How do you guys deal with Moat if it already resolved?
Echoing Truth is the common answer. Otherwise, we pray.Originally Posted by sirlaser
Someone went 3-0 yesterday on MTGO with the following 75:
Creature (24)
4 Cursecatcher
1 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
1 Merrow Reejerey
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
4 True-Name Nemesis
Instant (6)
2 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
Artifact (5)
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Land (21)
4 Cavern of Souls
12 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Wasteland
Other (4)
4 Aether Vial
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
1 Harbinger of the Tides 2 Back to Basics 2 Dismember 2 Flusterstorm 2 Grafdigger's Cage 2 Hurkyl's Recall 2 Relic of Progenitus 1 Submerge 1 Surgical Extraction
Hmm, Harbinger is having a lot of success recently! For those of you who have tried it, how do it perform for you?
I've had a few games where they'll get a DRS or Delver down, I'll play a Chalice @ 1, then use Harbinger off CoS to bounce it back to their hand and strand it.
At first I wasn't impressed by the card, but I decided to playtest 2 of them in sideboard for aggro decks, later I moved them to MD and raised the number to 3 because they turned out to be a very good answer for problematic creatures (which I lack very often), and not a dead card against combo decks. Of course the best Harbinger is a Harbinger with Vial on two :)
Thank you all for advice about SB for Death and Taxes, it helped a bit - I've played a lot against D&T recently and I finally found the match-up not so very bad, even G1.
Another question is, as I want to board in many cards G2 (2 Dismembers, 1 Echoing Truth, 1 Cursed Totem, 1 Pithing Needle) what should I take out?
My current MD list is a little different (no chalices or cliques), because my local metagame doesn't include Miracles and there's only 1 Omni-Tell.
12 Island
4 Mutavault
3 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Phantasmal Image
3 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Thx in advance :)
Against D&T, Counterspells are generally bad (though leaving in 2 forces is okayish), and cursecatchers barely has a text box.
Hey guys, I picked up first place in a 26 man event in the NL. I tried to take notes during my matches regarding my sideboarding etc. I will post my deck list later this week and the rough notes (and a few awful misplays)I had a great time but the card that caught me off guard a few times was Toxic Deluge...Hugh kick in the balls! What made the event really cool aside from the local scene was that I got to play some different decks such as UB Tezz, Lands, and MUD.
Also, when the Lands player dropped Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale in the final match I almost lost it! More info to follow...😎
Picked up first in the SFM Invitational this past sunday. Figured I should post my list and thoughts I had. Of note, since I went back to merfolk, I have consistently top 8ed.
Creatures (25)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Silvergill Adept
1 Tidal Warrior
Spells (15)
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Aether Vial
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
2 Daze
Lands (20)
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
4 Mutavault
9 Island
Sideboard (15)
1 Echoing Truth
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Divert
2 Flusterstorm
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Submerge
1 Kira, Great glass Spinner
1 Pithing Needle
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Cursed Totem
Sideboards are to the best of my memory, which was pretty poor from a hangover and 4 hours of sleep.
Going into all games I had a fairly good idea of my opponents decks since we are all friends and play eachother regularly.
Round 1 1-0
Opponent on TES: 2-0
Sideboard: 4 TNN, 1 Tidal Warrior out; 2 fluster, 1 grafdigger,
Game 1: He mulled to 6, fast clock and a chalice to lock him out.
Game 2: He kept a slow hand against a wasteland, 2 force, daze, cursecatcher, phantasmal, lord hand. I'm on the draw and topdeck the island. Im swinging in with 2 cursecatchers for most of the game(phantasmal copying cursecatcher turn 2 with a second island rip). Turn 5 he goes off on the goblin plan against a chalice on 0, end of turn I echoing truthed and he scooped.
Round 2 2-0
Opponent on UR Delver: 2-1
On the play: 1 Tidal Warrior out; 1 Chalice in
On the draw: 2 Daze, 1 Tidal Warrior out; 1 kira, 1 Chalice, 1 Echoing Truth in
Game 1: Won the die roll, raced a flipped delver with TNN on turn 3, 4 and 5
Game 2: She had 2 delvers before I landed chalice
Game 3: Went big to race her 2 swiftspears, islandwalk clinched it
Round 3 3-0
Opponent on Reanimator: 2-0
Sideboard: 2 Daze, 1 tidal warrior out, 4 TNN out; 1 Echoing truth, 1 Grafdiggers, 1 submerge, 2 relics, 1 chalice, 1 flusterstorm in.
Game 1: Pretty brutal game, I keep him off his graveyard with early cursecatchers and a lord.
Game 2: He mulls, I cursecatcher, followed by a chalice, he abrupts back and I play a lord and waste his bayou. I play a second lord and he show and tells an elesh into play, I echoing truth and he scoops.
Cut to top 8- 4-1-1(my round 5 opponent couldn't ID since he had a previous draw)
Quaterfinals
Opponent on Grixis Control: 3-1
On the play: 1 Tidal Warrior, 1 Phantasmal out; 1 Chalice, 1 Kira in
On the draw: 2 Daze, 1 Tidal Warrior out; 1 Kira, 1 Chalice, 1 Pithing Needle in
Game 1: just getting in there and pushing damage through early
Game 2: lost to a very good 1:1 with innocent blood
Game 3: Baited a spell snare turn 2, chalice on 1 turn 3, flooding the board for the win from there.
Game 4: Bit of a missplay trying to stop an innocent blood, getting in heavily later with islandwalking mutavaults and a single lord against alot of pyro tokens. He drops himself to 6 with a fetch, I play a chalice to stop him finding answers if I do rip a lord. I rip a lord, play it pass turn to not die on crackback. Block pyromancer with 3/3 mutavault and a token with lord, taking 5 and going to 2, he goes to ponder, counter with chalice and he passes back. I swing for lethal.
Notes: Game 4 cut it a bit close for comfort, game 2 his deck performed exactly the way he wanted but 1 for 1ing me seems like negative value without pyro.
Semifinals
Opponent on Miracles: 3-1
On the play: 1 Tidal Warrior out; 1 Chalice in
On the draw: 2 Daze, 1 Tidal Warrior, 1 force out; 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Chalice, 1 Kira, 1 Echoing in
Game 1: Kept a slow hand that had a phantasmal, cavern, mutavault hand, drew gas and he couldnt find a terminus.
Game 2: Mull to 5, chalice on turn 2, TNN on turn 3 which got verdicted, TNN turn 4, with force backup for councils judgement. Terminus turn 5 after I hit him for 5. I lose to 2 angels by missplaying and trying to force his entreat.
Game 3: Kept a 1 island, 2 vial, chalice hand with alot of early gas, he mulled. I never drew the second land but early double cursecatcher+double lord is a fast clock. He found a terminus after taking 8, I vial in TNN at end of his turn, put him to 4. Untap, activate vial for a lord. He attempts to STP I force but he cant force back.
Game 4: Opponent kept a hand with 3 STP 1 snapcaster mage, I go vial, jam a chalice and he scoops.
Notes: Toolan and myself usually have some pretty crazy games, his deck was leaning towards a more open meta it seemed like since I did not have to rely as heavily on the single threat at a time playstyle.
Finals
Opponent on Landstill: 3-0
On the play: 1 Tidal Warrior, 1 Force of Will; 1 Chalice, 1 Pithing Needle in
On the draw: 2 Daze, 1 Tidal Warrior out; 1 Kira, 1 Chalice, 1 Pithing Needle in
Game 1: long game, i sandbagged the chalice for ages and he still had the force. in the long run I had mana and a vial to push my topdecks through. He doesn't 1for1 as well as the grixis control deck does so it's just a matter of finding gas.
Game 2: chalice on 1 on turn 2 with FOW backup he kept me to a single island, proceeded to draw 2 vials, chipped away with silvergill until I drew lands. started to get in with multiple lords until he scooped them up.
Game 3: another grindy game but jitte, chaining silvergills, and finding my one of needle to name mishras factory to win the match.
Notes: I had learned my lesson from a previous top 8 against him, even though he is on a control list I cant keep a solid cavern hand with no basics because I can get locked out of the game too easily with my low island count. Chalice is insanely good against him, I sandbagged it trying to bait the force as long as I could before attempting to stick it game 1. Last time I played I had misboarded due to lack of knowledge on the deck, siding them out for threats and diverts, this time all 4 chalices in asap.
Sideboard choices:
I upped my Divert count that morning, there wasn't alot of omni in the room and I was a bit leery of how many players were on abrupt/hymn decks. Ended up only playing against one in reanimator, I probably could have safely left the count at 2.
I am glad I chose not to run the second tidal warrior in the board, it was a sideout every round since I never saw a jund/lands/turbo match.
Kira is fantastic if your meta has few abrupt decays, I am debating on whether to add a second.
Manriki-gusari is a necessary evil, there was 0 death and taxes in the room but it stacks the stoneblade match in your favor after board, and you can always phantasmal their Stoneforge to find it.
Cursed totem was a last minute addition, there were 2 elves players in the room and I felt better about having a second lock piece besides chalice that I could bring in to slow them down.
Final thoughts:
I am considering cutting tidal warrior completely from the list unless nonblue decks become popular again, I had left it in the main since there were quite a few standard players in attendance borrowing decks, so wanted an out to that wildcard, and it helps that it has tricky interactions. Options to replace it are either the 4th chalice, a 3rd daze, or another 1 drop merfolk.
I heard/saw stream questions about how many forces I keep in after the board. It really depends on the matchup. If they have 0 counter interaction and aren't combo I will likely side them out unless they have some haymaker plan(stax/stompy/etc). If they are blue and lose to a single card I will leave all 4 in, this is what occured during all 5 out of 6 of my legacy rounds. The miracles player was the least weak to a resolved chalice but they still have some pretty big plays that you can interact with and you don't necessarily need all your board pieces at any time.
That turn 2 win against Miracles was a nice lol moment. And the commentators kept talking for about a minute without realizing that the match is over.
Congrats Lydia!
Hello,
I noticed recently that some decks are running Harbinger of the Tides and decided to tweak and tune my Merfolk deck a bit. As result, I ended up with no Harbingers but with some bounce spells: 2x Echoing Truth and 1x Rushing River. Both work very well, especially in a token heavy environment (Mentor and Pyromancer) and both helped me to win games (tested against Miracles, Elves, Merfolk, Shardless BUG). To make some space I got rid of Dazes as with Cursecatchers, Chalices, and Caverns they feel obsolete.
My sideboard perhaps more tuned to my local metagame that is why most of the cards work extremely well. The only exception is Relic of Progenitus that I rarely use; I am thinking about substituting it either with Dismember or Harbinger of the Tides, or combination of both. Arcane Laboratory deserves a special mentioning as initially it was an insurance against OmniTell, but quickly evolved into a control mechanism that works perfectly well in combination with Vials and Caverns and slows down very fast opponents (or just hoses them).
//Deck
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Æther Vial
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Force of Will
2 Echoing Truth
1 Rushing River
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
13 Island
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Cursed Totem
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Arcane Laboratory
---
Carpe Diem
The primer here is fairly dated and lacking in matchups. I'm preparing for a monthly win-a-box tournament that also happens to have 2 byes for GP Seattle at stake as well, and there are always 2-3 Merfolk players there. I am trying to find a solid strategy to give me an edge against this particular archetype. Any chance you could point me in the right direction? Other than Junkblade, I only have blue non-combo decks. Stoneblade, Delver (all varients), Shardless BUG, non-SnT Reanimator, but the last two I only just completed and have no experience with. I'm leaning towards 4-c delver, something close to grixis green, but before I commit, I'd prefer to hear what your opinions are. Thanks in advance.
On a side-note, any chance of an updated primer for the thread? I'd like to learn more about the deck, the material just doesn't seem to exist.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
Sorry for the delay but I wanted to share my first attempt at covering my Local monthly Legacy Tournament.
Deck list
4x CurseCatcher
4x Silvergill Adept
8x Lords/Masters
2x PIs
4x TNN
2x V. Clique
2x Counterspell
4x FoW
4x Chalice
4x Vial
1x Jitte
3x Cavern
4x Mutavault
14x Island
SB
2x Hydroblast
2x Daze
2x Counterspell
2x Dismember
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Relic of P
2x Echoing Truth
2x Tormod's Crypt
Match 1 (MUD)
Won 2-1 SB: Out- 2x Chalice 2x CurseCatcher In- 2x Echoing Truth 2x Dismember
Notes: First time playing MUD...Dismember saved me the last game!
Match 2 (Show N Tell)
Lost. 0-2 SB: Out- 2x Vial In- 2x Echoing Truth
Notes: I got run over and missed a chance to counter SnT which cost me a game (punt)
Match 3 (UB Tezz)
Draw 1-1-1 SB: Out- 1x Vial 1x Jitte In- 2x Echoing Truth
Notes: Lots of fun to play against...game one was like 30 minutes...between opponent and myself we had 4x Chalices in play @0, 1, 2, and 3! Ran into Ensnaring Bridge which was tough to deal with!
Match 4 (Grixis Delver)
Win 2-1 SB: Out- 4x CurseCatcher 2x Vial In- 2x Dismember 2x Hydro 2x Echoing Truth
Notes: N/A
Match 5 (Sylivan Plug)
Won 2-1 SB: Out- 1x Vial 1x Jitte In- 2x Relic of P
Notes: I've never seen/heard of this deck...I thought it was some type of Abzan/Maverick build...tried to FoW an Abrupt Decay (Punt)
Made Top 8 at #5...dude who rocked me with SnT was undefeated up till this point.
Match 6 (Show N Tell)
Won 2-0 SB: Out- 1x Vial 1x Jitte In- 2x Daze
Notes: I had a better grasp how to deal with SnT this round...used PI to copy Emerkul which saved me on a game!
Match 7 (Grixis Delver)
Won 2-0 SB: Out- 2x CurseCatcher 1x Vial 1x Jitte In- 2x Hydro 2x Echoing Truth
Notes: Lots of fun to play as opponent was really chill...probably should have brought 2x Dismember from SB. Opponent destroyed my hand with Cabal Therapy paired with Young Pyro...used Gitaxian Probe to peek at my hand, then put Cabal Therapy to work...it sucked but I bounced back.
Match 8 (Lands) *final round*
Won 2-1 SB: Out- 4x Chalice 2x CurseCatcher In- 2x Echoing Truth 2x Relic of P 2x Crypt
Notes: Tried to E. Truth a land (punt)...my first win of the match was due simply to an opponents misplay (was fetching lands/doing Life of the Loam shizz and tried to play a Thespian Stage after he already made a land drop. I won the last game due to having V Clique to chump block Maret Lage token,
While I'm a long time Magic player I'm still pretty inexperienced at playing at Competitive REL. I did a much better job not missing triggers during the event and I'm getting more comfortable with the deck. V Clique was by far the MVP card of the deck...such a great card...and it flies...and has flash! I didn't miss Daze MB and I'm happy with 21 lands. Perhaps I will try 3x PI sometime but for now this will be the MB list I run for my next event.
Open to comments about the SB and my dumb plays!
As for the winnings...I got €70 (Netherlands) and used that to pick up 3x Polluted Deltas and 1x BitterBloosom(had to add a lil cash).
Last edited by sigmanugary; 09-15-2015 at 11:52 AM.
From my experience the problematic matchups tend to be ones running non blue or blue decks running sfm/tnn. We also struggle a lot with decks that just play a large amount of removal, although TNN has mitigated a bunch of that damage. Most delver decks are usually pretty favorable since our creatures get to be bigger and better than theirs although some timely 2 for 1s can easily set the game in your favor. I haven't really played the merfolk vs 4 color/grixis delver matchups, but I imagine that they are pretty favorable for the merfolk opponent specially if they are running chalice of the void. If you want to make your merfolk matchup a little better I would recommend running some extra removal spells like fire covenant, terminate, stuff of that nature and probably playing a jitte in the the board. Although I imagine that they might just have massive creatures before you have a chance to even connect with jitte.
Land looks incomplete.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
I would side out Forces instead of Catchers against Grixis Delver. The main plan is turn 1 Catcher into protected turn 2 Chalice (also with those 2 Dazes from the side). Chalice is that important. I wouldn't try to protect that plan with Force against Daze deck.
Additionally, you are playing the actual Counterspell so sideing out Vial against combo is not the best. Vial into Counterspell protection is good.
If you are that afraid that Relic will be countered so you hedged with 2 Crypts, I suggest Faerie Macabre in the sideboard. That always works and can even be Vialed in as necessary.
Did you always had UU for Counterspell? How were they during the tournament? Would you play them again?
Thx for the comments...I will check out Farie Macabre as a possible replacement for GY hate in the SB. As for the Counterspell questions...hmm, I don't ever remember feeling I had a serious problem keeping UU online. I used them a few times throughout the day and I never felt like it was a dead card. I vaguely recall catching some opponents off guard with it (especially game 1).
I will certainly play them again just like my V. Cliques in the main.
2 Clique was/is a staple for me, such a good card. I just don't know about Counterspell, I can't remember if I have cast it in the last 10 years :)
Maybe I should.
What does your list look like these days, Fanattic?
Based on sigmanugary's list I'm -2 Counterspell, -1 Chalice, +2 Echoing Truth, +1 Image, with -2 Island +2 Wasteland in the manabase. With such a low amount of permission I figure I'll want to bounce stuff at some point, hence the Truths.
Edit: Have you tested Harbinger of the Tides?
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
Something about the 'no strings attached' counter target spell does it for me...also I'm pretty budget minded so it works out well. My meta where I play is full of what I call 'Legit' Legacy decks where combo/unfair decks typically rule the roost and having hard counters is really a must.
My legacy scene is in, pardon me, crap, and I have to go to other countries for some nice legacy action.
This is why my list doesn't change much or why I am not writing more about it (or it works so no need for radical measures):
12 Island
4 Mutavault
2 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Phantasmal Image
2 Vendillion Clique
4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Echoing Truth
Sideboard:
3 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Submerge (can be 2 Dismember)
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
I haven't touched Harbinger in legacy. Other than Delver of Secrets there is nothing else I would want to return.
Delver is ubiquitous but not enough for me to tamper with my 75. Things might change, but for now I am not a believer.
There is a big-ish legacy tournament across the border next month. Maybe I'll have something to say.
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