I think modern is garbage comparing to legacy!
Legacy is mostly about Skill. Modern is not.
In my mind, the biggest difference between Legacy and Modern is how extreme of a different game plan different decks have.Originally Posted by elFinFas
Legacy has the most extreme decks in the game, with the widest range of what decks are trying to do. Solidarity, MUD, Dredge, BUG, Omnitell, Lands, Elves, ANT, etc. are all playing these insanely different games.
As such, a ton of the skill in Legacy is knowing what you're playing against and the details of that matchup, which can get really incredibly bizarre sometimes.
Modern is a different skill... The decks aren't as radical in their gameplans, and frankly most matches drag into mid-range slug-fests and after a few rounds you're left exhausted because each match-up starts to feel like the same sort of grind. Instead of "Can I meaningfully interact on turn 1 and 2 with this combo deck so it doesn't kill me" it's "can my turn 1-3 disruption stop their turn 4-5 beater cards better than their disruption stops mine?"
Neither is easier to play, that will of course always depend on the decks and the players... Legacy is just so varied, it's so much more enjoyable to most players.
Allow me to paraphrase: Modern is a format of combo a vs combo b. Yes, you'll be amazed at how frequently the MU is just combo a vs combo b. In such event, where is the interaction, if any? Also, there're more planeswalkers being played in Standard and Legacy than in Modern. Tapping out 3~4 Mana to play a planeswalker in Modern sound like a stupid idea, while it is possible to do so in Legacy thanks to various tools the format has to offer.
in conclusion, modern sux.
It's been a while since I've seen a statement this idiotic.
I would have agreed with this a few years ago, but I don't anymore. Diversity in Legacy is so strangled by the cantrip shell that games feel very same-y to me. Sure, if you have people like me who play a lot of off-the-wall shit instead of trying to win, your Legacy meta might have different-feeling decks. Modern decks tend to use dramatically different shells and so games feel different (and very swingy). You have a BGx shell, a URx shell, an Rx shell, and that's just the fair decks. There is no single combo shell in Modern because cantrips are weak, so you get combo decks that play dramatically different from one another.
The best deck in Modern is Jund. It's probably the most interactive deck as well. The strongest combo deck is Twin, which plays an enormous amount of interaction and often plays more like a tempo or agro-control deck than a combo deck. Non-interactive combo does exist but those decks are much less of a share in the metagame than Omnitell or Storm are in Legacy. So yeah, maybe I shouldn't be surprised that comments about Modern on the Source are outright lies. At this point I feel like it's just haters desperately trying to keep up the illusion that Legacy is a more diverse and interesting format than Modern - it'll be interesting to see how long it takes for the illusion to fall apart.
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It's probably a little late to respond to this but here I go anyways!
I don't know if I would call Richmond's legacy scene growing but the amount of tournaments that we have had recently is higher than it has been in the past. Which is pretty good considering how none of the local stores usually support legacy (I think there is casual legacy player i.e. 2-3 players with decks playing against each other constantly). It's mostly because of 1 dude who likes playing legacy and works in a bowling alley who hosts monthly tournaments. Entrance is $10 which pays for food and free bowling. The bowling alley has beer too, so there is a good bit of drinking during the tournament. Prize support just depends on the number of players that show up, for the times that I have attended it has been some legacy staple. Attendance varies greatly between the events somewhere from 10-20ish players, luckily there seem to be more and more new faces each time I have attended. Normally advertisement has been through word of mouth or the Richmond Eternal facebook group.
Last edited by CptHaddock; 08-18-2015 at 07:47 AM.
I think "grindy" and "swingy" are synonyms here.
Modern decks tend to have more interaction, because they need it because combos don't end games as fast as in Legacy and so games become mid-rangey.
I love Legacy because of how rock-paper-scissory the different decks are. Even with the cantrip cartel, which I feel is beyond defending at this point, you still get match-ups between cantrip decks that play radically differently. Legacy games don't usually swing or grind, how the game will be is more settled before the game starts than in Modern.
So what I'm saying is not knocking modern at all... I believe it is a more Spikey format than Legacy, exactly because games grind/ swing/ matter/ give players time and opportunity to actually play the game. Legacy is more of a Johnny format where the build of the deck is radically important and it tends to either work or not and games are more likely to be blow-outs.
Between the two options, I prefer how Legacy plays. I totally get why people prefer Modern, I think the majority of Spikes would. Who wants lopsided matches and games that entirely hinge on one stack exchange? For some reason I do...
Every Legacy deck I see I think, "I want to play that!" I've never had a Modern deck excite me, every time I see one I think "I'm going to have to grind out every win with this thing". I have a half dozen Legacy decks I love, I've been through thirty Modern decks and can't find one that gives me that good ole' Magic feeling I tend to get from other formats.
Not that you're wrong, but never forget that an important thing about Modern might be that there are crappy (dual)lands to start with, and there are no old cards to play with. It's quite possible that half of your discontent comes from the mere fact that you cannot play nice and nostalgic cards (moreover: powerful ones), but you're limited to worse cardpool. I'm pretty sure that it works in my case, as there are lots of Modern decks I'd love to play, but I'm unwilling to ever lay my fingers on shockland.
Anybody watching New Jersey invitational semi/finals? I'm about to fall asleep if I have to watch another delver match. Legacy has really lost a lot of the appeal that attracted me to the format in the first place imho. Watching a delver fight a drs is about as exciting as watching standard.
I didn't even bother after seeing 5 fucking Delver lists in the Top 8. Quickly tuned in for the 5th game of the semis, which was kinda entertaining.
But 7 decks running some combination of Brainstorm + Ponder + DTT, plus a single Merfolk? I remember being excited about watching the Open. Now it's just a borefest because diversity is dead.
Yep. Legacy is a snoozefest. I'mwatching purely because I have nothing better to do after work.
What's worse is I can't even troll SCG chat because you have to subscribe to their channel to comment.
At the moment, I would rather play a Modern tournament instead of a Legacy tournament. A big part of the reason I still attend monthlies in my area, is to support the local scene.
I am a Spike who likes to pimp out decks, so I find Modern very suitable to my tastes.
If you want to complain about lopsided combo races between Infect vs Boggles or Grishelshoal vs Burn; then man up and play some disruption or play an interactive deck like Jund, Twin or Grixis Control.
Hey they are all different skill intensive takes on blue. Brainstorm promotes a 75 card deck building experience becuase .... Uh. Nevermind. Its a complete joke at this point to defend the state of the banned and restricted list.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsAwmqEqnx8
As good a solution to the dullness as any - and certainly skill-testing! They have consistent results. Imagine that.
I think you are looking for the Street Fighter thread.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
How much interaction is there between Living Death vs Affinity? How much interaction is there between Bogle vs Living Death?
MUs among Affinity, Bogle (auras), Living Death, Reanimator, and Ad Nauseam, I just don't see it. They all do their own thing, and then that's the match result.
Are you suggesting that Omni-tell is not interactive? It has counters and lighting bolt, hello? I question your understanding of interaction. Who's being a hater and an illusionist here?
This makes no sense. Did you pimp out Pod before the ban hammer? From the financial perspective, investing in foil pimp-out Pod to get banned is precisely the reason you should not do so in Modern.
Every format has non-interactive combo MU, including Legacy. Hence, telling people to change their deck or play a different deck because the possibility of facing non-interactive MU is never a good response. The key issue is how frequent do we see this occurring? From all the on-camera matches I have seen, it's pretty damn often. That's fundamentally the problem. The distribution of Legacy is such that many people play Delver decks, hence lots of stack interaction, even when your Legacy deck isn't on delver or tempo strategy.
SCG Invitational is a mixed format event. May we compare apples vs apples?
Further, BS (4) + Ponder (4) + DTT (2) package exists in tempo, combo, and control strategy. Is this a good thing? Hell no, I would clap if WotC would drop ban the hammer on DTT. However, from diversity perspective, it's still the same. The only change is that the existing decks are standardizing their cantrip package into the identical 10. Is it possible that people switch away from decks that cannot run such package? Certainly, but I can't find conclusive data or articles about it.
Legacy is dying as a spectator sport. Playing it is a different animal. I played against 7 different decks in an SCG 5k IQ and not a single Delver of Secrets. Only 3 decks playing Brainstorm. That's probably due to card availability.
But of course, none of the non-Brainstorm lists were represented in the top 16 of that tournament. People show up with their deck, hope to have fun, go 2-3 or whatever, and there's your diverse format. And since the blue lists are better, they win, show up on coverage, driving more people to play them (hello) and push out the interesting decks.
It would be better if different kinds of decks than cantrip-into-wincon were viable, but c'est la vie right now.
I found game #5 of the World Champion final way more entertaining than any of the Delver slugfests the Open had to offer today.
I wish MTGO had that kind of diversity as you stated - instead you run into 80% blue decks. At some point, I just got bored.
I didn't complain about powerlevel, since the 7-1 Legacy decks had at least some nonblue decks: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...decklists.html
Watching Miracles, Omnitell or anything involving Delvers (especially Delver mirrors) is just boring to watch. The novelty has worn off. The only thing that is probably even worse are TNN equipped with Batterskull on both sides of the table in terms of entertainment value.
Only 5k people watched the Invitational final. Sure, you can blame the WC for that, but I wonder how many people turned off the stream disgusted by several hours of nonstop Delver-on-Delver action.
I love it, this line gets spouted out so frequently. Thing is, if you pimped out Pod you'd be rolling in money now since the Abzan Collected Company deck runs all of the same creatures along with Chord of Calling. Like it's almost the same thing, just running Collected Company instead of Birthing Pod.
The pod banning announcement happened on January, Dragons of Tarkir was released at end of March. In other words, you had no idea what would happen in between. What incentives do you have in keeping a banned deck? Furthermore, why would you put yourself in that risky position financially at the first place? What you're saying is that there is a slight chance in which that Wizard R&D might print an alternative in the next set to save your investment. Can you promise me that sequence of events will happen at every Modern banning? I can promise you Modern banning will happen in the future, Pod will not be the last one.
*raises hand*
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