You Brainstorm a little or go high with Fateseal then they Use Kuldotha and Fetch a Inkwell Leviathan or a Spine of Ish Sash..
Can't really help that matchup without Null Rod or at very least Cursed Totem
I can't even wrap my head around boarding out SDT and bringing in Null Rod in any matchup. How many MUD players do you regularly face that you need to warp your boarding strategy that much? And what MUD builds are running Inkwell Leviathan?Originally Posted by Poron
I'd really like to see the list you're currently running, sideboard included, I feel like you may be in a metagame that is VERY different from ours.
every MUD I found has 2 uncounterable Sundering Titan (Golem in Cavern of Souls) and 1 sb Leviathan for Miracle.
In case the firdt thing they drop is Metalworker they just fetch for Staff of Dominance..
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Last edited by Gros; 06-09-2015 at 10:29 AM.
Metalworker doesn't get Staff.
Just mull down to Blood Moon and 3 lands if the MU is going that poorly for you. I can't but imagine you're doing something (many things) wrong, though.
Poron please stop mentioning Null Rod. your meta must be from a different planet. There are so many better options than playing Null Rod. Just check vintage sideboards and see what they do against shopdecks.
you could use energy flux for example, or hurkyls recall or humility or back to basics if you want (they have disadvantages obviously) BUT DONT BOARD OUT SENSEI'S FUCKING DIVINING FUCKING TOP and dont bring in FREAKING NULL ROD.
they fetch with Kuldotha
So they have a Metalworker, and a Kuldotha Forgemaster, and 2 other artifacts in play? What turn is this? What have you been doing to let them get to that point?
Here are some cards that help against MUD: Blood Moon, Engineered Explosives (blows up Chalices for 0), Meddling Mage on Staff or Chalice, Back to Basics (better than Blood Moon in this specific matchup), Disenchant, Wear//Tear, Council's Judgment, Seal of Cleansing. Hell, I'd run Shatterstorm over Null Rod.
Don't get me wrong, it's a bad matchup, but certainly not bad enough to use a card that shuts down the #1 reason to run Miracles in the first place. This isn't like Rest in Peace vs Re-animator where it slightly inconveniences you but totally screws them. You get a Null Rod out, and guess what, they just lock you down with Chalices and Trinispheres anyways and beat you down with Lodestone Golems and Wurmcoil Engines.
You are right about Back to Basics and Eng Exp.
I just find that matchup terrible because every card is a threath.
Chalice, Trinisphere, Kuldotha, Titan, Colossus, Wurmcoil, 4x Lodestone Golem (uncounterable and 5 strenght).
Oh yes, Ugin.
I don't play MUD but when a MUD player player on games 2-3 auto keeps their hand of 7 against Miracles is it fair to assume they are planning to power out a chalice of some form on the first two turns or so?
When it comes to sideboarding cards, use cards that hurt your opponent more but only slightly annoy you. Null rod destroys SDT while they still have a wurmcoil with the ability to beat your face in.
I fear much more Sundering Titan.
Uncounterable and 99% of the time it kills 4 to 6 lands when you see it.
Really.. I need something here.. Hurkyl's Recall may be and Meddling Mage on that as well as Cursed Totem to block Kuldotha
Hurkyl's Recall is a much more reasonable answer than Null Rod, so yeah I'd try that first. Cursed Totem is way too specific, if you're that scared of Kuldotha just save a counterspell or StP for it.
You still haven't said anything about your build and how many MUD decks you actually face regularly. I'm assuming you're on the Ponder build, but do you really have multiple MUD players in your area that you play against often?
This really confuses me. If you're that scared of Kuldotha, then why aren't you only keeping hands with StP or Force to deal with it? Seems like this is just a case of making sure you have plenty of counter magic and mulliganing as appropriate to insure it. Sure they have lots of threats, but in general you should be saving your removal and counter magic for the things that actually kill you.
Because it happens that they have CotV 1x on the bf..
I can only rely on FoWs normally.. which are card pure disadvantage and they can, anyway to it after a Trinisphere when you have tapped out for Jace.
To me, it's a nightmare matchup. Anyway, if I'm the only one, just don't consider MUD and let's talk back of Grixis...
You can also try asking on the MUD thread for suggestions on how to approach the matchup and some cards you could play against them, if you're not finding what you want here.
Also, I will reiterate that you haven't mentioned at all how much you expect to face MUD, yet you seem to be freaking out about the deck. Understanding how much you're going to play against a deck is very important when considering how much (at all) you want to try to build your deck around beating the deck. Nobody is saying the matchup isn't a bad matchup, so it's not that "you're the only one having trouble." People just aren't inclined to care much about playing against decks which represent a small portion of most metagames.
Another angle you can approach is trying to prevent their creatures from doing much. You can try Humility, Ensnaring Bridge, or Moat to all deal with this. Humility is particularly powerful because they can't use metalworker to still cast expensive things, and they can't use forgemaster to search up Spine of Ish Sah. That said, 4 mana spells can be rough to cast (at all or even in a timely manner) in face of lodestone golems and wastelands.
every time time I won was with an alt-win Entreat..
Only in those matches where I didn't see any Titans around..
Humility, good one.
Last edited by Poron; 06-08-2015 at 07:09 PM.
Humility, Blood Moon and counterspell on Ugin win the game.
Plowshares, Terminus, Council's Judgment and Wear Tear can help us.
I play frequently vs MUD with the Ein list and I remove the Ponder to decrease the spells with CC1.
If you go in the previous pages you can read an analisys of this matchup i've make months ago.
I've played my fair share of games against MUD on MTGO, and i do echo what everyone else is saying. Null Rod is a horrible tool against them.
Also, as much as MUD does get blazing fast and ridiculous starts, there are also hands where after powering out a chalice and trinisphere, and are in top deck modes. i believe the reason MUD isn't taking down more tournaments is that the variance of the deck is just too high.
Against MUD, here is how i usually board.
Out
4 x Counterbalance
1 x STP
1 x Terminus
In
1 x Engineered Explosives
1 x Wear/Tear
1 x Counterspell
1 x Blood Moon
2 x Vendilion Clique
1 x Elspeth, Knight Errant
Game plan is simple. Let them cast everything that doesnt kill you, and keep your counterspells for things that do. These cards hurt, but are still manageable.
- Trinisphere
- Grim Monoliths
- Sphere of Resistance
- Lodestone Golem
- and if you already have a top in play, Chalice of the void.
What you want to do is Make land drops. Pressure with an early V Clique or Entreat for 1-2 if possible. They take alot of damage from their tombs, so cliques or even snaps can be a reasonable clock. Be careful with Blood Moon. Make sure you have access to at least 2U and 1W land before dropping it. (if not, at least an active top)
Finally, hope that they lose to their top decks. If MUD draws well, it is very unlikely that we can win anyway.
As a former MUD player, I endorse the advice that was just given. I especially endorse the note about Vendilion Clique, Snapcaster Mage, or a small Entreat pressuring their life total. Ancient Tomb really does add up fast, I'd often drop to 8 or 10 life just from my own lands with that deck. If the deck gives you this plan, run with it because the MUD player is definitely not expecting to get killed by little blue creatures during the middlegame. They're looking for either the opening hand blowout or the gradual effects of threat density (via Cavern of Souls) taking down the match.
I played against a lot of Miracles players (it's the reason to play MUD and tolerate the variance) back then and I definitely usually won. The games I didn't win involved Vendilion Clique beatdown, Jace fatesealing my already shaky deck into oblivion, or all my robots getting plowed because I didn't have a Chalice.
I don't think the matchup is as bad as all that, but there are a lot of "feel bad" losses where the Miracles player just never had a chance to do anything, i.e. T1 Chalice@1, T2 Cavern --> Metalworker, T3 Forgemaster. That's a "feel bad" hand against anything that didn't open with Force.
To get back to the point of Grixis Control:
I kind of like boarding out Snapcasters and Dig against them to bring in RIP. The deck isn't half as good when it can't rely on it's draw engine or double Therapy.
Also: Stoneforge + Batterskull is insane here.
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