I just don't see how that can be so difficult. I mean, most of the people on this site could have handled the task of taking a walk around the top 30-50 tables or so, identifying the unusual choices that most of us really want to see on camera, and getting those folks to the feature match area. As matters stand, I have spent the better part of a workday poking around the internet for some video coverage of the Aggro Loam decks that put a pair of people in the top 8. Certainly that's a remarkable event and these decks should be given some more attention. I can't imagine any serious Legacy player looking at this top 8 and not wishing to see the Loam decks in action, wiping the floor with one of our beloved DTT monstrosities.
I suppose I'm just complaining about the coverage and not contributing to the Aggro Loam deck discussion though, so I'll pipe down. I was surprised by the actual lists that the players were running, but I supopose the answer to the question "Why didn't they play X?" where X is a double mana cost spell like Devastating Dreams or something like Burning Wish is Liliana of the Veil. How she can be so good in a meta that seemed filled with those "army in a box" critters and DTTs is a mystery to me. Gee, wouldn't it be nice to have some video footage of expert players piloting the deck to a GP top 8?
From what me and niklas could gather, there were 6 4Color Loam lists in the field, probably 1 or 2 slipped through us. 3 of us scrubbed out pretty early but the ones who get it rolling, finished with high standings. It was a good event for the deck, a flush of fresh air to the legacy meta.
IMO the Omni matchups is harsh as hell and the burn matchup is very tricky also. the other combos are more easily hated out.
The miracle mentor matchup is very tricky. They attack through a different angle so we should expect some sulfur elementals in the sideboard soon. From what I could see the Thalias are awesome in a variety of matchups.
The single most dificult thing I can point out while playing this deck is deciding what is a keepable hand.
And if you ever go to an event where Niklas is in, go talk to him! He loves the deck and is a super friendly guy.
Any questions about the event feel free to ask
What was your record? What did you play against?Originally Posted by Pilhas
I creeped on Niklas during one of his matches at GPNJ but didn't try talking to him.
An awful 3-3... And I had 2 byes
Played against Grixis control, missplayed g1 and I went on a tilt. Kept an awful hand g2.
R2 was against Merfolk, won easily but he was not a good player by a mile.
Still on tilt for R3 where I faced d&t. much like the 1st game of the day, I played reaaly good and then missplayed just before stabilization. Kept an awful hand g2.
R4 was against Omni where he natural s&t 3rd turn into omni->emrakul(no other cards played by him) and G2 he brainstorms 1st turn and combo 2nd turn.
Besides the omni matchup it was entirely my bad..... Can't go on tilt after a missplay
Still was a great event since both my friends ended up in 21(Miracles)/55(Elves) and loam had a great performance.
Did you play loam? Next time chat a bit, learned a lot, he explained some sideboard options perfectly.
Wanted to just pipe in and say yes, the coverage was a sham. And I am confused as hell as to why Lilli is good in this meta as well, though I guess if you are using spot removal to take out YP's then her ability becomes good. How she fairs against DTT though... well then, someone explain!
Also, gratz to the archetype. Keep tuning your list guys, apparently you can beat blue.
"Lili isn't bad at all. There are decks that you don't necessarily want to see her against, but that has always been true. They're just given different names now and again. On the whole, she's an absolute powerhouse against a vast majority of decks. Yes, she's lackluster against U/R Delver, but even there she's not a dead card. Just not as good as Golgari Charm and whatever else."
That's what I responded with half a year ago, and it still fits pretty well now. The Young Pyromancer problem has been around for ages, and it's still only featured in a single tier 1.5 deck. Yes, she's less than awesome against Young Pyromancer specifically, but that just means you have to board a/some copies out post-board.
"Dig Through Time exists" isn't a very relevant problem either. With regards to Liliana, I'm actually pleased as shit that Dig Through Time exists. When it comes to incessantly complaining about Dig Through Time (not necessarily poking fun at you), people always seem to think that it just sort of gets added to the deck. Like the 60 card pile is secretly 62 or 63 cards. But the truth is that it's still 60 cards. And rather than play less cantrips in order to fit in what could be seen as the really big cantrip, people are actually replacing the utility and sometimes even the meat of their decks with Dig Through Time. I haven't had to sit across from a Council's Judgment in fukken ages, and it feels great.
Make no mistake, Liliana is still Empress.
Liliana is a freaking empress. If you don't have her you are cold to a TNN. Only option is to race and sometimes you cannot handle it
Trust me buddy, I want DTT to stick around. It powers up my pet-deck. Nothing gets between a man and hit pet deck. What did you guys think of Ethersworn vs Thalia in the sb's btw? If you are siding out PFires, then Ethersworns seem so much stronger at fighting combo decks.
They both do a pretty great job against all of the decks that they overlap, but I think Ethersworn Canonist being a relevant hatebear against Elves puts it over the top for me. I don't really care about any of the match-ups that Thalia has game against. Like Reanimator and such.
I wish that wasn't the case though. Because I do really like Thalia as a card.
According to niklas, the thalias serve more purpose in more MU.
Omni: you usually don't cast Canonist and wait for the s&t/you want to actually cast Thalia while using the sage for that purpose.
Miracles: Thalias are effective here while canonist are not.
Delver: You want to take out the GSZ because of the dazes/pierces, so you bring the thalias to delay their tempo.
IMO I believe we can't drop Canonists right now, but I imagine having a 2T/1C split or somehow a 2/2 split in there. There is also the possible rise of the Mentor which will make us get a sulfur elemental in there
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schniggaz"
Wait for it...
This was just an amazing weekend!
It was nice meeting Pilhas, unfortunately he didn't finish that well. And Seraphix you should have talked to me :(
My total record was 10-3-1 and I.D. in the last round to lock the Top 64. My roommate Christoph Alsheimer and me played the exact 75.
We managed to defeat three Burn decks!!! That is enough to justify Thalia :D In all the Combo Matchups Thalia and Canonist are both really good, but Thalia plays a bit better with Wasteland against Storm. Paying three mana for their Abrupt Decay will probably not work.
And as Pilhas already mentioned, you can also bring it in against Miracles and Tempo. But I have to admit, that he is worse when we start playing Sulfur Elemental.
If I am about to play a tournament tomorrow I would play the exact 60 cards maindeck again and play the following SB:
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Thoughtseize
2 Slaughter Games
2 Golgari Charm
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Choke
1 Engineered Plague
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ethersworn Canonist
edit:
I had three feature matches, but only one was on camera, Round 5 against EsperBlade. I also had a deck tech with Matej Zatlkaj, but did not find it online until now.
Also Gerry Thompson wrote something about the deck on SCG. "Mostly forgotten archetype" argh!
Called it :D
BTW guys, I am having a tournament in a couple of weeks, but the field there is usually midrange(lots of modern players) so I know the meta will be a lot of nic fit/jund and so on....
Should I just pick up storm or you believe the deck can make it?
Wtf? There is never a reason to play a different deck!
I would play the DD Combo in this meta. You can also cut a few sideboard cards against combo and play a Maelstrom Pulse, Garruk Relentless, Ajani Vengeant or something like that.
Thank god I didn't ask in the GP or you would have smacked me in the head
Gonna tune it then.. maybe a couple of kill spells like murderous cut will not hurt either
Bears.dec would like to disagree, but yeah. I don't see any problem with continuing to jam Loam.
It happens mate, even the best of us mess up tournaments sometimes. I played Maverick at GPNJ but I already knew about Niklas's deck (I actually bought a bunch of the cards for it there.An awful 3-3... And I had 2 byes
Played against Grixis control, missplayed g1 and I went on a tilt. Kept an awful hand g2.
R2 was against Merfolk, won easily but he was not a good player by a mile.
Still on tilt for R3 where I faced d&t. much like the 1st game of the day, I played reaaly good and then missplayed just before stabilization. Kept an awful hand g2.
R4 was against Omni where he natural s&t 3rd turn into omni->emrakul(no other cards played by him
Besides the omni matchup it was entirely my bad..... Can't go on tilt after a missplay
Still was a great event since both my friends ended up in 21(Miracles)/55(Elves) and loam had a great performance.
Did you play loam? Next time chat a bit, learned a lot, he explained some sideboard options perfectly.
I think I'm going to stick with Canonist right now, but I definitely see the merits of Thalia. Does anyone think its worth bringing Canonist in against the fair Dig decks? I've been trying that out when I play Maverick and it seems ok (obviously different matchup dynamics though).
Holy sh*t three burn decks???
If I ever see you at a tournament again I'll definitely say hi! Also, I think I have a crush on Christoph, he is like, absurdly handsome.
I've played this deck casually a few times and my biggest issue has been deciding whether I should dredge Loam or not. Any insight into that would be great. Also, has anyone tried running a Volrath's Stronghold?
It's easy to get caught up in the frenzy of "I have Loam, therefore I dredge", but the truth is that you should only dredge sparingly. Only dredge when you actually need to dredge. Wastelocking someone out of the game is great, but do you have more than one Wasteland and/or can you actually achieve the lock or would the attempt just slow them down a little bit as they sit back on basics and uncracked fetches? Would dredging Loam to get back cycle lands be cost effective card advantage or would you just be spending a whole turn effectively flipping three more cards into your graveyard? If you want Punishing Fire, what are the odds of dredging for it and are there other options?
The closest you should ever get to snap dredging Loam is if you need to hit a land drop, and even then you shouldn't actually dredge on cruise control. Just really think through your dredges and you'll be fine.
As far as Volrath's Stronghold, it's not really a bad card, but the deck is already running somewhat short on colored sources and available utility, so what amounts to a three mana land drop that only serves to insure some topdeck consistency just doesn't really make the cut.
Anyone run the burning wish model lately? I ran it at a local a couple months ago and it felt awesome. Even beat Bryant Cook on storm in one of my rounds. Washboard seemed great and having 7 copies of Loam maindeck is nice. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Today I am become death. The destroyer of worlds. -Oppenheimer
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