That's the reason why I play the bird, it also taps for black mana (without needing the graveyard), which is important sometimes. It paid off so far :)Originally Posted by Cambriel
I find there's very little reason to ever run 1 Heirarch over 1 BoP in a 4 Deathrite list.
Not to be snarky, but here's 2 big reasons I run some amount of Hierarch alongside DRS (over Birds):
1. Exalted....because even 1 dude with it makes differences. Situations where you have 3 exalted folk (hierarchs and QPM) turn dorks into sizable threats.
2. Occasional times where hierarch is the lone attacker (exalted being useful again), she will deal damage whereas birds will not. This may seem like a corner case, but sometimes the mana dork is the only creature I have that sticks on the table (see: countermagic, removal, no additional threats). Hierarch can chip away at the opponent and/or damage with Jitte. Birds is perpetually a 0/1 flyer. I would argue swords of X&Y make either mana dork suddenly fantastic.
The only time I could see myself cut hierarch from Maverick would be to run some greedy 4C list. Birds being dork #5 to give you consistent access to red or black > hierarch.
Anyone playing punishing maverick right now? I am thinking about unsleeving RG Lands to give it another shot.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
I've been playing a pretty retro Naya list a bunch recently.
The things I miss from GWb are mana dorks with >1 toughness and Zealous Persecution. Punishing Fire is my jam though and Blasts are super good as well.
I know there is also a 4-color version, but I'm not a huge fan from what (little) of it I've played.
I have been super busy with life and couldn't post about tournaments, but This is my 4c Pun Mav list:
--Thalia punishing maverick--
24 Creatures:
Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Thalia, Guardian of Thrabein 3
Aven mindcensor 2
Gadock teeg 2
Quasali pridemage 2
Scavenging ooze 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1
13 Non-Creature spells:
Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 3
Umezawa's jitte 2
Lands 23
Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Cavern of souls 1
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept 4
Non-Etutor SB:
Pyroblast 3
Etherswon canonist 2
Zealous persecution 2
Fiery justice 1
Reclamation sage 1
Bajuka bog 1
Surgical extraction 1
Slaughter games 2
Gadock teeg 2
Been doing well with it recently. The slaughter games, ZP, and 4 teegs have been pretty sweet actually. Miracles is the main reason I'm at 4 teegs. Rather than playing other cards that sorta beat the deck, I have decided to go and play as many copies of the card that makes me win the MU as I can. Fiery justice is newer in my list, but I think it could be a killer when used in the right spot.
Hey Mavericks.
Question for you folks. I've been playing this deck a bit over the past year. I've been playing with the DD + TS package, and I've really been enjoying the deck. I've also been back and forth with a Bog somewhere in the 75, as well as a crop rotation. The question I would like to pose, and if this is the wrong thread let me know, but would it be a valid strategy to play a sort of Maverick style deck with a lands sub theme? I really enjoy the way the deck plays for the most part, would it be possible to play like a singleton Life from the Loam maindeck to leverage wasteland, and running, say, a tranquil thicket in the board over Sylvan Library? Or is this just not the correct deck for this?
I used to run Loam in Punishing Maverick, since that allows us to dredge into just about everything we need, especially if we can land Sword of Light and Shadow. I never ran cycling lands, but I never leave home without Horizon Canopy no matter what build I use. Recently, I've built The Loam deck from Lille, which is actually more of a Loam/Maverick hybrid. It's likely to replace Maverick as my go-to legacy deck for the foreseeable future; it just feels so wonderfully well-tuned.
Appreciate the input. Yeah, I was eyeing that deck as well, I just dislike having fewer DRS, it's become a favorite of mine. Also, I'm not as much a fan of the black spells, but I do like the lands angle that it takes.
Cheers.
Dear all Maverick players,
Last night I have streamed some games against a Miracle list with a fair amount of creatures.
Here is the link to the stream: http://www.twitch.tv/phlogisten/v/9482152 (Audio loops at the beginning so skip ahead to legacy)
We did some sealed cube at the start of the night, so skip ahead and start watching at an 1:35:00 to hear me talk briefly about the Legacy matches start at about 1:39:00.
Here is the list I played that day:
lost the 2 Mindcensors, added 4th Pun and a Loam (good idea on loam Moroklumpen. I took it out when I added Thalia, but i think its needed)
22 creatures
Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Thalia, Guardian of Thrabein 3
Gadock teeg 2
Quasali pridemage 2
Scavenging ooze 1
Noble Hierarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1
15 Non-Creature spells:
Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the Loam 1
Lands 23
Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Cavern of souls 1
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept 4
Non-Etutor SB:
Pyroblast 3
Etherswon canonist 2
Zealous persecution 2
Fiery justice 1
Reclamation sage 1
Bajuka bog 1
Surgical extraction 1
Slaughter games 2
Gadock teeg 2
I lost a game or 2 more than I won, but for an inherently bad match up, the deck is treating me well, especially in sideboard matches. I will be taking out the two Slaughter Games (even when it acted like a duress too), as I did not love them in the match up (miracles can kill you too many ways), and I will be trying out 2 copies of choke to replace both Slaughter games in the side board. Comments and questions appreciated. I hope the audio is good enough for a listen. Thanks for reading.
Ps. Keep playing fair!
Isn't Thalia an issue with Punishing Fire? The non-synergy is the main reason I stopped playing Punishing Fire in favor of a built with 4 Wasteland + 4 Thalias.
Also with Loam I'm always considering Sylvan Safekeeper as a 1-of. I would also consider a pair of Abrupt Decays, as a catch-all answer (maybe a 3/3/2 split with PF and StP).
I like your sideboard too, except for the Teegs. They are great, but I think playing the full four in the 75 is overkill.
Unfortunately I have no time to watch your games to give some comments, but Miracles is very beatable with Maverick. I think the matchup isn't that bad as everyone says. It's not a cakewalk, but playing tight and know your lines of play is key.
I tested against it for GP Lille quite a bit (with Dark Maverick) and had quite decent results with the list I posted above.
Formerly known as Bierbaron.
Thanks for checking out the list. I'm glad you like most of the sideboard. Things on the 75 are changing nearly weekly for me. The videos aren't the most entertaining perhaps , but there isn't much content in this universe that shows Miracles Vs Mav that I know about. Maybe some of my plays (good and bad) will be insightful to see. On a local level, I have been doing well, but I know that I could make more optimal plays at times and maybe change a few cards to better suit the current meta.
Thalia and Pun Fire do not work great together, but I don't think anyone is gonna beat Omnitell without Thalia playing Maverick game 1 especially. Mindcensor doesn't do enough, so I had to make the switch. 4 teegs has been pretty good so far. It's the best card in a lot of matchups, and letting the opponent kill teeg and landing another teeg is mainly how I win against Micracle decks. Safekeeper is cool, but the idea of losing lands is brutal, so I would sooner play more copies of haters, rather than play a 5th weird Mother of Runes. The main thing I am learning in mtg is that most any good card can be used in the right time. In other words, if Pyroblast, Pun fire and Thalia are all effective cards in your deck , why not play all 3?
No offense, but if you're worried about Omnitell so much, just go standard Maverick (GWx) with Canonists in the main. Also, I agree with @ Fl0do's points. Especially 4 teegs. That's beyond overkill.
Playing 4C punishing maverick with pfires engine + thalia in the main looks like a pile. Since you're already in the spirit of aggro loam, just play aggro loam instead.
Perhaps I would consider changing decks, what stops me is that I've been winning a lot. This list is fine. Play it before you hate on it.
4 teegs could be overkill, but playing red is not a non-viable option. Trying to talk me out of it is not worth anyone's time.
I really would try out the Ethersworn Canonists instead of Thalia. Canonist matches better with Punishing Fire, hates on Omnitell and ANT and helps for some extent against Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor.
Against Omnitell I can also recommend playing some Krosan Grips, which have applications in a lots of other matchups too.
Formerly known as Bierbaron.
Just starting playing Legacy a bit more. Figured it wouldn't hurt me to have a deck around. I've got everything for this but a Karakas and that's easily remedied. I'm pretty sure my list is pretty standard, but curious on if anything looks way out of the ordinary with my adjustments...
Lands (23)
4 Marsh Flats
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plains
1 Forest
Creatures (25)
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Aven Mndsensor
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
Instants and Sorceries (9)
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Green Sun's Zenith
Enchantments (1)
1 Sylvan Library
Artifacts (2)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Sideboard:
1 Bojuka Bog (possibly Rest In Peace)
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Choke
1 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Krosan Grip
2 Containment Priest
2 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
Scryb Ranger has been fun for simple trickery at times, but I'm not completely sure how relevant it is. Titania is REALLY good if it even sticks for a turn. Otherwise, it's a pretty fun deck to play.
Last edited by PowrDragn; 08-12-2015 at 03:33 PM.
List looks fairly standard, but on a closer look there are some things I think you have to change.
Most important:
- Fetchland configuration: If you're playing BGW always play 4 Windswept Heath and X Verdant Catacombs before playing any other fetchland. You always want to be able to fetch Dryad Arbor with every Fetchland you play.
- You play only 3 Deathrite Shamans and 3 Green Sun's Zenith. So you don't play the maximum number of turn 1 mana-accelerators while upping the curve with things like Titania and Aven Mindcensor. I recommend playing at least 4 manadorks (I'm playing 5 atm) and I think it is a mistake cutting on Green Sun's Zenith, as it is clearly the engine of this deck, acting as a mana dork, disruption piece and a threat while always helping to curve out.
Some thoughts on:
Karakas vs. Maze of Ith - don't forget that Maze of Ith won't tap for mana, Maze of Ith should always take a spell slot. Also Karakas provides tricks with your legends and takes care of problematic legends on the other side, so Karakas will always be better than Maze.
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - if you play the full 4 wastelands I would also play the full 4 Thalia's, the combination is just good in a spell based format like Legacy.
Aven Mindcensor, Titania - While Mindcensor is still a valid hatebear (though costing 3 hurts a lot), I think Titania is win more. Just upping the GSZs up to 4 might do the trick, in my opinion Equipment or a KotR are closing the game in a similar fast fashion than Titania, while providing more utility.
I personally prefer to play a 3rd Equipment, namely Sword of Light and Shadow and I just recommend it, it has been good for me for a whlie now :)
Formerly known as Bierbaron.
The Maze of Ith this was an old note from the notepad I copied over. Karakas is definitely the card for that slot.
As for the extra mana dorks, I've personally had ZERO mana issues. If anything, it feels like I often have too much. That's sort of what lead to some of my choices.
I agree that it feels like the deck wants a 4th Thalia. I just had a lot of times where I drew an extra one and would rather it be something else. But who knows? Maybe it should go back in over the Aven Mindcensor.
I could see this list being
-2 Aven Mindsensor
+1 Thalia
+1 Green Sun's Zenith
I actually appreciate the Titania a lot. It's given me something worthwhile to search for with a late GSZ that can pretty much end the game, or at least lead to the endgame in a turn or two. Though, I'm not against the idea of a 3rd equipment. It's less exciting if I'm playing even more Thalia, but it's still good. Definitely something I've considered as well.
Thanks for the input.
I feel like when I played Mav, i always wanted 5 manadorks and 5 Mother of Runes. So, I did.
-Matt
I could also see adding two Birds of Paradise in place of the last Aven Mindsensor and the Scryb Ranger.
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