I of course don't mulligan to Magus of the Moon against infect. The fact that I have blow out cards like Magus of the Moon and Sudden Demise against Infect means that a lot more hands are keepable than before. So after board I have 6 cards that are fantastic against them and I still have swords to plowshares, thalia, jitte etc.
So the likelihood that I get a draw that gives me a great chance of winning is much higher than with mono white or Wg where there's a lot of mediocre cards.
I have a question regarding WR version. I was thinking of trying that red splash version and I'm wondering if it's still playable or at least worth without Imperial Recruiters. I know it's a good card and deck will probably be less consistent but I don't have and really can't afford them. Thanks in advance for any kind of answers.
I know nobody gives two squirts about my opinion but I figured I would throw it in anyway. I have been playing D&T for about two years now with reasonable success, yesterday at the Baltimore Super IQ I tried the red splash for the first time....... Holy shit! I had a blast and it felt as though my bad matchups were not much of a worry anymore. I destroyed infect twice (both Magus and Sudden Demise did major work), I took down lands in a really grindy match, and continued to generally beat faces. I lost one match (Miracles.... loss later revenged against the same guy) and also lost in the finals due to bad keeps, poor draws, and even worse play (long day). I cannot recommend the red splash enough, it felt ultra powerful and crazy fun. Thanks to Bahra for being innovative. Let me know if you have any questions, I would write a tourney report but that sounds like work.
Congrats!Originally Posted by c2232
I really like your Mystic Crusader tech
We care about your opinion.
Report plz.
Was it actually a Mystic Crusader and not just a typo of Mirran Crusader?
Yeah that would be sweet, it was actually a mirran crusader though :)
Gratz on the result. I would love to read a report.
Quick down and dirty
Rd1: -vs- a black/green hexmage +reanimator deck
game 1 he made a misplay that helped me win. Game 2 he turn 1ed iona…… that’s difficult. Game 3 he thoughtsiezed me 3 time getting a surgical extraction and 2 flickerwisps and the did the depths thespian combo for his 20/20…… I topdecked one of two remaining flickerwisp….. I actually felt pretty bad about that.
Rd2: -vs- infect
He got me game 1 with stuff on stuff with some stuff. Game 2 magus of the moon blew him out. Game 3 sudden demise on his glistner elf, next turn magus of the moon finished the job.
Rd3: -vs- infect
Game 1 he attempted become immense on his blue infect dude but I had flickerwisp then magus. Game 2 sudden demise on his 2 nobles and glistner elf (he saved the elf with a pump spell) next turn magus of the moon finished the job.
Rd4: -vs- lands
Game 1 I got the magus in and equipped it with SOFI, he scooped. Game 2 was really grindy with him knowing I had the magus and me knowing he had the punishing fire, there was a lot of small damage here and there but eventually he busted crop rotation into the 20/20 and killed me. Game 3 was about the same as game two with him coming one mana short of pulling it out….. basically he activated thespians stage to copy dark depths and I vialed in magus, turns out everything still happens as usual except he doesnt get the 20/20 until he kills the magus, he was 1 mana short of gamble + punishing fire.
Rd5: -vs- black/white stoneforge, bob, lingering souls thing
This match was kind of a blow out in my favor, I have played this guy before and it usually get pretty grindy but this time jitte threw down game 1 and manriki was dominant game 2
Rd6: -vs- miracles
I really cant remember much about this match, it was really super crazy grindy…. He had top a bunch of times which tilts me super hard because it add so much time to everything……………….. #bantop. I got the 2nd game but he had top balance thing the other two games along with counter for my early vial attempts.
Rd7: r/w/u controlish stoneforge non-delver
Game one I got a magus out while he had nothing but tundras, that really surprised him…. he bolted it, that really surprised me, I ended up getting there with thalia and SOFI. Game 2 double vial thaila and some porting/wasting slowed him and I was able two apply small beats for awhile, he was forced to verdict, I vialed in recruiter for stoneforge and vialed in stoneforge EOT SOFI & Jitte carried home.
Rd8: ID
QF: -vs- Miracles……. Same guy that beat me round 6
Unfortunately I don’t remember much about this again, top makes my brain shut off #bantop. i got there game 2 and in game 3 triple vial got crazy.
SF: -vs- dredge
Ummmm yeah luck….. game 1 he mulled to 4 and still made a close game out of it. Game 2 I got mirran crusader with jitte….. cant stop wont stop.
F: -vs- BUG
We don’t talk about this, easily the most embarrassing match I have ever played. I kept aweful hands that did nothing, drew into garbage, and made multiple mistakes.
Once again I cannot recommend the red splash enough, when magus did flat out win games for me he caused my opponent to play super conservative to get around it. As you can see I have a few different choices, let me explain.
No cavern of souls – forgot it at home
No fiend hunter – I didn’t think it would be good and I thought I would have a problem with double white…. I am an idiot and will be adding him, the double white was never a problem
Main deck relic warder – this has been amazing for me for the past 6 months or so, the stoneblade decks work so hard for that equipment and this dude is a huge blow out, it had rarely been bad.
Main deck aven mindcensor – hard to let go, I am a fucking assassin with this card.
Batterskull in the side – I moved it there about 6 months ago and have never missed it.
Surgical extraction in the side – realy good against loam and punishing fire (these two have given me a lot of problems in the past) also quality against some combo like storm and obviously dredge.
Very interested in your batterskull-as-sb and leonin main. Did you feel more punished or rewarded over the course of the tournament by those choices?
I have loved both choices for a long time, i have been running that setup for about 6 months now and have never regretted it.
Another question for you, bahra and any other w/r player - do we feel like the 3 magus 2 recruiter split is pretty locked in as optimal? I've been playing 2/2 but often feel like I want 2 magus 3 recruiters rather than the opposite. Magus does have its 'I'm a grey ogre' g1s, whereas recruiter is at worst, slow, and when you need it to be a magus, it's a magus.
i like the current split but i could see changing it, i have to play it a bit more but i am really interested in exploring a more tutorish type of style.
Hello c2232,
You think the imperial recruiter is 100% necessary? Because i haven't got recruiters and i don't want to spend that money.
Thank you and Congrats!
I would say that Imperial Recruiter is the most important part of the splash by now, but actually just all the pieces we splash for are super powerful. And Imperial Recruiter was just what the splash was missing. I would only play the red splash for fun if not for the Imperial Recruiters which makes it a powerful alternative to mono white.
Just gonna add that I've played 3 dailies now with the green splash and I am not impressed. I've gone a combined 3-5 with the dek cand I keep losing to the match ups that the red splash fixes or makes even, namely Elves and Infect.
I agree that the recruiters are really good, i think you could run without them though if you really wanted to though i think just straight mono white is probably better than a splash for magus.
Please, tell me about this green splash
@C2232
Congrats!
What would you replace for Fiend Hunter?
i think i am going to toy around with the mindcensor, relicwarder, and 1 flickerwisp. the fiend hunter is probably great, i thought about it multiple time while holding a recruiter and needing to deal with a creature. i also kinda want to try the new 3cmc thalia, i doubt its very good but who knows.
Goes back to what I said a few days ago about build performance with respect to tourney size, pilot familiarity, etc. I wonder about the variety of decks and variety of opponents that you're likely to find, and the effects of 3-4 round tournaments on perceptions of deck performance.
If you've played 8 rounds and faced Elves and Infect more than once each, that says "skewed meta" to me, at least based on my understanding of a North American paper Magic meta or even global (i.e. GP-scale) meta. If Lille or Seattle are 50+% Elves+Infect, something's weird with Legacy.
8 rounds in an apparently skewed meta is an EXTREMELY small sample size upon which to base conclusions for performance in a larger context.
You've obviously more experience with the Red splash than the Green. Your results still make a valid data point, but it would be nice to hear from some more experienced Green splash players.
You're also a well-known proponent of the Red splash, which may affect the results. I'm not saying you're trying to sabotage your experiences with Green, but confirmation bias works in subtle ways. (Thoughts like "This can't possibly be as good as Red, can it?" can be a self-fulfilling prophecy.)
The only conclusions I can draw are:
1) The red splash has been quite effective in MTGO dailies. Conversely, if MTGO dailies are overrun with creature-based combo (that's what I'm calling Elves and Infect), green is likely the worse choice there.
2) Mono-white still has had the best track record in large paper magic events (say 8+ swiss rounds).
I'm not saying Red's bad or Green's better. But jumping to conclusions doesn't help advance the deck.
2c
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
Until more people are playing the red splash in large tournaments, the fact that mono-white continues to perform better is not very meaningful. Most people don't just have imperial recruiters sitting around at home and will be hesitant to spend that much money on something they're not sure about - this will likely limit the # of people testing this build for a long time.
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