All B/R update speculation.

[Quasim0ff]

Can we please make some place, where people can post there hate towards Brainstorm, and keep it out of this thread?

Modern exists, if you don't want to play with it. Zoo.dec, UWR Tempo, Jund and everything you want legacy to be is there. Storm is garbage, combo is retarded (Amulet bloom) and the format is boring beyond anything.

I don't want to play that format. I'm OK with legacy being a defining card - Every format has them (Vintage: Moxen, Lotus, hence why Null Rod is playable. Legacy: Brainstorm, Show and Tell, SDT and a thousand other cards, hence why REB is playable, Blood Moon is playable, Wasteland is strong etc. Modern: Lightning Bolt, hence why x/4 (Goyf, Tasigur, Angler) is dominant).

[Megadeus]

Pretty sure I've seen the usual shit posting from brainstorm defenders. #GoPlayModern #IdQuit #PillarOfTheFormat

[Nielsie]

Lol, first banning the tier 2 alternatives? Tell that to Demonic Tutor or Survival! Haha!

Now that I think of it, wouldn't this mean we should unban Ancestral and ban Brainstorm? Or is perhaps Ancestral the tier 2 alternative? Afterall, Ancestral can't put back your mircales on top of your library. So perhaps everything is fine?

[Quasim0ff]

Pretty sure I've seen the usual shit posting from brainstorm defenders. #GoPlayModern #IdQuit #PillarOfTheFormat

To be fair: If you don't like the format, don't play it?

Brainstorm is everywhere, but that doesn't mean it's broken. It's just strong.

[Gheizen64]

To be fair: If you don't like the format, don't play it?

Brainstorm is everywhere, but that doesn't mean it's broken. It's just strong.

So were survival and MM, but i guess them being play able by non-blue decks mean they could be banned

[Quasim0ff]

So were survival and MM, but i guess them being play able by non-blue decks mean they could be banned

Brainstorm doesn't invalidate decks. I wouldn't mind Survival getting unbanned. Misstep is just boring, as it makes the format a de-facto 56 card format.

[Megadeus]

They weren't #SkillIntensive #PillarOfTheFormat kinds of cards. Isn't this the old argument of "Necro is okay as long as we banall the things it works well with!" .

[LeoCop 90]

I'm just astonished by this ridiculous arguments of brainstorm lovers.

Someone suggests to ban all the other blue cantrips in order to weaken brainstorm decks, because banning brainstorm would kill legacy.
Then someone else says that if you don't like brainstorm and blue decks you should play another format.

This arguments are so idiotic. Brainstorm is an overpowered card and everyone plays it. Any deck that don't play it is not competitive. For these reasons, brainstorm should be banned, plain and simple, or a lot of other cards in the banlist should be immediately unbanned.

Of course this should happen if you agree that legacy should be an enjoyable format for everyone in the future, not the format where you play blue or lose. But i suppose all of you brainstorm lovers are abasolutely fine with people switching to modern and legacy slowly dying, which is what ultimately wizards want and what is happening.

[door]

I'm just astonished by this ridiculous arguments of brainstorm lovers.

Someone suggests to ban all the other blue cantrips in order to weaken brainstorm decks, because banning brainstorm would kill legacy.
Then someone else says that if you don't like brainstorm and blue decks you should play another format.

This arguments are so idiotic. Brainstorm is an overpowered card and everyone plays it. Any deck that don't play it is not competitive. For these reasons, brainstorm should be banned, plain and simple, or a lot of other cards in the banlist should be immediately unbanned.

Of course this should happen if you agree that legacy should be an enjoyable format for everyone in the future, not the format where you play blue or lose. But i suppose all of you brainstorm lovers are abasolutely fine with people switching to modern and legacy slowly dying, which is what ultimately wizards want and what is happening.

+1. I would add that from the beginning it's no good to create any pillars and untouchable cards. When it's time to move on, we can't, because we are chained to those pillars. As a result the format is turning around just these "pillar" cards. Legacy is much more than just brainstorm, some people are afraid to admit that.

[Quasim0ff]

What the #BrainstormHaters apperently don't get is that #PillarOfTheFormat speaks to an archetype.

Force of Will isn't a #PillarOfTheFormat either, just as Brainstorm isn't a #PillarOfTheFormat.

Show and Tell is a pillar, Sensei's Divining Top (or Terminus or Counterbalance) is a pillar, Delver is a pillar. Aether Vial is a pillar.
Brainstorm IS NOT a pillar. Brainstorm is a strong card that goes into several decks to increase their playability.

(please stop using hashtags. It's retarded, and just decreases your validity of arguments.)

[door]

we understand the word pillar in different ways.

[Echelon]

(please stop using hashtags. It's retarded, and just decreases your validity of arguments.)

#Qft!

[Quasim0ff]

we understand the word pillar in different ways.

No. You misunderstand the meaning of "Pillar", then.

[btm10]

There's nothing about the card brainstorm that makes it essential to the format. The suggestion of banning ponder, preordain, serum visions, and whatever else just to keep it around is ridiculous. The only reason people suggest such asinine things is that all of the people that whine about how they will quit if it's banned. A pillar of the format would suggest that it promotes a certain style of deck, like shops or bazaar in vintage. Brainstorm doesn't do this. It is simply an overpowered card selection tool that at this point you either need to run or hate out, or simply out CA to beat. Everyone suggesting that we ban 3+ incredibly weaker cantrips all in the name of keeping a non essential card to the format sound retarded

This is a just disingenuous - I made arguments for this on the previous page. You can reject those arguments, but actually do that instead of dismissing it out of hand. The fact that Brainstorm is clearly untouchable means that targeting the other cantrips is the only option if your goal is to take some of blue's consistency tools away. And it wouldn't surprise me to learn that part of the reason that Brainstorm is untouchable is that its banning would present the worst of both worlds for Wizards - they'd piss a lot of people off AND not change much because Ponder and Preordain are drop-in replacements for Brainstorm in most decks and are still substantially better than what other colors have to offer despite having fewer functions than Brainstorm .

In short - since Brainstorm obviously won't ever be banned, what do you think should be done to improve the format that's within the realm of possibility.

[Zombie]

Ponder and Preordain are drop-in replacements for Brainstorm in most decks and are still substantially better than what other colors have to offer despite having fewer functions than Brainstorm .

I wouldn't be so sure of this, actually. Other colors have Loam, Bob, GSZ, Elves' shenanigans, Sylvan Library which are all pretty damn strong cards - I mean they see play in blue decks even now when cantrip cartel and Dig are legal, and Elves very much held its own as a top tier deck until a year or so ago.

Preordain and most likely Ponder can be competed with with nonblue tools. Having only them available would force blue shell builds to pay attention to things like card clunkiness and the impact of discard more than usual, as well as being stuck with hard choices more often, the kind of hard choices nonblue pilots already make because their CA/CQ tools are Sorceries and you often have to keep the good with the bad.

In short - since Brainstorm obviously won't ever be banned, what do you think should be done to improve the format that's within the realm of possibility.

Wholesale murder of a lot of cards - Dig, Ponder and Preordain chief among the list. I'd look at hammering Miracles and the dumbest big dumb fat to oblivion so cheat a fatty decks started to care about the gamestate again.

Thing is, it's never going to happen because the dimwits at WotC prize the length of their pretty, short reserved list so. You can't actually clear the air by banning the accomplices.

[Megadeus]

Whatever. I'm done with this thread. Continue defending your sacred cow and ban 5 other worse cantrips while we all know the true offender

[Lemnear]

I dunno which of the extremist camps in this thread is more stupid: the ones who trying to get around the fact that the cantrip shell is about the best you can run to increase the winning percentage in a tournament, or the ones who enter the format which was EVER 50%+ of cantrip-shells and start to complain about the format structure.

What logic is behind entering Vintage and complaining about Workshops for example? I have no fucking clue where the twisted image comes from that Legacy was ever any significantly different in terms of cantrip use

[Norm]

I dunno which of the extremist camps in this thread is more stupid

I do! It's the vocal minority that constantly complains about our awesome and completely busted format being...busted.

Legacy is great, these tears are delicious, stay calm and brainstorm on.

[rufus]

... Ponder and Preordain are drop-in replacements for Brainstorm in most decks and are still substantially better than what other colors have to offer despite having fewer functions than Brainstorm . ...

Ponder and Preordain may be better than the options that are available in other colors, but they are significantly weaker than brainstorm. Examples of how brainstorm is better is that brainstorm has a much stronger synergy with shuffle effects (like fetch lands), provides a defence against discard effects, and that brainstorm works better with defensive game plans that use mana.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, yo! I've been playing blue in this format since it was called 1.5 and trops were 20 each. Brainstorms power comes from the cards played with it, not inherently in and of itself. The fun of this format is the brokenness of the power level. Can't handle the blue? Get out of the format.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!