The funny thing is that for me the reserved list means exactly the opposite. I would be less likely to buy in at the current prices if I had 0 guarantee. In this respect I don’t think the reserved list is a barrier for new players as it gives some kind of guarantee that the prices won’t just crash overnight with a massive reprint. Although I didn’t buy in for speculation reasons nor do I expect to retain value, never the less it feels better with the reserved list. And besides I don’t think it would be any fun if the prices would drop dramatically, then the eternal formats would lose their allure. You would just see an influx of your average smart ass biebers popping up everywhere.Originally Posted by Cartesian
It’s probably better they would redistribute legacy stashes through things like priceless treasures (maybe legacy masters?) or similar and use all available means to stop the speculators / “investors” hording cards for profit (especially the big culprits). Surely they could at least try if they wanted to right? Hasbro has more “power” influence than these hoarders reaping us off right?
Last edited by MechTactical; 08-12-2015 at 06:36 AM.
Very interesting point, I agree to some extent. I still think the current financial barrier to entry to Legacy is simply too high for many players that would otherwise be interested.
That is not everyones opinion, though. I think Legacy is very interesting right now. Maybe it is because I still think that it is possible to be innovative and attack specific decks and the format (which is very predictable at the moment) from new angels. If I ever lost that feeling, I would probably by bored too.
About SCG, other places are taking over now, streaming Legacy from smaller locations on a regular basis.
Attracting new people to the format is becoming more difficult also because not everyone is interested in playing the cantrip cartel. There is just no room for innovation or alternative deckbuilding in legacy, so people who like me don't like playing the blue stuff either quit legacy or start playing modern where you can do a lot more things with a reasonable chance of winning.
The sad part of this is that i'm convinced banning brainstorm would open a lot more breathing room for different decks in legacy, making the format more interesting.
Regarding legacy streams, nowadays they are probably one of the most boring things i've ever watched, with all the same decks covered (because they are the only decks people play, not a fault of starcitygames) and half the time spent watching brainstorms and ponders.
There is only so much "Delver vs X", Delver mirrors or other "exciting" matches like Omniderp vs anything that can people take before they'll get eventually bored. An average of 7 out of 10 of your matches being some blue cantrip shell (often alongside FoW) with exchangable wincons/removal/disruption is simply too much. Actual diversity is suffering under the pretense of the fake "diversity" the blue cantrip shell creates.
Somebody on the Wizards homepage recently stated that they banned all quality cantrips in Modern because they make games play out the same and thus make the format boring.
As for recruiting new players, I think the general consensus is that many people are interested in Legacy, but it's simply too expensive for them, thus they pick up Modern instead.
All the RL does is create an artifical bubble that is going to pop sooner or later - be it either Magic/Legacy dying for good or the Chinese getting their shit together regarding quality fake cards. Especially the latter is a concern if value remains high since there's alot of money to be made.
I find it hard to take anyone who says this seriously, as it's clear they are just regurgitating what other people have said on the matter.
Generally speaking the RL certainly gives some comfort to players buying in. And all of us who bought in now would feel like monkeys getting raped by wizards if they crashed prices with a reprint.
That being said I’m willing to take one for the team if it helps the format.
So what? It makes sense. People repeat each other all the time.
Other people doing something doesn't make it ok :P. Have you seen the B/R thread? It's probably the most redundant thread on this forum, as the same thing is repeated on either side of the same issue for the last 50+ pages. This site isn't supposed to be mtgsalvation Legacy-edition.
If you prefer i wil repeat brainstorm, ponder, gitaxian probe, dig through time, force of will every time i have to speak about those cards. Doesn't matter if i call them blue shell, cantrip cartel or stinky shit, it is just a method to save time.
Cantrip cartel or not, magic is still 1000% healthier than hearthstone :)
Same for the other extreme, people who refuse to look at the situation objectively.
Vancouver used to have a strong Legacy scene, with a box tournament every month and multiple stores running Legacy weeklies. Nowadays? 8-12 players, maybe, at one store.
And lots of scenes, rather than growing or thriving, are shrinking or dying out. FACT.
A message like the one you posted doesn't actually mean much of anything because it's a bunch of bluster without any real facts behind it (despite the "FACT"). Sure, some areas are thriving. Other areas are doing the opposite. You need to look at the big picture and see if the general trend is growth or decline.
About two years ago we were around 14 people for our legacy weeklies, now we’re usually ~40. Yep, circa 40 ppls every wednesday playing legacy.
A lot of new faces, usually starting out with something “cheap”, D&T, Nic Fit, Dredge etc., after that they start borrowing decks and after a few months they buy into blue.
For those of you that have growing Legacy scenes, what's your tournament structure like (time/cost/prize support)? Are there multiple stores in one area successfully running events? How far are people traveling? How do you advertise?
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Seattle has an excellent scene that seems to grow year over year. The regional Facebook group has 1500+ members, is highly active, and acts as The Place to advertise events. The hotspots for Legacy are Card Kingdom and Mox Boarding House (sister stores roughly 45-60 min apart) with locations in the two biggest metropolitan areas. They have Legacy weeklies on Mondays and Thursdays with payouts as follows:
$10 entry fee, 4 rounds, starts at 6:30 PM. 4-0 is $70 store credit, 3-0-1 is $50, 3-1 is $30, 2-0-2 is $20, and 2-1-1 is $15.
Store credit is saved on gift cards which an also be used in the restaurants AKA you can win at Magic and then buy microbrew booze with your winnings. Turnout is typically 30-45 players. For a weekly event.
The stores are clean, have plenty of space, excellent selection, singles, and also sell booze + upscale food. This is an ideal situation for MTG players. HOWEVER, we also have Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Bungie, Nintendo, Boeing, and a number of other gigantic companies importing young techies from all over the world to come live here. The guy you see on the street wearing a dirty t-shirt and flipflops likely makes twice as much as the guy walking next to him in a suit. That's the environment. And it's honestly great for Magic, especially Legacy. I see new faces all the time and they are in their early 20s, make programmer salaries, live alone with few responsibilities, and have insane disposable incomes. They buy into (BLUE) Legacy without hesitation. That isn't normal. This isn't an easily reproducible environment. And honestly, I don't really care for the brogrammer types. But that's the future of Legacy/Vintage so we might as well get used to it. For the Regular Joe making a median income with financial responsibilities outside of rent + a cell phone, buying into Legacy can be really daunting. Even if the prices aren't at their peak, they are still stupid high. Sure, we get some randoms who are savvy and manage to buy in. But lately those have been the exception rather than the rule.
Elves Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/2EVsdw2
shizezz more biebers, that's kind of lame... i want old folks with old cards grumping and puffing away ... that's my ideal of legacy. but i have to admit that most players i know aren't capable of spending the $$$/€€€ on these cards. god bless google and friends for brining you guyz the mtg bieber influx
I think the reason that Seattle has a burgeoning scene is because of Microsoft and other big tech companies basically mean that the average techie worker there only needs to spend a single paycheck and he can own a fully pimped out BUG Delver deck.
I'd estimate that well under 20% of the Legacy player base in Seattle is employed by one of those tech companies. The reason that Legacy is so successful here is that we have excellent stores that are willing to invest in it and a community that is interested in introducing new players to the scene. Build it and they will come.
I still remember the days when Card Kingdom couldn't get 8 people to show up at their events so we could only play three rounds. Now we're regularly in the 40's.
Seattle has Cedric Philips and Russell Wilson, what more can people there ask for?
I dunno Shawn. I'm pretty sure it's mostly programmer/techy folks at the weeklies. But I haven't exactly taken a poll or anything. And of course the local stores have done a lot to help foster the community. Anyways this is getting slightly off topic.
How about them Brainstorms, huh?
Elves Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/2EVsdw2
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