i bursted out this list 5 minutes before going to work and is purely based on memories of the earlier list and from what i rembered of evaluating it's performance back then.
The list is very open for improvement and streamlining. The danger in this deck lies in combining the wrong cards at the wrong time. Knowledge of how to play what against what based on the current and possible interaction with the opponent is key.
The games i played back then where very interesting and amusing and a couple of games where punted because i put the wrong combination of card after boarding and sequenced them wrong during actual gameplay. It did feel promising knowing that other choices would have changed the entire game.

I hope you will at least enjoy playing the list, but remember. This is merely a fun concept with me beleiving it might actually be something more then cute here.

[jbone2016]

Does Dromoka's command have any appeal to Junk at all? Stopping a price in progress seems legit among other uses.

[Ralf]

Does Dromoka's command have any appeal to Junk at all? Stopping a price in progress seems legit among other uses.

I was never a fan of 3 CMC charms but every 2 CMC charms/command (GB, UB and GW) have their utility.
Choosing to play the GW one might be a pretty good option:
- a way to deal with enchantment (at least, it could be an out to Omniscience unless it is countered)
- another way to sacrifice a veteran (even better if you +1/+1 the say vet and kill a delver with the "fight a creature" ability)
- combat tricks (might be the best ability in a vacuum)
- the first one is NOT my favourite although. But well, if you have burn everywhere...

I might reconsider playing Rhino with this command because at least, you could compete ,to a certain extend, with 5/6 goyfs.

PS: in JUND colors, one might consider Destructive Flow if 12 posts, lands, etc... is heavy in his metagame.

PS2: the main problem I see with GW command "how many would you like to play ?"

[honz]

...list...

It's just too bad green doesn't have a cheap & worthwhile sac-outlet creature. Would've been nice to be able to GSZ for it.

Obligatory plug for birthing pod. You're already dancing with abusing etb triggers, abusing tokens, a desire to tutor a creature, and a need for sac outlets.

Just imagine the joy of: tap birthing pod, sac academy rector, search up doubling season off the rector trigger, then grab deranged hermit off the pod activation, for 8 2/2 squirrels.

[Arianrhod]

I suppose one could be silly and play Aven Mindcensor

Do not underestimate Mindcensor as a sideboard option for white lists. I've even maindecked him at times. T1 Therapy -> T2 Explorer/flashback with Mindcensor mana up is absolutely insane in some matchups.

[Memories of the Time]

PS: in JUND colors, one might consider Destructive Flow if 12 posts, lands, etc... is heavy in his metagame.

I think that Primal Order is better in these mu and is good against MUD too, like. I'm playing the 1x in my sideboard.

[Bobmans]

I think that Primal Order is better in these mu and is good against MUD too, like. I'm playing the 1x in my sideboard.

While Primal Order would often be a 5-3 turn clock it does not fix Depths/Stage. Also it still gives a MUD time and mana to setup for the win. Destructive Flow would be fit more into a attrition plan keeping MUD small while also being able to "lock" depths player, BUT i think Destructive Flow would work better with an engine consisting out of Life from the Loam, Wasteland and possibly Hymn to Tourah/Ghost Quarter. Also Diabolic Intent, Titania and Borborygmos Enraged could fully exploit such a build. I do see potential, but that would mean creating a new list build around this while also hold tools to keep fighting combo/tempo/control.

A very rough sketch of list with i was pondering about: feel free to shoot.

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Primeval Titan
1 Borborygmos Enraged

4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sense's Divining Top
1 Life from the Loam
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Destructive Flow

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicous Deed
3 Abrup Decay
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Liliana of the Veil

3 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire

[Memories of the Time]

I don't know how much Pod affects the mu, but i'm playing 2 deed and 2 liliana and the mu vs creature.deck is very good: i've 3 decay in the sideboard, of course, but 3 deed and 3 decay + 3 liliana+3 bolt seems an overkill for me.

[Bobmans]

I don't know how much Pod affects the mu, but i'm playing 2 deed and 2 liliana and the mu vs creature.deck is very good: i've 3 decay in the sideboard, of course, but 3 deed and 3 decay + 3 liliana+3 bolt seems an overkill for me.

Thats pretty much a standard removal package for PFire builds, but with 1 Maelstrom Pulse + 1 Vraska and 1x flex which is now Kolaghans Command. Also 3pfire instead of bolt. It happens that sometimes even then i have shortage of removal. Hard control.

[Tom4ik]

For what its worth, I was playing Esper mentor in modern and kolgahns command was VERY real in that format. 3 mana is a lot to pay but all the modes are relevant in returning a dude, shocking one of legacys many x/2's and upkeep discard. Can also blow up equips as well. If you are already on pulse I wouldnt play it but if you are on <4 Decay and are looking for more generically useful cards I could see this.

[Ancestral]

I ve been trying pod indifferent shells, and junk or bug has been the better ones!

Anyone is playing birthing pod versions in competetive enviorments? If yes, wich versions amd how its working for you guys?

For me junk has bigger density of good creatures, like as beeing said before, and i totaly agree, some people.tru things that just work if it has many engines runnig, and white provides good crratures by itself!
In bug version there are always braimstorm wicj is always percfect and creatures like clique, glem elendra and baleful strix!

Another doub that i have its seems be stock 23/22 creatures im every pod version wich leaves less space for braisntorm/swords/decay and green suns zenith! Anyone that has tested morethan me.think this stcol numbr can chnge for low? And play even mpre 1ofs?

[Bobmans]

Obligatory plug for birthing pod. You're already dancing with abusing etb triggers, abusing tokens, a desire to tutor a creature, and a need for sac outlets.

Just imagine the joy of: tap birthing pod, sac academy rector, search up doubling season off the rector trigger, then grab deranged hermit off the pod activation, for 8 2/2 squirrels.

While Pod sounds very unfair in combination with Academy Rector i think that it needs a build that willl have to support too many things.
1. Have a solid Rector package (needs room).
2. Need a Creature amount/cmc that supports Pod and give the ability to effective chain them.
3. Needs a strong cmc 2 spot, which for JunK colors would be Stoneforge Mystic. SFM requires a Equip package. Jitte would work very well with doubling Season, but requires more room.
4. Need a removal/disruption package in order to consitantly build towards blowing up the game with Pod/Rector.
5. Needs finishers, outside of Rector/Enchant and SFM/equip it would require some dedicated slots for finishers. Deranged Hermit sounds really awesome, but i think Thragtusk and Grave Titan are best choices. Thragtusk gives 5 life which is a lot. If you activate Pod saccing Thragtusk and fetch Grave Titan you get 2x 3/3 beast and 4x 2/2 zombies + 6/6 deathtouch (more zombies) and the ability to race even Emrakul.

Anyway, i think Pod would be the best engine to support Rector, i just are afraid that there wouldn't be any consistancy because it would require soo many different business.

[Echelon]

It would be so awesome to support SFM, Pod & Rector in the same deck but you'll probably spend most your time durdling about.