[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[Strassbaw]

Clearly.

Anyway, Qasali Pridemage is in no way "strictly better" (figuratively speaking) than Reclamation Sage. Being a two-for-one is far more significant than you're making it out to be. Yes, Harmonic Sliver existed, but it was also a piece of shit for exactly the reasons you mentioned. One power is the difference between Lightning Bolt and Shock, and it's also your defense of Qasali Pridemage.

The fact of the matter is just that Qasali Pridemage fits better in a maindeck when you're unsure whether there will be relevant targets presented.

Also, to answer Strassbaw's question that wasn't actually phrased as a question, I too am a general fan of Reclamation Sage, but it, unfortunately, has yet to make it into any finished sideboard of mine. Reason being that there's honestly just more tons more deserving things to put in the sideboard. Also, being a trigger, Reclamation Sage shouldn't be your go-to guy for defeating Omni. I'd definitely bring it in if I had one, but they can easily win around it in most circumstances.

Thanks for the feedback lolwut, jelly doughnut and Rekk.


Most often I have opted for 1 pridemage effect in the main deck and sage in the board, however, I think I may have over valued Pridemage against omni game one, and I am currently running 2 in my most recent winning lists which may change. The sage has not only hit Pithing needles that have named pridemage, and Cursed totems, but it has also been the artifact kill, and Jitte equipment bearer all in one card. In fact, getting a pridemage for 1 less mana with GSZ seems to be an unrealistic advantage. If you need to activate pridemage (losing your 2/2 exalated body) that turn, it's the same mana as Sage and you lose the body. If killing equipments, or CB (cards that cost more than 1-2 are better CB killers) is prevalent in your metagame than sage is worth considering.

When Sage fights Omnitell, I think you raise a good point about how ineffective this card may become because of wish. This is a disappointing realisation I had because Dig Through Time is also an instant, and they can resolve that spell finding all types of good stuff for free while Rec Sage trigger is on the stack. This is truly a bummer! I'll post results against the deck with how I'm outfitted currently, but I think without Thalia right now, I may be dead in the water against Omnitell (even with Rebs and Etutor canonist in board).


Ps. @ Rekk, I may have read it wrong, but Rec Sage does not kill humility unfortunately if that was a positive side of the card some players may have seen. Humilty makes sage a 1/1 with no effects because it's an ETB trigger not an "As it enters the battlefield" effect.

[iamajellydonut]

When Sage fights Omnitell, I think you raise a good point about how ineffective this card may become because of wish. This is a disappointing realisation I had because Dig Through Time is also an instant, and they can resolve that spell finding all types of good stuff for free while Rec Sage trigger is on the stack. This is truly a bummer! I'll post results against the deck with how I'm outfitted currently, but I think without Thalia right now, I may be dead in the water against Omnitell (even with Rebs and Etutor canonist in board).

It's not a certainty that they'll have the kill in response, but considering the limited amount of relevant pressure Maverick can apply, it's relatively common. I mean, again, it's definitely worth boarding in Reclamation Sage against OmniShow if you have one in your board. It's just not Krosan Grip. You can't pack it in, leave yourself with opportunity to put it into play, and consider the job done. It just better than nothing and can get the job done with what could be considered a reasonable frequency. Mainly you need to rely on them either having a shitty hand or you need to have an Ethersworn Canonist in conjunction.

With all that in mind, it's actually worth noting that Qasali Pridemage is actually better than Reclamation Sage off of Show and Tell since you can pop it in response to whatever they cast first.

[Moroklumpen]

With all that in mind, it's actually worth noting that Qasali Pridemage is actually better than Reclamation Sage off of Show and Tell since you can pop it in response to whatever they cast first.

Except for Emrakul.

Basically, if they can go off at instant speed then Pridemage is better; I faced that problem when I faced S&T with Dredge and happily plopped down Ashen Rider before losing to Release the Ants. If they need to cast a sorcery or a non-flashy creature then an EtB creature is better since you get priority before the stack empties. So it's important to know your meta and know what the different versions of the stock decks are most likely to play.

[Cambriel]

Well, these days it's a gamble either way. Sneak and Show has been almost totally replaced by Omni-Tell, which will either hard cast Emrakul or a Cunning Wish depending. That match revolves a lot less around sticking a Sage or Pridemage than it does Thalia, Ethersworn Canonist, and Containment Priest.

[LOLWut]

Anyway, Qasali Pridemage is in no way "strictly better" (figuratively speaking) than Reclamation Sage. Being a two-for-one is far more significant than you're making it out to be. Yes, Harmonic Sliver existed, but it was also a piece of shit for exactly the reasons you mentioned. One power is the difference between Lightning Bolt and Shock, and it's also your defense of Qasali Pridemage.

Actually, my defense of Pridemage was

Namely, blowing stuff up at instant speed, GSZing for one less mana, and being able to fetch it and beat with it until you need its ability instead of having to wait until the troublesome artifact/enchantment appears.

One power, and the other combat stuff, are things in the realm of Sage's 2-for-1, that mitigate that one advantage, and tip the scales a little more. It's a minor detail instead of your whole argument regarding Sage/Sliver.

I'm very skeptical that 1 point of power (Sliver's is irrelevant in Maverick and you won't be wanting for targets on the opposite side of the table in the match-ups you bring it in, so that's the only different between the two) turns the inferior Sliver into the candidate Sage. I'm also skeptical that that 1 point of power is more relevant than things like: not needing 4 (or even 5 with Thalia) mana to GSZ for it, knowing you'll need it in the match-up and not having to hold up the GSZ and lose beatface time, being able to destroy equipment cast and equipped in the same turn, being able to response to things shrouded with Greaves or whatever, popping it on their turn when you really need to against Painter's Servant, Helm of Obedience, Counterbalance, etc, and other shtuff. Plus, Torpor Orb is gonna hose your brains out

[Warden]

Krosan Grip is where I'd rather be. 2:2 with QPM and Scooze and just run like 2 grips + QPM #3 in the side

[TMagpie]

Rec Sage is card advantage--don't think of it as anything else. Its first goal is to allow you to make gains and value trades vs slow decks.

I ran sex monkey before rec sage's printing. And if it wasn't for show and tell (either variant) I'd probably be running sex monkey over rec sage for the extra toughness.

I currently run 4 Qasali (main) 2 Abrupt (Side) 1 Rec Sage (Side)

[DudeItsCorey]

So there is a question I would like to revisit. I want to know why Maverick players are all about Courser of Kruphix? I'm finding lists that are playing it over say a second Sylvan Library. It took me a while, but I find Sylvan Library to be green's "brainstorm". The effect is way too powerful that I would never want to run less than two (maybe 1 main and 1 side for heavy combo/tempo metas). What is the value in Courser? I tried testing him and was never overly thrilled to hard cast it and would never find myself green sun zennithing for him either. The only time he has been exceptional was against other fair grindy matchups, which I feel is already our strong suit. So more of a "win more" scenario. I know Herzog is the innovator that placed Courser in the 75, and a lot of people take his word as gold, but can people tell me why they Courser is so good? Maybe there is something that I am missing. I'm currently running two scavenging ooze mainboard and would think that I could go down on 1 if there is value in including Courser.

[Warden]

So there is a question I would like to revisit. I want to know why Maverick players are all about Courser of Kruphix? I'm finding lists that are playing it over say a second Sylvan Library. It took me a while, but I find Sylvan Library to be green's "brainstorm". The effect is way too powerful that I would never want to run less than two (maybe 1 main and 1 side for heavy combo/tempo metas). What is the value in Courser? I tried testing him and was never overly thrilled to hard cast it and would never find myself green sun zennithing for him either. The only time he has been exceptional was against other fair grindy matchups, which I feel is already our strong suit. So more of a "win more" scenario. I know Herzog is the innovator that placed Courser in the 75, and a lot of people take his word as gold, but can people tell me why they Courser is so good? Maybe there is something that I am missing. I'm currently running two scavenging ooze mainboard and would think that I could go down on 1 if there is value in including Courser.

Not to troll, but have you even played with Courser? He's fantastic against a fair and delver heavy meta. He net gains you life while blocking and ANYTHING involving lands boosts you a ton. I've won games thanks to Courser stabilizing me at ~5 life....floating me back to ~10+. Courser only gets better with top/library/KotR/fetches.
Right now, the top decks are heavily stacked against Maverick, but it doesn't take away from his value against everyone else.

[iamajellydonut]

So there is a question I would like to revisit. I want to know why Maverick players are all about Courser of Kruphix? I'm finding lists that are playing it over say a second Sylvan Library.

If it's a straight up choice between Courser or Library, Library wins. Every time. But if you're looking at Library number two or number three, the idea of a Sylvan Library on legs becomes far more appealing. And that's what Courser of Kruphix is. He's card filter, card advantage, and he's got legs. The only real downside is that he's not a 2/2 at 2cc.

[Cambriel]

Courser + Library go together better than peanut butter and chocolate. It feels like cheating.

[DudeItsCorey]

Not to troll, but have you even played with Courser? He's fantastic against a fair and delver heavy meta. He net gains you life while blocking and ANYTHING involving lands boosts you a ton. I've won games thanks to Courser stabilizing me at ~5 life....floating me back to ~10+. Courser only gets better with top/library/KotR/fetches.
Right now, the top decks are heavily stacked against Maverick, but it doesn't take away from his value against everyone else.

See again, we are already set up to beat delver and other fair decks, so to me Courser seems like a win more. I would be more inclined to add 2x Spirit of the Lab to the mainboard to combat miracles, omniscience, elves, and other decks that we have trouble with. I don't know, I'll play test with him more and see if I can see what everyone else sees.

[TMagpie]

See again, we are already set up to beat delver and other fair decks, so to me Courser seems like a win more. I would be more inclined to add 2x Spirit of the Lab to the mainboard to combat miracles, omniscience, elves, and other decks that we have trouble with. I don't know, I'll play test with him more and see if I can see what everyone else sees.

Courser has two main strengths.

1st: Think of a fair creature that sees plenty of play other than Goyf, Knight and Ooze that beats Courser, then think about that same creature in a game state with little to no graveyards. Courser bullies most creatures in Legacy that are not outright played to be massive all while gaining life and drawing cards.

2nd: He draws cards vs miracles, has 4 toughness + lifegain vs burn, is bigger than almost everything D&T/BUG has, gives you a fatty vs grave hate, etc... He kind of does everything you want your 61st card to do.

Think of him as like a fatter Scryb Ranger. Looks crappy, but after playing with it for a while you realize its much more dynamic than it appears. The drawback is that its card power is kinda of the same as Scryb Ranger.

[meso94]

Hello Maverick Players,

I am still piloting Punishing Dark Maverick with a good deal of success. Recently, Omnitell has made a big impact at my local game store, and I am choosing a few cards to adjust in my deck to improve my decks ability to fight what's been current in the top 8's.

The first card I am looking at for the main deck is Spirit of the Labyrinth. Most players seem to be playing blue decks with lots of extra cantrips to promote Dig Through Time. This card seems like a great way to slow decks down, and cards like Forked Bolt are a lot less played now that TC is banned.

The next thing I wanna discuss is REB/Pyroblast in the board. Currently I have been running 2 Pyroblast in the board, however, I am considering uping the number to 3 to deal with all the Blue decks. Is 3 overkill? I've looked at Punishing Maverick historically, and many players never opted for more than 2 Rebs in an Etutor package.

Last I wanna talk about Aven Mindcensor. This card was a staple in the deck before Thalia was printed, and many players have opted against this card recently. Has anyone tried this card recently? The card has bought me a turn or 2 against Omnitell, and it flys, so equiping it has been a great way to get around Elves or sometimes Mother of Ruins.

Good luck to those daring enough not to play Brainstorm right now!

Here is my current 75 with experimental build for current meta:


---Punishing Dark Maverick---

21 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Spirit of the Labyrinth 2
Aven mindcensor 2
Gadock teeg 1
Scavenging ooze 1
Qasali pridemage 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15 Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the loam 1

Lands 24

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Thespian stage 1
Dark depths 1


E-turor board:
Pyroblast 2
Enlightened tutor 2
Choke 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Null Rod 1
Tormods Crypt 1
Engineered explosives 1
Oblivion ring 1
Reclamation sage 1
Gadock teeg 1
Bajaku bog 1

I really like this deck...I'm new to this forum and searching for a deck, non blue cause i don't like that colour, that fit my style...I found this and Nic Fit deck (both with punishing fire variant)...I ask you some questions:

- is this deck viable in this metagame?? What are his best and worse MU??
- what is his best conformation??
- the style of the deck is like a Death & Taxes or i totally do not understand the goal of the deck??

thanks a lot for your answers and sorry if my english is not so good, but i'm from Italy

[Strassbaw]

I really like this deck...I'm new to this forum and searching for a deck, non blue cause i don't like that colour, that fit my style...I found this and Nic Fit deck (both with punishing fire variant)...I ask you some questions:

- is this deck viable in this metagame?? What are his best and worse MU??
- what is his best conformation??
- the style of the deck is like a Death & Taxes or i totally do not understand the goal of the deck??

thanks a lot for your answers and sorry if my english is not so good, but i'm from Italy

Hello Meso94 and thanks for asking about the list. In the past I have had a lot of success with Punishing Maverick, and today I am still do very well with the list after a few meta adjustments to the deck. When Treasure Cruise was a card, UR delver was a huge part of the meta, and I played Stone Forge Mystic with Batterskull. SFM is not usually a card I want in this deck, as Punishing fire beats most fair decks, but at that time Batterskull SFM was correct.

Now I have to adjust to the decks people are playing now , and I have opted to play both Thalia and Punishing fire in the same deck for a few weeks now. I have done very well with the inclusion of Thalia against Show and Tell and Miracles, while still doing well against the various delver decks. I have not had time to test Thalia in other matchups, but I'm sure she can be useful even if she is a Non-Bo with Punishing Fire Combo.

This is the 75 I will be running for the Philadelphia Area Legacy Series:

---Punishing Dark Maverick---

22 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Thalia, guardian of thrabein 3
Gadock teeg 2
Qasali pridemage 2
Scavenging ooze 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15 Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the loam 1

Lands 23

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Cavern of souls 1


E-turor board:
Pyroblast 3
Enlightened tutor 2
Choke 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Null Rod 1
Tormods Crypt 1
Engineered explosives 1
Oblivion ring 1
Reclamation sage 1
Bajaku bog 1


I dropped the DD/Stage for cavern of Souls, and I dropped Mindcensor once I added Thalia into the deck. The Pyroblast have been amazing in this meta, as most decks are blue now and the deck runs plenty of Red sources. This deck is 100% viable in my eyes, just be careful as to how you play your lands because the mana base is fragile. 4C pun fire decks are inherently weak to wasteland so play carefully. Good luck and please feel free to ask more questions if you have any.

[meso94]

Hello Meso94 and thanks for asking about the list. In the past I have had a lot of success with Punishing Maverick, and today I am still do very well with the list after a few meta adjustments to the deck. When Treasure Cruise was a card, UR delver was a huge part of the meta, and I played Stone Forge Mystic with Batterskull. SFM is not usually a card I want in this deck, as Punishing fire beats most fair decks, but at that time Batterskull SFM was correct.

Now I have to adjust to the decks people are playing now , and I have opted to play both Thalia and Punishing fire in the same deck for a few weeks now. I have done very well with the inclusion of Thalia against Show and Tell and Miracles, while still doing well against the various delver decks. I have not had time to test Thalia in other matchups, but I'm sure she can be useful even if she is a Non-Bo with Punishing Fire Combo.

This is the 75 I will be running for the Philadelphia Area Legacy Series:

---Punishing Dark Maverick---

22 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Thalia, guardian of thrabein 3
Gadock teeg 2
Qasali pridemage 2
Scavenging ooze 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15 Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the loam 1

Lands 23

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Cavern of souls 1


E-turor board:
Pyroblast 3
Enlightened tutor 2
Choke 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Null Rod 1
Tormods Crypt 1
Engineered explosives 1
Oblivion ring 1
Reclamation sage 1
Bajaku bog 1


I dropped the DD/Stage for cavern of Souls, and I dropped Mindcensor once I added Thalia into the deck. The Pyroblast have been amazing in this meta, as most decks are blue now and the deck runs plenty of Red sources. This deck is 100% viable in my eyes, just be careful as to how you play your lands because the mana base is fragile. 4C pun fire decks are inherently weak to wasteland so play carefully. Good luck and please feel free to ask more questions if you have any.

I have other questions about what are best and worse MU for this particular deck, and why choose it over other version like GW??

[lavafrogg]

You really don't want to play punishing fire and Thalia in the same deck. Especially as a 4 of. Punishing fire recursion is super expensive as it is(3 per damage) and at 4 per shit you will not be able to do anything else.

The straight GW version is better against miracles even though the red version has blasts in the board. More pride ages and haddock teegs are the best way to beat miracles. The same is true for combo with Thalia's, teegs and ober bear.

The punishng fires were always for the creature mirrors and the punishing version was created to win the maverick late game and as a more efficient way to kill an active mother of runes. The blasts were more to force through chokes than to counter anything.

Maverick in general is extremely mana hungry so I don't know why you would want to open yourself up to more color screw(also why the red version usually main decked a loam).

So: GW better against combo, miracles, random.dec, midrange aggro

Punishing fire better in the mirror.

Both versions are doing against delver decks and both versions still have a bad miracles matchup, hence why no one plays maverick.

[meso94]

You really don't want to play punishing fire and Thalia in the same deck. Especially as a 4 of. Punishing fire recursion is super expensive as it is(3 per damage) and at 4 per shit you will not be able to do anything else.

The straight GW version is better against miracles even though the red version has blasts in the board. More pride ages and haddock teegs are the best way to beat miracles. The same is true for combo with Thalia's, teegs and ober bear.

The punishng fires were always for the creature mirrors and the punishing version was created to win the maverick late game and as a more efficient way to kill an active mother of runes. The blasts were more to force through chokes than to counter anything.

Maverick in general is extremely mana hungry so I don't know why you would want to open yourself up to more color screw(also why the red version usually main decked a loam).

So: GW better against combo, miracles, random.dec, midrange aggro

Punishing fire better in the mirror.

Both versions are doing against delver decks and both versions still have a bad miracles matchup, hence why no one plays maverick.

With those informations i think that generally the GW Version is more powerful and reliable with differents MU, i can't choose between this deck and Nic Fit, what deck do you think is much better in this meta?? I'm new to legacy, pass from Modern (cause of lots of speculations) in those days and i'm thinking of what deck cuold be mine...i really hate bleu deck, i can't play with them...any suggestions?? (sorry for this little off-topic)

[DudeItsCorey]

It's too bad that Worldspine Wurm only trigger upon death and not when it leaves the battlefield. That would be a great anti terminus/swords to Plowshares card. If that was the case then I could see Maverick taking the Natural Order route. I saw elves resolve a Ruric Thar against Omni show and they Omni couldn't deal. Even though that isn't the worst matchup for us, it would be a good way to battle the meta. Progenitus for the fair matchups, Ruric Thar for the combo and Worldspine Wurm for the contol. If only we had a giant green monster that left dudes behind after they leave the battlefield.

[Seraphix]

With those informations i think that generally the GW Version is more powerful and reliable with differents MU, i can't choose between this deck and Nic Fit, what deck do you think is much better in this meta?? I'm new to legacy, pass from Modern (cause of lots of speculations) in those days and i'm thinking of what deck cuold be mine...i really hate bleu deck, i can't play with them...any suggestions?? (sorry for this little off-topic)

I don't think it has been clearly stated, but I don't think you want to be playing a straight GW list today. Deathrite Shaman plus discard and sweepers in the sideboard go a long way in shoring up some of the deck's weaknesses. You can get away with as few as 1 or 2 black duals to play this splash, so the deckbuilding cost is fairly low while the upside is very high.

It's too bad that Worldspine Wurm only trigger upon death and not when it leaves the battlefield. That would be a great anti terminus/swords to Plowshares card. If that was the case then I could see Maverick taking the Natural Order route. I saw elves resolve a Ruric Thar against Omni show and they Omni couldn't deal. Even though that isn't the worst matchup for us, it would be a good way to battle the meta. Progenitus for the fair matchups, Ruric Thar for the combo and Worldspine Wurm for the contol. If only we had a giant green monster that left dudes behind after they leave the battlefield.

Soooo....Thragtusk?