He has a bog. Relic is probably to combat the increasing number of lands deck, dig through time, anglers in grixis, etc. It also cantrips in dead match ups.Originally Posted by Morden
Threshold is a draw back from what I can see. Although interested to see if that is a good reason to play a couple extra fetchlands and maps to get it online.
This, plus it offers "draw a card", just like SDT. So you can hide your Trickbind against Storm, draw when it's needed without putting SDT on top of library... And of course great against DRS and Goyf etc
Relic is there entirely for Dig through Time and Deathrite shaman. Sadly bojuka bog doesn't work well for either of these purposes. Relic however is excellent in this regard. The only reason I still am carrying bojuka bog is to give me the threat against storm and reanimator for them to not go all-in on turn 1-2 before I can get trickbind online.
I have been alternating between 2 and 3 relic of progenitus in my build. 2 is the lowest I would go in a dig through time saturated meta.
::EDIT:: Hah Postman and Kat replied while I was taking my time replying. Approve.
my post disappeared....... I tried, hunting sucks. I tried a classical approach. Removed 1 gsz, 1 oracle, 1 explore for 3 exploration. Not bad. We know, exploration on first turns is huge. If it appears late nevermind.... (also oracle and explore are not so great on late play; gsz is, but I have only titans to tutor, and with 4 of them I always see one of them). I still lose sometimes by lack of green mana..... 3 forests, 2 savannahs and 4 fetches are not enough?? :( I will probably add 1 forest and remove ...... I don't know :(
Hunting grounds is interesting. I think you would need to build your deck around that card more, but you could make it work. You obviously would want to up your creature count and up your count of cards that go into the yard. This makes exploration worse but maps, fetches, explores, crop rotations, etc certainly help with threshold.
Could maybe play as a 1-2 of with enlightened tutors in a SB for certain MUs.
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you're right. The point is exactly this: we have to build a deck around hunting grounds. I don't know, maybe it will work, but it's not what I searched for my deck: speed.
Cool new colored Eldrazi creatures are coming:
http://www.magicspoiler.com/zendikar-vs-eldrazi/
When is Primeval titan reprinted for colorless mana?
cool new eldrazi creatures, where? i can't see any yet... let's just keep hoping...
Forerunner of slaughter has no function for us, but it is a new eldrazi.
I take a few months' break from Magic and come back to find Rock Lee playing Trickbind? I'm so happy I could cry :)
It hasn't been mentioned in at least several months, so any thoughts on possibly running Arcane Laboratory to fight against things like Omni?
Yes, you probably need Candelabra if you're running a Cloudpost deck.
There was brief conversation about laboratory and rule of law. The only issue with them for me is follow up. We need to have a follow up because omnitell can win by casting 1 card a turn within 2 turns.
I had to refine your list for my meta (less burn, more Omni, more Storm), ended up -2 Trinisphere, -1 Beb, -3 Flusterstorm, +4 Sphere of Resistance, +1 Tabernacle, +1 Krosan Grip. I added the Tabernacle to slow down certain creature decks.
I'm very tempted to add a basic forest to the sideboard for Blood Moon. Also, I like your list with Wipe Away/Explosives than Repeal/Dismember.
I've been thinking about strong openings. The type of card that makes people groan. Chalice on 1. Wasteland. Counterbalance. Post doesn't have a strong opening card that works to the tempo of the deck, near as I can tell. After pithing needle on wasteland, then what?
I don't understand at all how more storm more omni means you cut fluster, trinisphere and beb, all cards that come in against them all.
As background, I had been piloting a MUD version for the last few months, therefore I'm bringing some of its technology (spheres) to the UG version.
fluster is great vs omni, but I couldn't reliably use it vs storm, i.e. I was finding myself having to counter duresses with it than actually disrupting the combo. In omni, what spheres do, they just buy me time; trinishphere is better at this than spheres, but at 2-of I couldn't reliably find them. With spheres, I have the advantage that I can drop them earlier in the game, disrupting their cantrips/combo.
As a bonus, spheres come in vs. elves, a match up which I felt it was held by mostly chasm, but not strongly due to their multiple DRS.
I didn't really understand how to use beb, omni doesn't run red spells worth countering, unless they wish for a firemind's foresight as their only answer, but the thing is we don't put too much pressure on them, so they have multiple spells to cast in hand, and so that's just not a reliable answer vs them.
That's where the Arcane LAboratory comes in.
Omni sideboards pyromancers in most builds. Its their answer to excessive combo hate.
There are two methods to beat discard, one is hide your silver bullet with top/brainstorm, the other is to have too many cards to discard and they need to wait/plan. Crop/Fluster/Trickbind are your instant answers, 3sphere/relic/show & tell are your sorcery ones. that's 17 cards they need gone, 10 of which immediately stop their combo. Wipe away has been added to make this 12 as well.
imo sphere vs elves is weak. I have found trickbind into Ugin to be the vastly superior plan vs them, with trickbind protecting/prolonging cumulative upkeep.
I didn't think about it too much, but Chalice of the void on board (with 1 counter) is worst than a wasteland on early game. No exploration, no sensei, no stirrings, no crop, no tutor, no candelabra, no needle, I can do NOTHING. Just drop a land per turn, and of course die with no hopes.
In the past I had the temptation to remove 2 explore and make a playset of exploration (instead of 3), but since a lot of deck are using chalice (aggro loam, mud, some decks as side) I keep them. And also a 1x of sylvan library, absolutely.
I've been thinking of including either some Trinispheres or some Arcane Laboratories to drop in against Omni-Tell players' Show and Tells, but I'm undecided about which would be better. Does anyone have any thoughts about which of the two are better? Some pros and cons of each that I've thought of:
Trinisphere
Pros
Can potentially be cast on turn 2 if you so desired (Cloudpost turn 1, Glimmerpost turn 2)
Can severely hinder an opponent that is mana-screwed
Cons
If an opponent has six mana, they can still get two spells in
Arcane Laboratory
Pros
Adds to your blue card count for use with Force of Will
If you are playing counters, their non-Emrakul cards will definitely be countered by a counter you have in hand
Cons
Omni-Tell player can get a spell in on your turn (Cunning Wish or Dig Through Time), giving them twice as many spells as a Trinisphere out when they have less than six mana
Overall, I'm thinking that Trinisphere is probably the more powerful card with possibly more applications, but if anyone has any thoughts on this I would like to hear them.
In other news, I have been playing the BoozeCube list and the funky mono-brown Japanese list (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16587&iddeck=124169 for reference) at some small local weeklies and have been enjoying them a bunch. I think the lists emphasize our strengths in the fair matchups and make us even better off against anything non-combo. I also love Maze of Ith in these decks, as decks like Infect seem so much more simple than the traditional UG builds. I haven't seen much discussion at all about the Japanese lists on here, but I wish I could contact one of the pilots and ask them about some of the strange inclusions (Diamond Valley, WTF?).
As with every build that doesn't include blue, I feel like excluding blue leaves us handicapped. Show and Tell is the one thing that can threaten at least somewhat fast, and countermagic gives us a fighting chance against some of the holes in our strategy. I would never stray from UG when going to a serious tournament, as I feel that UG gives us the most complete deck for any situation. But the nonblue lists are fun and at times dominating.
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