As Miracles and Omnitell are popular, 3 Pyrokinesis maindeck is awkward.Originally Posted by owerbart
I hear they got twisters miles wide in the Midwest.
If you have only Volcanics just splash in blue. I used swan song and flusterstorm in sb. This cards are good vs omni and miracles and other combos.
Blue sb
3 relics
3 swan song
3 fluster
3 magus if the moon
0-2 boartusk liege for engineered plague
1 tuktuk scrapper
The number of counterspells depens on the number of combo decks and miracles in you meta. Ss just own miracles.
Pyri in main depens on the number of fair decks in you meta.
Cut 1 sgc, 1 chieftain, 1 pyro.
My meta has become a tad bit more of a fair meta with tons of fow, that's why I wanted to try something different than my usual Reanimator. If I cut the Pyrokinesis to the SB, should I have at least one more Tarfire in the MD? About the Miracles matchup, isn't it already quite favorable for Goblins? Do you really need more sideboard cards?
Thanks for a highly informative tournament report! I look forward to watching the coverage as soon as I can. Your friend's list looks quite solid, and there are a few things I would like to hear your/his thoughts on.Thanks for the support guys
His decklist was as follows:
Maindeck
4 lackey
4 vial
3 tarfire
2 mogg war marshal
2 piledriver
1 stingscourger
4 warchief
1 chieftain
2 gempalm
2 rabblemaster
4 matron
4 ringleader
1 krenko
1 tuktuk scrapper
1 siegegang
1 sharpshooter
1 Prospector
4 mountain
1 plateau
6 r fetch
4 cavern
4 port
2 waste
1 tower of the magistrate
Sideboard
4 spirit of lab
3 rip
3 magus
3 pyrokin
1 jitte
1 wear/tear
As for coverage of the event, all the Videos titled: LEGACY- Eternal Weekend are of the event. I'm not sure why they're split into three parts for http://www.twitch.tv/sneakandshow/pr...ast_broadcasts
If you get to the semi-finals, Jimbo does the semi-finals and finals commentary, and he talks a bit about Goblins in between games.
I wouldn't change anything about the deck except for the Confusion in the Ranks. Red Blasts or Chalice of the Voids would've been much better against Omni and Combo in general. I really like the idea of Jitte, but without testing it's not clear whether it'll be a win more card or an excellent addition to the deck. Being able to go around Mother of Runes and Kor Firewalker, sounds really really good, and if they revoke our Jitte it means their Jitte isn't working either... a lot to like.
The manabase is pretty interesting. More ports than Wastelands, as well as Tower of the Magistrate. How has the mana base been working out? What's the reasoning?
Spirit of the Labyrinth over Ethersworn Canonist in the sideboard, why?
RIP over Relic in the board. Relic seems really good right now as the investment is really low (1 or 2 mana and maybe a card), making it very useful versus the DTT decks. Arguments for RIP?
Wear/Tear over the 2:nd Scrapper. Wear/Tear does have applications against one of the most commonly played decks; Omnitell. But that seems like a minor upgrade whereas the loss of the 2:nd Scrapper seems huge versus SFM decks.
How has Magus of the Moon been working out? How do you approach the card? Do you lean on it to try and steal games, or is it more of a generally strong cards in the matchups where you bring it in?
The list looks really interesting, and I will definitely review it during my next tuning/brewing session. Once again, I look forward to watching the coverage and hearing his thoughts on Goblins.
R/B Goblins
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I apologise in advance for the PHD thesis that you're all about to endure.
He (correctly IMO) reasoned that Wasteland would be bad against a lot of the decks to beat. Wasteland isn't really doing much against Omni-tell, Death and Taxes or Miracles is it? Ports on the other hand are always good, especially at keeping Miracles off of WW. Further, against the decks you want to wasteland, Magus usually just does the same thing. We didn't think there would be as much Rug Delver as there actually was, but it turned out to be a non-issue for both of us. The Tower of the Magistrate was what we call over here a "punt" - while it's theoretically good against DnT, it's not exactly a reliable way to beat them, although the cost of playing it is so low, why not give it a shot?
Spirit makes cantrips look really bad (very relevant against Omni), and it also provides a quicker clock than Ethersworn or Thalia. I was also a bit sceptical about it, but it looked pretty good in action. I saw him use it against Miracles to force a Terminus for just that one card, after having hit at least 3 times and forcing the Miracles player to waste a Brainstorm to literally just put 2 cards back. I don't necessarily agree with bringing in non-goblins against Miracles, but prima facie it was very good.
RIP just makes DTT permanently uncastable, and is also very good against the Goyf/Shaman/Delve/Snapcaster decks. I too prefer Relic, but that's more a personal preference towards the Green Splash. I personally believe that against those deck Magus should be the key strategy to beat them rather than Grave-hate, with the grave hate just being extra help. Being able to pop Relic in response to Decay, is always nice too and not opening up a dual-land to wasteland can also be relevant.
Yup, I agree with you on this point. As I said, I did advise him to play at least 2 Tutorable shatter-gobs in his 75, and I think that's something that can be tuned further.
One reason for this I think is just an "ignorance" of the format (I don't mean that in a bad way). He played Legacy and Goblins for a long time, up until the printing of True Name and Deathrite, which is when Goblins was really bad and the Tarfire tech hadn't really been adopted. From there he moved to playing Vintage, and only plays Legacy once in a blue moon. He is one hell of a Goblins player though, so I think that makes up for his lack of interest in the format on an ongoing basis.
A+ 10/10, I wish I started playing it earlier.
In terms of how to play it, it changes for each deck but it's definitely a combination of an "I win" card and a just being a very strong card.
It's most effective against the 12-post, Bug and Esper decks, so you want to get it in play as early as possible. Turn 2 off of a prospector and a Cavern is just game.
I also bring it in against UWR Delver, which is IMO our worst "fair" matchup by a country mile, but it's susceptible to being bolted or to being plowed off of a basic. In any case, it forces them to have it, but it is not game winning in the same way that it is against the Esper/Bug decks.
An important note: when you put it into play through Aether Vial, really make sure your opponent let's the Vial trigger resolve, rather than just tapping it, looking up at your opponent and then popping Magus into play as you would normally. Obviously if they're tapped out, you can go for broke, but it's possible that they can angle-shoot and say "I never let the trigger resolve, let me float some mana first." It happened against me, and I was absolutely livid, especially when the Judge allowed it.
It can goldfish insanely quickly and very reliably, and I think that was one of the best points about it as we expected a lot of Omni-tell. In reality only 8/63 people were playing it, but the idea was sound. It's also not so all in that it gives up too many points against fair decks like the Winstigator lists are. Again, it's worth reiterating how good he is at piloting Goblins and in playing Magic in general, which is relevant in a deck as hard to play as Goblins.
I think if I was going to a large tournament (e.g Gp Lille) I would probably build my decklist more towards his list than mine. For a small tournament in a shitty country (we had 63 players or something, and that was the largest Legacy event ever in Australia) where everyone just plays what they have or what they can borrow, I'd probably play the same list as I did, although I would want to squeeze in at least 1 Rabblemaster somewhere.
Is it just my imagination or is Earwig Squad really good right now?
All of the top decks seem to rely on only a few wincons in their maindecks. If you take out just 3 cards from any one of these decks their ability to win in a timely fashion is severely crippled.
Nope, it's not just your imagination. Many of the top tier decks utilize a lot of library manipulation, which leads to them having fewer action cards in total. Jester's Capping three equipments makes their Stoneforge Mystics pretty bad. Exiling their board wipes or Entreat the Angels makes their Dig Through Time much less impressive. Slaughter Games is one of the best sideboard cards against Omnitell if you can consistently cast it on time, and Earwig Squad is a tutorable Slaughter Games. I wouldn't play more than one, but I'm very happy with it as a one-of.
Also: went 2-1-1 yesterday. Should have been 3-1, but misplayed when I was stressed out and unfocused due to time concerns.
I beat Esper Stoneblade and Infect, losing to Canadian Threshold. Drew against Shardless BUG.
I tried a copy of Wear // Tear in the board and it overperformed all throughout the day. I was very impressed and will likely be packing two copies going forward. Still adapting to the current metagame and trying to figure things out, going to have a brewing/tuning session this evening. I will post my findings when I've come to more conclusions.
R/B Goblins
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Earwig is good but not really good enough to build a deck around (and given it's color and Prowl mechanic I would say you really have to build around it if you plan on exploiting it fully). It suffers from being really strong in a few matchups (Miracles, ANT) but really mediocre against the field in general. Most decks have more than enough redundancy to survive 3 Goyfs being stripped.
I haven't been playing lately, but I do think White is the strongest splash right now. Cannonist is really the best hate we can run against OmniTell and if we get it in play it makes WearTear better.
Even if the Jester's Cap effect doesn't cripple them, it's still a 5/3 body for 2B. That in itself is pretty good.
I don't really see any downside to building around Earwig. I feel like it's an underplayed card.
A 5/3 for 3 isn't amazing but it's good that it is reasonably sized in matchups where the Slaughter Games effect isn't useful.
You don't really have to 'build your deck around it' as all it requires is that
a) You have black mana and
b) You're attacking them with Goblins
I would probably agree with jrw that ESquad isn't the strongest argument for deciding on a splash colour but if you already are on black (because you think discard is good combo hate and Warren Weirding is good against TNN or whatever reason) then it's not difficult to add a copy into the main, and I think it's a good enough card that it should form part of the reason for B as a splash over other colours.
I don't think the new unblockable Goblin is worth discussing considering that Legion Loyalist and Goblin Tunneler are both viewed as unplayable or at least very fringe cards.
Against Omnitel, I would like just to play blast+therapy.
Team Blood, Beijing.
Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands
I've beaten omnitell by taking three of their show and tells and making them get lucky by cantripping into their last one. It's also good at taking all of stoneblade's equipment, good against death and taxes card advantage (usually equipment), taking 12-post's win conditions (emrakul/ ugins). You can take the NO/Craterhoofs in elves, etc. It just generally helps in combo matches where goblins are weak and give us a chance game 1 where we normally wouldn't have one, and it doesn't really hurt the consistency of the deck by adding it in as a 1-of. Given it's splash damage against the popular combo decks and control decks with limited win conditions, it is as good of a utility goblin as we can expect. In bad matchups such as highly redundant delvers, we simply cut it for good cards.
It is also quite good as a 5 power body which trades with the creatures other goblins can't normally go toe-to-toe with. I don't think earwig ever strips goyfs in any matchups unless we're desperate.
I think we all know how good E-Squad is, but to build your deck around it should be read as:
- multiple E-Squads in your deck,
- a resillient manabase to cast E-Squad consistently.
Being mana-heavy, on top of being off-colour, makes it more a one-off. Now, if WotC would decide to print a whole bunch of good Gobbo's in Black...
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I played a 5 ROunder today. 18 players. The List...
4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
2 SGC
1 Krenko
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Tuktuk
2 Gempalm
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Tarfire
2 Stingscourger
1 Sharpshooter
1 Mogg War Marshal
4 Waste
3 Port
1 Karakas
4 Cavern
3 Plateau
2 Mountain
5 Fetch
SB
4 Chalice
4 Ethersworn Cannonist
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear // Tear
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Rest In Peace
I cut MWM a bit from the main to make room for SGC #2 and Rabblemaster. Rabblemaster was never a card I wanted and Krenko could have been SGC #2, so really I should have played 3 MWM. There were multiple games where I wanted to draw them.
SB was good, but not perfect for the decks I faced. But hey, that's Magic without FoW, isn't it?
R1 Burn
G1 I lost the dice roll.
I kept a slow hand on a Mull to 6 with Wastes and Ports, but only 3 drops. He started beating me down with a Goblin Guide. When he played an Eidolon I was able to Pyro his board, but his Price of Progress made a huge impact on my ife total and he was able to burn me out.
G2 He was stuck on 1 land. I Pyro'd his Guide and Lavamancer this game. Then I just built up too much board and won.
G3 I had a slow hand but also Chalice on 1. He played Bolt-spells into the Chalice to pump his T1 Swiftspear and got a few points of damage through that way. Then he found the Smash to Smithereens and I died soon thereafter. MWM would have been pretty helpful here.
0-1
R2 Goblins
G1 I lost the dice roll.
My opponent was very new. It was his first tournament ever of any format, so he didn't really know what any of my or his cards did.
1-1
R3 Infect
G1 I lost the dice roll.
He opened on Glistener Elf, I on Lackey. He attacked, I traded. He played another Glistener Elf. I played a Vial. He attacked for 2 Poison thanks to a Pendelhaven. I played MWM. MWM chumped for three turns while Vial ticked up, then I Vialed in a Sharpshooter and cleaned up from there.
G2 was pretty incredible. He played out Heirarch, Pendelhaven, Inkmoth NExus, and Tropical Island. I attacked with a Lackey. He activated Inkmoth to block with and Pendelpump. Before blockers I Pyrokinesis his Inkmoth (3) and Heirarch (1). Then I cheat in SGC. He plays another Glitener Elf. I hardcast a Sharpshooter. He prepares to attack by Hyrdoblasting SCG. With Hydro on the stack I activate Sharpshooter targeting the elf. He Invigorates the Elf. In response I activate SGC, targeting the elf, and untapping sharpshooter. The elf dies a fiery death, and I took over the game.
R4 Lands
G1 I lost the dice roll.
He gets a punshing fire going and has plenty of time to assemble Stage+Depths.
G2 I have 2 Piledriver, 2 Warchief, 1 Vial, and 2 Wasteland and a Surgical Extraction. Surgical takes his Grove of the Burnwillows. His hand is all Maze of Iths. Wastes clear out the Mazes and I bought Hastey beats for a quick win.
G3 he assembles Stage+Depts on T2 thanks to two Mox Diamonds. Too quick for me! Lost that one.
R5, my last change for top 8
Belcher. My opponent and I talked before this round so we knew what each other were on.
G1 I lost the dice roll.
My opening hand had Sharpshooter and not much else. Keep! Opponent made 12 Goblins T1. I died.
G2 I had T1 Chalice @ 0. It didn't matter. He made a ridiculous amount of mana then played a bunch of 0cc artifacts into the Chalice just to build up storm, then played 14 Goblins. Well, thats that then.
Changes:
I'd put MWM back in. Other than that I liked the deck. I cannot in good conscience suggest putting Mindbreak Trap in, even though that's the only spell that could have saved me against Belcher. Belcher is the only deck I want that card against. You can't play Trap though because it's only OK against Tendrils storm decks, it isn't good at all against High TIde decks, it does nothing against ELves, and it's really really bad against Show and Tell. I really liked the removal component of the deck. Krenko and Rabblemaster were never searched for in a meaningful way.
Good tourney, good times. Some things that happened today make me want to look at Winstigator and Chieftain again.
Why 3 plateau? You need only 1-2. Because there are no wastelands in games where you sb canonist. And you play only 1 rip and 2 wear, so you need only 1-2 plateau. And you have a karakas.
Disagree with you about Trap.
Vs Tendrils trap not as good as you think because of discard.
Trap has won me some games vs High Tide and Omni Show.
Vs hightide. It has no discard, no removal for our clock and time spiral can help us to cast trap again. Hint: No need to wait wish to play trap.
Vs omni. No discard. Only up to 4 counterspells in second and third games. Can "counter" emrakul. I prefer to counter dig.
I don't think that's fair though... Neither of those goblins make an impact on turn 2. This new goblin would allow for an unblockable Lacky on T2 which is a clear step up from the goblins you mentioned.
http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-conte...ns-Spoiler.png
Ok, so this thing is better than goblin tunneler because he has an impact as soon as he enters the battlefield, and better than goblin shortcutter because, since we are playing creatures like lackey and piledriver, is better to make one of our creatures unblockable than to make an opponent's creature unable to block.
This doesn't mean he is good, because probably any removal spell is better than cards of this kind .... it is generally just better killing blockers than getting cute with unblockable effects.
It's a narrow card for an effect that doesn't auto win, is as leo-cop said worse than Tarfire, and that doesn't really achieve anything during the mid-late game.
So why are we talking about this card again?
Wut?? It's a 2 drop goblin that is great early game with lackey or late game with piledruver. Did I mention he's a 2 drop goblin? He will compete with tarfire and mogg war Marshall for the cheap seats and possibly still lose...but dismissing him before he is legal is short sighted.
You are wrong on several points
1. This effect DOES have the potential to win games right on the spot. Connecting early lackeys or Winstigators does win games, so does an unblocked Piledriver. This card has more potential to Autowin games than any other removal spell you are comparing it to.
2. In mid and lategame it still provides a 2/1 body for only 2 mana. That's exactly the same reason why people like tin street Hooligan netter than Tuktuk Scrapper in the absence of equipments. Also huge Piledrivers win games even beyond turn 3.
3. This card is not a removal spell and does not compete with other removal spells as it's effect is different. You should compare it to TSH, Tuktuk Scrapper, Stingscourger, Goblin Settler and the like. Whenever we pick up one of these as a 1-off for the MD we must ask ourselves whether Subterrean Scout is more likely to be relevant in your meta.
We are discussing this card because some people actually accept the idea that the decklist they are wielding is not optimal and van ne improved with (cmc=2) cards they havnt tested yet .
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
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