I recently built and have been testing this deck. I took it to a 4 round cut to top 8 tournement, and I didn't drop a round. I'll give you the original list, and what I changed it to.
4 Dark Confidant - Card Advantage
4 Dimir Cutpurse - Sustainted Card Advantage with Discard (yes, I tried SMI here, I hated him)
4 Withered Wretch - This guy was part of why I made the deck
4 Black Knight - Great against deadguy, good in goblin matchups, good against u/w/g thresh
4 Aether Vial - Even with the low amount of creatures, it's almost more there to sneak around counterspells. It was how I crushed thresh and landstill in matchups. Not to mention that I can cast all the discard and still drop creatures.
4 Duress - 2nd best counterspell to FOW in the format
4 Hymn to Tourach - Duh
4 Smother - Needed to be Diabolic Edict
3 Cabal Therapy - More about shredding hands apart
3 Umazawa's Jitte - Great all around, espeically with free men dropping off the vial
1 Funeral Charm - it was great that day, but the same reason it was good that day, are why wastelands are in now.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
Sideboard:
3 Terror
3 Perish
3 Engineered Plague
3 Pithing Needle
3 Back to Basics
After the tournement, I decided a couple small changes needed to happen. Most Important was getting another land in to the mana base. Too often I sat with 1 land, and nothing else. So, I made the following changes
-1 Jitte
+1 Swamp
After more testing, the real weakness ended up showing up to be agianst mishra's factory, so the current list changed, also, Edicts came in over smother, so the list is like this...
4 Dark Confidant
4 Dimir Cutpurse
4 Withered Wretch
4 Black Knight
4 Aether Vial
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Diabolic Edict
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Umazawa's Jitte
2 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
8 Swamp
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Tainted Isle
1 Island
Sideboard:
3 Terror
3 Perish
3 Engineered Plague
3 Pithing Needle
3 Back to Basics
The deck plays really solid. It's matchup with threshold is a dream. Main deck wretch with sideboard back to basics and perish gives you infy card advantage
Against Kowal's Life of the Loam deck, wretch was again the all star.
Last edited by Vincent; 09-07-2006 at 01:28 PM. Reason: Adding Commentary
When posting a deck you need to provide a card analysis along with a quick write up on how the deck performs and how we should be playing with it. Write about the matchups and what advantages it has against some of the tier one decks.
You should also be posting this in the New and Developmental forum, regardless of a single top 8 showing.
Aside from that, I think you should focus on a mono black build, since Cutpurse alone is absolutely not worth splashing blue.
Also consider adding more creatures or dropping vial since 16 isnt enough to make it worth while.
Welcome to the source.
Now playing real formats.
Pyroclasm > your deck.
In all seriousness, Pyroclasm ruins you. You need to really commit to the board to present a clock, and when you do, Pyroclasm just halts your tempo dead in its tracks. Consider Shadowmage Infiltrator to take you through Pyroclasm and into the long game.
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Referring to the art on Stasis:
Consider the fact that this deck shreds your hand to pieces, removes the crappy, cheap beaters you manage to drop before your hand is gone, and then outdraws the shit out of you with D.C. and Cutpurse. Are you guys really that shortsighted? As an aside, I'd love to have seen you add white into the mix for Meddling Mage and STP. But, then you'd have been reading my friggin mind and I'd be pretty freaked out.
When other people do not assert themselves, they may still have something to be proud of, something that they believe is unrivalled, but it is just that they have not got the same vulgarity of throwing their weight about and imposing themselves and their beliefs on other people. - Dunduzu Kalui Chisiza
If you think a topic is dumb, don't add to it. Pretty simple. - Bardo
In the creation of solution decks you need to realize that legacy unlike vintage is still mostly creature dominant. only about 1/3 of the decks played these days win without any kind of creature help. in building your deck you should know how to get around all the removal, (pyroclasm, STP, etc...) , and if you play stuff like hyppie/cutpurse/infiltrator, how will they work for you in all your situation against the other 2/3 of the format. the solution deck in vintage was made for a meta that consisted of control and combo almost exclusively, with the only creature getting solid amounts of play in the early game being a little 1/1 goblin that could get run over by your 2/2 cutpurse etc... it's a solid idea though. I like x4 W.Wretch mainboard since this format's decks for the most part are very reliant on the grave. I'd personally take out x4 cutpurse for another something else. Jitte really helps though, and i'm enjoying all the disruption vs. combo/control matchups right now. -peace, j.j.
Team J3W: because christianity just wasn't enough.
Friggorid
Solidarity
Goblins
Threshold
Serendib Efreet!
No, seriously, if you run blue, you run 4 Force of Will and 4 Brainstorm. Cutpurse is not hot without Erayo by his side.
I like the Edicts main.
Donovan who? Mike Donovan?
Pyroclasm ruins the deck if the player is dense enough to run all thier guys out there. The point of any competitive deck, is you need to be good to play it.
As far as the white mana goes, there is way too much double black in the deck, and I don't want to be wastelandable. Besides, I bring in Back to Basics against the format.
I tried Serendib Efreet, and it sucked. Seriously... The men I choose for the deck are all there with a specific purpose. Also, just because you run blue doesn't mean you run force and brainstorm. Don't get locked in to conventional knowledge. If Roland did that, he wouldn't have won Worlds. I'm more about card advantage, and force isn't that... Duress is almost as good a counterspell as FOW. And blue isn't there JUST for cutpurse, it's there for the sideboard Back to Basics
Wretch > Threshold, Iggy Pop, Landstill
Dark Confidant = Well, this is obvious, but card advantage
Dimir Cutpurse = When I built the deck, I started with Duress, Hymn, and Bob... I started thinking about other ways to stay up in card advantage. I thought about hyppie, but I have so much hand destruction, I want something that would both keep me up, but keep them down. So far, he's working out like a champ.
Black Knight = Alright, so, this I'm surprised worked out like a champ. He was the last addition to the deck. And I really must say, my favorite addition to the deck. Against U/W/G Thresh, one in play and a vial set at two makes them unable to attack for fear of a second knight. Also, aganst goblins, this guy has first striked out piledriver plenty of times.
And to the last comment. I don't know how you can look at the build and think I wasn't concerned about creature decks. With the edicts, a first stiker, jittes, with terrors and plauges in the board. Trust me, it's been more than enough. And look at our recent top 8 at worlds...
Madness Aggro-Control
Salvager Game Combo
Goblins Aggro
Landstill Control
2 Iggy Pop Combo
Thunderbluff Aggro-Control (loses badly to withered wretch)
Threshold Aggro Control
Alright, so, there is one pure aggro list in that mix. In the Aggro Control matchups, if you take away thier control element, they are vulnerable. Also, every single matchup in that top 8 has a serious problem with a back to basics in play minus the threshold that operates on very few lands period.
I didn't ignore the fact that it's an aggro format, but outside of goblins, every other aggro in the format is some sort of aggro control. This wasn't ignored during contruction.
John Donovan Aka. The Donovan Solution
GWS
Last edited by Vincent; 09-07-2006 at 01:32 PM.
Well, Pyroclasm is recoverable, chalice + pithing is not. Fairy Stompy is going to romp all over you imho. Serendib is not actually a horrible suggestion for the deck, as it flyes over opposing creatures, and the damage isn't that much of an issue given your clock. With fetches, Brainstorm = teh good, as it provides card advantage (yes, it's advantage, just ask anyone playing it, lands do not in fact count as cards :-P)
Seeing as I am a type 1 player who plays control slaver, I know how good Brainstorm is... But I need EVERYONE looking at this deck, to realize that it is NOT a blue deck... it's a mono black deck with blue just in for two cards.
Farie Stompy may be a tough matchup, but honestly, that deck is a non factor in my meta game. Everytime it's showed up, it's gotten crushed. As I figured out when i tested it, I felt it was a pile, and after testing it more, well, it infact is a pile. There's a reason farie stompy didn't show up in the top 8 at worlds... the deck is bad.
I have tested serendib, but don't like him in the deck. If I was running mana acceleration, I'd play him, but seeing as he only attacks, and nothing else, I don't want to invest in him. I'd rather invest 3 mana in a creature that helps me maintain control over the game.
Needle is bad, but not a game winner. Chalice is bad, but again, not a game winner... if both are in play, i've got problems, but with just one or the other, I am fine... chalice at 2 doesn't shut off AEther vial... needle on vial doesn't stop me from casting spells... yes, both together are bad, but this is why i run hand disruption.
Donovan
I ran something similar to this, only with Stifle, Sinkhole, and 4 Wastelands to add an LD element to the discard-since Stifle counters Fetches, and everyone runs fetches.
a good suggestion, but again, I'm keeping this as close to mono black as possible
We always get a good amount of Vintage players here looking to extend there eternal play to Legacy. Pinder makes a good point in that the 'solution' thing just isnt a prevailant win scheme. You should open up to some suggestions your getting, most of them are good. The Source is the best place to get feedback on a 1.5 deck. Trust us we've been here since the beginning.
My biggest piece of advice is add a good 3-4 more creatures. You really want to make use of those vials.
Now playing real formats.
I don't normally test aggro decks, but having met and played with Donovan at C.O.D. a bit, I picked up this deck and have been really impressed (which is saying something because I haven't piloted a non-combo, non-prison deck in Legacy for over a year). Black Knight is by far one of the best creatures, to the point that I was thinking of squeezing him into something like B/w Confidant.
In fact the only concern I've had is that Cabal Therapy has been less than stellar due to all of the creatures I get needing to stay in play against Affinity and Goblins (Affinity being the only other true aggro deck, and one that shows up in Michigan a lot). I was looking for a way to fix this, but I don't see one. You can flashback Therapies once Bob is online and drawing you extra men, but it seems that by that time Therapy is less than optimal. Relying soley on the strength of Duress + Therapy seems weak.
P.S. Donovan, so you finally dropped Rifter?
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I'm not quite a Legacy virgin. I've been playing legacy since Workshops and Bazaars were legal. My comment about me being a type 1 control slaver player was me trying to say I do in fact know how good Brainstorm is.
That bein said... bane, I think your suggestion of 3 - 4 more men is the best i've heard, and it's exactly what I've been thinking. My only problem is, where to cut... I will play around with some different builds. AndI'll even try Serendib in those slots. I'm not discounting the advice... But my feeling has always been that brainstorm belongs more in blue based control or blue based aggro control. My initial build had both brainstorm and FOW.
And yes Brandon... I gave up on rifter when I realised how weak it was going to be in a more combo heavy format. After I started going 2-2, I knew it was time to scrap it, as I tried 5 or 6 diffrent builds, and I moved on. I tried to revamp Angel Stompy, but i've lost faith in that deck, even though it brought me to 22nd and one win away from top 8 at the Legacy Champs in 05'. I decided I wanted to play something with Duress, Hymn, and Bob. And this deck was born
Ummm Deadguy anyone? But really, what does this deck do that Deadguy doesnt do better? StP > Edict. The fact that your running blue just for cutpurse and SIDEBOARD back to basics seems just silly. If you want to trump nonbasics, do it with more Wastelands. That way you can actually keep this mono black.
Team Solo
A suggestion if I may...
Run 3 Stifles!
Reasons:
1. It kills a land in almost any deck.
2. It stops a Gempalm from killing your Black Knight.
3. It stops Piledriver from getting bigger for one turn.
4. If you don't get hand disruption it's another answer to many combo decks.
5. It stops a Deed or Disk from wiping the board.
I don't think I really like Tainted Isle here though. I think I'd rather see Watery Grave in my opening hand. Seeing Wasteland, Isle is not so hot in this deck.
As far as the sideboard goes, I think Smother or Chainer's Edict would be a better choice than terror. Vial seems like a good way to pump out creatures, right? I'd almost ask, with 2 draw engines and a massive discard outlet, would Tog be worth it in sideboard?
And GAT is right. Deadguy performs this better by complimenting the discard with 8(12)if you count vindicate, which is really your edict spot, therapy is your STP slot imho) LD cards. So, Stifle can act as LD, a counterspell, and even stop other Vials. It says 'NO' to Iggy Pop. Just a suggestion.
Last edited by laststepdown; 09-09-2006 at 07:48 PM.
Why is Water Grave better than tainted isle at all?! Almost every land in the deck is a swamp. And Tainted Isle isn't me losing 2 life, which is way too precious in any deck running Dark Confidant. At NO time have i EVER wanted watery grave over tainted isle
Terror gets auriok salvagers, terror gets exalted angel, terror gets any goblin... the only aggro deck it's bad against is b/w confidant, which loses to e-plague and edicts...
And so far, in every way, this deck has ou performed deadguy in every event it's been in. After 5 tournements, the deck is 4-0-1, 4-1, 3-1, 4-0, 3-0-1.
18 - 2 - 2 Is a pretty good statement. I've played agianst savager game, landstill, Kowal's weird life of the loam thing (wow does this deck crush that deck), goblins, angel stompy, deadguy. My loses were Landstill against Jason Mayes as in, 8th at legacy worlds, and goblins with turn 1 lackey, turn 2 bolt my blocker both games.
Back to Basics has been more than worth the blue. This one single card has made all the difference in the world. I'm almost thinking about fitting the 4th in the board.
Tomorrow night, i'm going to test serendibs. I'll post results.
Just a quick question...why did you choose cutpurse over shadowmage infiltrator?
Even though cutpurse can potentially be more devastating, the infiltrator doesn't die as easily and has evasion (also making him pretty sick w/ jitte).
Just a thought.
I'm guessing for the same reason Sullivan Solution doesn't run Shadomage Infiltrator-it is an Ophidian that deals 1 damage, that will get blocked if able, while Dimir Cutpurse is a Hypnotic Specter and Ninja of Deep Hours rolled into 1. You get a virtual 2 card advantage from him hitting-about equivilant to a SoFI killing a creature every turn. As for being removed, the 2 main removal spells in the format(Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares) kill both of them. Hopefully, you've already Duressed, Therapied and Hymned them to a dead hand before you cast it.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote