Hey, Matt, how would you go about beating mud? I'm playing a Junkblade version with 2 top, 2 courser, 2 library. I'm guessing a Teeg or GSZ version is probably better in this matchup, but I thought I would get the little details. It's a Kuldotha build with silver bullets and 3x Ugin.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Teeg is great int he matchup, and so are Grip and Decay. STP is generally your only way to beat cards like Wurmcoil or Platinum Emperion. My thing is always try to have removal for Metalworker, and sometimes Goyf if just too big for them. It's a tough matchup, for sure.Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
What are you boarding out, considering I'm saying board in all the things? Discard is fine on the play, but on the draw, it's bad. Chalice at 1 is a real card. I even do board out discard on the play, since I'm just trying to slam DRS and accelerate or hold up STP for metalworker or something.
The matchup is grindy. It was my only loss Thursday night, so I went 3-1, and I lost to it at Lille in Round 2 because he had nut draws.
-Matt
Junk Stoneblade spiked an IQ a couple weeks ago.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=88194
List seems a little all over the place to me, but it's cool to see the result. The 1 Teeg, 1 Dryad Arbor, 0 GSZ is especially weird. But congrats to Mark.
Seems like the lists that are doing well are those with Scullers in them. Deadguy or Junk. Figures, right?
Here is the current mainboard list I am running.
Creatures: 14
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Dark Confidant
3 Tidehollow Sculler
Instant and Sorcery: 17
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords To Plowshares
3 Lingering Souls
Planeswalkers: 4
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Artifact and Enchantment: 4
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
21 Lands:
4 Scrubland
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacomb
3 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Wasteland
Give me your thoughts!
Sculler is pretty much the best show and tell hate you can play. Unless they can cunning wish kill you immediately, you will have a chance to take the other relevant combo piece. Emrakul is kill able, Lilliana/karakas, and sculler forces them to need more to kill you the long way.
It says a lot about the format where Goyf has been benched in almost all of the decks where've was a mainstay. Legacy Junk has pretty much always started with 4 Goyf 4 confident now the big guy has been sidelined for a squire and a mans dork. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Unforts he is just super vanilla. He does nothing against Dig Through Time. At least Sculler makes them use a piece of removal to get rid of it, etc. I'm quite saddened, but hopeful that DTT will be banned, or the format will shift and Goyf will come back. He's good in BUG, but again, they have access to other stuff (like counters) and don't need to play garbage like Sculler to try to win. I'm a bit peeved.
-Matt
I traded my goyfs a few months ago for an English Tabernacle. Which is the best deal ever seeing how I picked up goyfs for $2 each back before people realized how broken he is.
I really want a reason to buy new ones but it seems that all of the decks that I play have cut Goyf for more utility/disruption creatures.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Easier to borrow Goyfs than a Tabernacle, that's for sure.
-Matt
Pyromancer tokens and delving 5/5 also have slowed down my tarmogoyfs... He isn't even the biggest kid oun the block anymore, pretty crazy.
I'm working on a super consistent 4 Gsun 4 Shaman list with 2 libraries, 4 bobs and testing entomb as another consistency addition for therapy, souls and life from the loam. Goyf makes it in as part of the toolbox as beat stick against combo. I'll post a list if you like, it's thoroughly untested :P though I know it's good against Miracles, even a large entreat can't beat lingering souls and and a jitte! Then you just lock them out with sylvan safekeeper and teeg main deck ;)
Safekeeper is a tank and will always deserve my love, whether he makes the 76 or not :P
-Matt
Honestly I think goyf just slows the deck down, thinking of running 2 tasigur in my list though. Sculler is stronger than goyf in this type of deck. Sculler is smaller but it needs hand disruption and Sculler is perfect. Also, Teeg is better in the sideboard.
Not when you have 1 and running Gsun, in my opinion.
So many decks he is strong against. And he's our best answer to stop opponents from "digging" their way out of a game.
Being able to shut down miracles mid game and all combo decks except reanimator game 1 on turn 2 with acceleration is pretty worthy of his inclusion.
The deck has the hand disruption without him to beat combo decks and miracles game one easy. Reanimator isn't that big right now so you are putting in a one of for something that you have a low probability of getting matched against.
The main problem is he doesn't DO anything. He's a 4/5 (which one can argue is only okay), but mainly, when he hits the board, he doesn't leave anything behind. Sculler is great disruption and needs to eat a removal spell if they want that card back, and SFM still gets the Equipment. Goyf doesn't do that, and that's why he's dead in a few matchups that have, unfortunately, become rather important (aka SnT/Omni, Miracles, he's fine against Grixis).
I think he's still a tank if you do curve well, and against many other decks. The problem is that he's lackluster (a bit) against a few of the key ones, at the moment.
@SDEMatt, we were talking about main deck teeg with Gsun :P
@JPTyson, he isn't good against reanimator, I said "except" :P he's gold against Miracles, Show n Tell, Storm, Dig-through-time, and other random combo decks like dredge etc
Bare in mind I was also talking about my list that currently doesn't have scullers (I love the card, just messing around with other ideas and he is in the sideboard now)
I am playing in a local legacy event later today. The last time I went undefeated, which was great, but I know that my deck needs some updates. Here is my list for today, with some open slots. I'd love some comments on how to finish it off.
4x deathrite
4x bob
4x goyf
3x stoneforge
3x tidehollow sculler
4x thoughtseize
4x plow
3x decay
1x vindicate
2x sylvan library
1x jitte
1x bskull
2x liliana
2x OPEN (thinking hymn, gsz + teeg, souls maindeck, inquisition of kozilek, or other suggestions if i own them/can get them today)
4x verdant catacombs
1x marsh flats
1x windswept heath
1x misty rainforest
2x scrubland
1x bayou
1x temple garden
2x swamp
1x forest
1x plains
1x treetop village
4x wasteland
1x volrath's stronghold
1x urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
Sideboard
2x lingering souls
2x zealous persecution
2x choke
1x pernicious deed
1x pithing needle
2x surgical extraction
2x scavenging ooze
1x gaddock teeg
2x ethersworn canonist
I am leaning towards Hymn in the two maindeck slots (sleeved that way now.) just some questions for folks:
1) Is deed enough to warrent more than one in the board? I board it in rarely (elves, affinity, d&t)
2) Is loam good enough to squeeze a spot in the board?
The updates I know I need are another Bayou and a Savannah, possibly another fetchland. Volrath's Stronghold is good at grinding late games due to a lack of wasteland in my metagame (only a few folks play it.)
Thanks in advance! Wish me luck...
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
For the two free slots, I'd add in a GSZ and another piece of card advantage/selection. Another Library/Top, or maybe even just a value Loam.
I think Loam is good enough if you're fighting fair decks all day. Deed has been super lackluster for me when I've played Nic Fit, so I'd just try EE or run more ZP's. I feel like you're a little Needle light and Teeg light, so I'd cut the Deed for a Needle, a Surgical for a Teeg, and have a GSZ and a Loam/Sylvan Library/Sylvan Safekeeper/Lingering Souls/whatever #value slot.
My two cents. I like the list. I think Hymn might make it too clunk-city, but the package of Thoughtseize, Sculler, and Hymn seems adorable, but I like having the long term value and not feeding Dig :P Double Ooze is saucy. I've been playing two in Junk Fit and really love it.
Is there a way to utilize chalice of the void without going full blown aggro loam?
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
In short, I don't think so. You sacrifice targeted discard, deathrite, and plows. Once those are gone you just pick up the cards that aggro loam uses and you're there.
I used hymns and went 1-2. Only 4 players showed so it was a little underwhelming. I beat an infect homebrew, went 0-2 against miracles, and went 1-2 against enchantress.
Miracles still gives me fits. I think the correct decision is to maindeck Teeg and a GSZ. I still like lingering souls in the board, but it could be correct for the maindeck. I also noticed when I curved hand disruption I felt unbeatable (thoughtseize into sculler into hymn/liliana.) I dropped the volrath's stronghold for an overgrown tomb, I was worried about 5 colorless lands. I think I can include it. I noticed treetop village was very good against miracles, maybe a second would be good (or maybe garruk relentless?) I learned that mentor out of their sideboard is an army in a can. Boarding in souls is correct, but also zeaolous persecution needs to come in. Faster clock and can cause blowouts.
I don't have a gsz currently so for now the hymn slots will become teeg and a 3rd liliana.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
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