Brainstorm
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Counterbalance
Sensei's Divining Top
Tarmogoyf
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Goblin Lackey
Standstill
Natural Order
Welcome to the Modern banned list.Originally Posted by Anarky87
I don't think you guys give Wizards enough credit for caring about the format, but the problem is that people don't want to play MTGO.
They've released 4 Masters Editions, a Vintage Masters, Tempest Remastered, as well as every set from Mirage forward on MTGO, bypassing any Reserved List issue. Duals on MTGO are $2-20 apiece; and there are barely any cards that cost over $100 (Black Lotus, Rishadan Port, and Misdirection I think?): The most powerful card printed and the two best rares from the very first MTGO release, when they had the shortest supply (same reason Beta is so expensive).
You can build almost any Legacy deck on MTGO for less than a grand, which is great, but you lose out on all the fun and interaction of playing with real people. And while the relative cost is cheaper, who wants to rebuy their whole collection? Not to mention the weak interface, and their stupid insistence on a Windows-only platform.
I personally enjoy it, but I totally understand why anyone would avoid it. I do think they are trying to correct the damage they've done with the Reserved List, but unfortunately, the solution they've offered is not one the majority of players actually want.
I think you hit the nail on the head. No one wants to buy over the cards they own already. I know it would be hard for me to talk my wife into letting me spend MORE money on this game on cards I already own. That's a tough pill to swallow for many.
Interface issues aside, I am happy to give Wizards credit for making shit cheaper online (I am told Daze is cheep) but really, you want the client used make it work. Also online is not their only retail outlet, they get no credit offline and that's where most people play.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Ya, most of the blue based decks an be built for like $650-700 or less, but for most people that is still to expensive unless they build over time which is risky as any meta change could trash you previous purchases. Several non-blue decks (D&T and Lands) need Port and Waste bringing their costs up too what $900 just for those 2 playsets. When a std Std costs what $200, and you can draft to acquire some of the cards (which allot of players enjoy) and Pauper decks are normally $40 or less there is less incentive to build Legacy.
Vintage decks not being that much more then Legacy (compared to paper) probably hurts Legacy as well, as you can build towards Vintage for not much more, and play with power.
MTGO legacy is cheaper, but still outside most peoples price range, which is the problem you need a decent disposable income to play anything other then standard or pauper, unless you have been building up a collection for years and most of those people go to Modern as they have most of the cards already.
This is a real problem, I live in an area where the playing options are pretty much just kitchen table casual and fromt he few time I playe it was mostly the type of innactive multiplayer (most people just sit around and durdle unless someone has made themselves an obvious target, and they are afraid to make themselves a target, so the game goes on until someone pulls of a big play to win) games I got sick of in University, there was as store, but the owner kept screwing up things ans alienating his customers so people stopped going there. Last year when VMA came out, I decided to get back in to MTGO (sold everything digital to a friend back during Alara as I was not playing Magic at the time) and at what I am able to spend I am still not caught up with my physical collection (only just had the cash to buy Goyfs last month, still need to get the Zen fetches, Lilliana's, Show and Tell, Grisslebrand, most of MUD and Miracles... it will be a while since I can normally only spend $100-$200 a month while I am still paying off Student Loans)
Sarcasm? Daze is over $25 apiece online. (Edit: Because it's good. I'm an idiot.)
Vintage is still ridiculously underplayed, despite the much lower cost of entry. Even a deck with only Lotus and a Mox, it's almost $200 for two cards that you can't play anywhere else (except maybe EDH? I'm not sure). Some of the same issues there I think.
Also, cards don't have the same guarantee to hold their value. Foils exist, but they're rarely significantly pricier, because they're essentially a ripple animation. The lack of Reserved List means they CAN keep the price down, although with more Wastelands coming out in Tempest Remastered (as a Rare), it didn't seem to make it drop much. This I think also keeps people away from investing into Vintage, because Power always = easily accessible cash.
Last edited by jrsthethird; 07-11-2015 at 07:05 AM.
Umm, Masques block is NOT from the start of MTGO, it started with Invasion, Masques black was the LAST of the pre MTGO sets to be added.
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/mag...ther/11222011d.
Wasteland is ~30 tix less than what is was at before Tempest Remastered was announced. It droped to just over 40 tix right before the set was released. the reprint did affect the price allot, however the window for buying and drafting the set was so small (something like 3 weeks) that it did not put enough into the card pool to significantly affect the long term price, and Wasteland has recovered most of what it lost, but the price is allot lower then it was.
When is the next banned list update? I can't find a date.
Just finished making omnitell and kinda worried dig through time is going to get axed:/
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2015-03-23
Hate to break it to you, but it's announced this Monday
I never paid much attention to extended, but the Modern ban list philosophy seems like it's based on marketing moreso than the Legacy ban list philosophy.
Why is there a turn four rule in Modern (but not Legacy)? If a combo deck is dominant and oppressive, they don't need an extra rule to justify the ban! The purpose of the T4 rule is to facilitates bans to kill decks which are not OP. Why would WotC want to kill (or curb) a deck which is not OP? Because that deck is not "fun".
And that's all there is to it. In Modern, WotC will not allow anything that will turn off the player base. This includes fast combo, but also slow, grindy, control. Legacy has always allowed for every slow and very fast decks. It's well known that some players don't like those decks, but I think the target audience for eternal has always been people who enjoy less conventional strategies and/or who have a thicker skin.
For the record, it is not acceptable to slow play (or "stall") in Legacy, but it is acceptable to play a slow deck that needs lots of time to play correctly.
I honestly believe that miracles game 2 plan is to stall for a win if they won the first game. They sideboard out all the win cons, while adding in as many answers as they can, and just try and make sure they don't die. If they lose game one they sideboard in more win cons and try and finish the match. I think most people know this to be true and it is one of the unspoken secrets to miracles success.
As for the banned list, what do people think is most likely for legacy:
A) No change.
B) Ban Top.
C) Ban Dig through time.
D) Both B and C.
Personally I feel like Either C or D are totally possible. With Cruise banned I think Dig has replaced it and has warped the meta. Most top decks run 3-4 it seems like.
No, they generally don't unless they need the consistency. a full set of DTT is just too much unless your deck is called Miracles, and eveen then it isn't optimal to play the full set. Look at the two finalist Miracles decks from GP:Lille. Neither played the full set main. It's still a possible ban because, and this is relevant, it compares to Brainstorm and it doesn't always lose.
They might stall that way, not the same as a slow play. There are no rules against making legal plays, as long as they are made in timely fashion. At a time when Worldgorger Dragon has just been unbanned, I don't think WotC are worried abourt intentional G2 draws attempts.
Note that the Shahrazad ban came with this disclaimer:The same cannot be said for SDT.I have a hard time imagining any real strategic value to playing the card others than as a pure time-wasting device; to that end I don't think we are taking anything away from the "eternal" formats by not allowing the card
Regarding Monday, I'm guessing A or C. I'm not anticipating a Top ban - if WotC want to kill Miracles they can probably do so in a way that will incur less splash damage.
I have the same feeling about the reserved list. What about WotC sanctioned dual land proxies and other reserved list cards? For example, 8 sanctioned reserve list proxies could be used for any legacy deck.
Printing proxies would not exactly be a reprint. Wotc world still make money off the proxies and prices of reserve list cards would not drop as long as they don't flood the market with proxies.
They should stop banning cards. They need to unban survival, earthcraft and black vise.
brainstorm, dark ritual, lions eye diamond, force of will and wastland all define legacy.
Wotc needs to print a legacy masters.
No complaints here. Agree with everything you've said. The sad thing is, that's extremely unlikely to ever happen.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
The use of proxies would have to have a condition, for example: in order to use this proxy in a sanctioned event, you must pay $x to the tournament organizer per proxy being used. The cost should be cheap enough so rose that don't grind sanctioned eternal events don't end up spending the price of the card being proxied, but not so cheap that it would make no financial sense to use proxies over the real thing. I think $5 is a good medium, and there would only be proxies for res list cards (mainly duals). Most decks would be using 6-8 duals, so $30-40 is a much cheaper cost than $1000, but not so cheap that using them for every SCG IQ would be financially beneficial.
Some people actually think having a wide open format where jank-of-the-week makes up the format makes for a healthy format.I like playing broken and non-interactive decks when my opponents aren't necessarily prepared and loaded up on sideboard hate for me. Therefore I tend to thrive in wide-open metagames like current Modern.
Just unban Survival or ban Show and Tell. There is no acceptable argument why Show and Tell is legal and Survival is not. In fact Show and Tell should be banned instead of Survival imo.
Thinking about it now that you mentioned it, in some corporate office, banning those is probably not all that crazy.
That was my big gripe with mtgo. I own DnT, Punishing NicFit, Merfolk, and RG Tron in paper. I don't want to pay for all that stuff again to play online.
Survival unbanned, ok.
Sure i survival vendevine maverik like would be hella balanced in a terminus format.
"You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"
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