[Deck] CounterSliver

[kicks_422]

Whew, I thought I was gonna get flamed for those Disrupts... Heh... I board it in much, usually against the mentioned black-based disruption and burn, the decks that we're supposed to play as the control part of aggro-control... I usually replace Stifle with it, as the decks I side it in against don't have much activated abilities to Stifle (i'll never Stifle the ablity of Negator... ) They've been great so far, it's just a matter of knowing when to board them in...

As for the 1 EE maindeck, as I mentioned, it's a placeholder... I'm never not happy when I draw it, but I'm making a mental checklist of what I wanted it to be more, either a Sliver, a Counterspell, or an Eladamri's Call... So far, nothing's standing out yet... I'll let you guys know when I come to a decision...

[Pinder]

Nah, apparently you only get flamed if you suggest Wasteland . Sorry about that Phantom, I think we were still a little hot headed from all the 'Hibernation Sliver' business that was going around....but the deck still can't support it either way .

Oh, and I just found out that Mav picked up a playset of foil Stifles(ZOMG!). I'm still crapping my pants. They're just so.....beautiful...*sniff*. We've also located a foil playset of both Daze and Serum Visions. Thanks Mav, for pimpin' my (our) deck!

As for the tourney, I narrowly avoided the mirror (finally), and I went 3-1.....technically. More details on that later. I can say that Slivers got plenty of playtesting against Iggy Pop, though. I'll have a full report up tomorrow.

And God, they're so shiny.

EDIT: Oh, and Mav and I decided last night that we think the deck should be called 'Short Bus'. See if you can figure out why .

[xsockmonkeyx]

EDIT: Oh, and Mav and I decided last night that we think the deck should be called 'Short Bus'. See if you can figure out why .

Because 1) Plate Sliver 2) Crystal Sliver 3)Muscle Sliver is retarded?

[Pinder]

Well, no, but that makes sense too . It's actually because Slivers (with their one arm) look like retarted kids. Or at least, me imitating a Sliver makes me look like a retarded kid. Yeah. And it also has the same appeal as the name Faerie Stompy. Who wants to say they lost to the Short Bus? Mostly we just like the name Short Bus.

But enough about deck naming, it's time for a tourney report (Yay!).

Slivers was run again last night, this time with me seated squarely behind the controls. Here's how it went:

Round 1: Random UB T2-ish Control Jank

Game 1: Goes pretty much like you'd expect. I counter a few Hyppies, a Bob, etc, play about 3-4 Slivers, and win.
-2 Engineered Explosives (most of his dudes were at 2cc)
+2 Worship
Game 2: I topdeck land FTL. 3 Fetches and 7 lands in I die.
Game 3: When you draw your first Sliver on turn 6 (in spite of 3 fetches and all that cantripping) while he has 2 Hyppies and a Dimir Guildmage on the table, there's not a whole lot you can do.

I later found out that this is the same deck that Mav drew 5 fetches and 10 land against. As such, I'm not counting this match as the matchup is obviously cursed .

Round 2: Iggy Pop (Mav)

Game 1: His lack of Leyline meant that I got FoW and Stifle back every time he played IGG. It wasn't pretty for him. I play a few Slivers, counter his spells, and swing FTW.
-2 Engineered Explosives
-1 Winged Sliver
-1 Talon Sliver
-4 Swords to Plowshares
+2 Null Rod
+2 Tormod's Crypt
+4 Meddling Mage
Game 2: I find that Mav has sided in 3 Defense Grids, and he manages to resolve one against me. But by then I had 2 Muscle Slivers, a Crystalline and a Plated Sliver. I held 4 mana open for Stifle and killed him over 2 turns. Didn't even get to use Null Rod or Mage.

Now, at this point Mav is 1-0 and I'm 0-1 (he got paired down against me), and in our tourney 3-1 might net you, oh, one pack or so, while 4-0 nets you about 8-9 on average. So on the hopes that he can go 4-0 (since I obviously wasn't), I give him the sweep. Normally this isn't done second round, but whatever. I later found out that Mav got paired against Woj (the other guy with Slivers) in the third round, the matchup I would have gotten had I not let him sweep. Now I'm just worried about getting hit by a bus or something for messing with fate . He eventually goes on to draw that round, but this report isn't about Iggy Pop, so I'll get back on topic:

Round 3: Red Fiery Gambit/Krark's Thumb/Goblins Combo (or something, I couldn't really tell)

Game 1: He plays some janky goblins, which I counter and Swords, my Slivers get huge and gain first strike, then I kill him dead. He did manage to hit me for 6 with a Gambit, though.
No sideboard
Game 2: I stall, drawing land and no Slivers for a few turns, but I manage to counter and swords enough of his stuff to stay alive and stabilize with first strike. Still, I'm at 3. He plays a Siege Gang, and I'm delighted to find 3 Stifles in my grip, and a blue mana open. No tokens for him. I draw into something pointless, and pass the turn to keep blockers open. On his turn, he double Brightstone Rituals for 6 mana (he has Siege Gang and 2 Skirk Recruiter), and sacs all 3 of his goblins to shoot me for 6 (he only needed to sac 2, but whatever floats his boat, I guess). I gleefully Stifle 2 of them, putting me at 1 life, then swing for the win next turn.

Round 4: RGSA
Game 1: I stifle a fetchland early game, and that wins me the game. Turns out all 4 of his Survivals were in the bottom 20 or so cards, and he never got to shuffle. I keep his dudes off the table and beat down.
-2 Engineered Explosives
-1 Talon Sliver
-1 Winged Sliver
-1 Plated Sliver
-1 Stifle
+4 Meddling Mages
+2 Pithing Needle (I only own 2, and Mav was using his )

Game 2: He's on the play, and manages to resovle a Survival before I can mage him, and pitches something for a Baloth to complement the one already in his hand. Then he topdecks another one. Luckily, I was gripping 3 StP, and had a Muscle and a Talon Sliver out. His Baloths eat my Swords one after another (well, he sacced them like a smart player, but you know), and then I brought down a Mage naming Eternal Witness. He plays a Deranged hermit at some point, but by then I had 4 first striking Slivers. His Hermit eats my final Swords and he chump blocks with all 4 of his squirrels. He draws land for a few turns while I swing in FTW.

So there you have it. I actually went 2-2, but technically I went 3-1, only losing to the random cursed UB matchup. Mav went 2-1-1, losing to Goblins in the 4th round, and didn't get any packs either. Shouldn't have given him the sweep, but oh well. A Sliver mirror would have made my brain explode anyway.

[Cavius The Great]

EDIT: Oh, and Mav and I decided last night that we think the deck should be called 'Short Bus'. See if you can figure out why .

Dude, using the name 'Short Bus' is probably copyright infringment. There's a dude at TMD that labels all his decks 'Short Bus' and I think his actual team uses that name also.

[Pinder]

Well, I guess Short Bus is out, then, if only because I don't want him stealing our credit .

Maybe we'll have to go with our second choice, 'Little One-Armed Bastards' .

Or we could actually call it 'Meat Hooks', I guess. It's as good as any other name. Just need to see if it sticks.

[Cavius The Great]

Well, I guess Short Bus is out, then, if only because I don't want him stealing our credit .

Maybe we'll have to go with our second choice, 'Little One-Armed Bastards' .

Or we could actually call it 'Meat Hooks', I guess. It's as good as any other name. Just need to see if it sticks.

I'm still trying to figure out how your decklist is any different from 'Counterslivers'.

[Pinder]

Apparently Counterslivers ran tainted pact or demonic consultation or something, and that made it waaaaaay too different to be also called Counterslivers. Our deck has counterspells and Slivers, so 'Countersliver' seems pretty descriptive to me, don't you think? Counterslivers has always seemed a fine name to me. Not as fine as 'Short Bus', but we can't use that, so whatever.

[Hanni]

Just call the deck what it is, U/W/g Slivers.

[Pinder]

I suppose we could do that. I'd almost rather have Countersliver though, it rolls off the tongue a bit better and still differentiates us from those horrible 5 color Sliver tribal decks .

[Maverick676]

Countersliver is a perfectly fine name for the deck. Just because we don't use the exact same cards it doesn't change the general strategy of the deck, It still revolves around crystaline sliver to protect your creatures so that you can save counters for your opponents key spells. A deck evolving to a better build does not mean it needs a new name. Does UGR Thresh need a new name since it runs different cards?

[Togit460]

I personally am quite taken with meat hooks, it rolls off the tongue in such a sexy way. Also saying that you won a tourney with meat hooks tends to completely terrify the unknowledgeable person standing next to you (i speak from experience). No time to report, not that i would anyways, but i ran your recent version of the deck pinder to a 4-0 at my local legacy tourney against nothing but tier 1 decks. (goblins, and thresh each x2)

[Volt]

I played CounterSliver at the Mana Curve 4xForce of Will tournament today. I wish I had some sexy results to report, but I don't. I scrubbed out 1-3. I beat Smart Goblins the first round, despite being horribly mana-flooded in two of the games. In the second round, I lost to NightShade, who was playing my Dryad Sligh deck (he had brought Golden Grahams to play, but forgot his Living Wishes at home, so I lent him one of my decks). I once again got horribly mana-flooded in two of the three games. What the Hell? In the third round, I got paired against The Rock, which as it turns out is an absolutely horrible matchup for CounterSliver. Duress, Therapy, Therapy, Pernicious Deed! Pernicious Deed again a couple turns later! Yay! Even though I was out of contention, I went ahead and played in the fourth round, since I had to wait around for NightShade anyway. I got paired against FrogBoy, who was playing 5c Tog. In the first game I got stuck on two lands for 4 turns, and couldnt mount an offensive. In the second game, I mulled down to 5 cards and pretty much got steamrolled. Aargh!

It was just a bad day. I had some bad matchups, and got repeatedly mana-screwed. On the positive side, after the tournament was over, I got in three games against Zilla, playing his Angel Stompy deck. They were loose games (Zilla is a blast to play magic with!), but I won two out of three. Angel Stompy owns Gro, but apparently has a lot more trouble with Slivers, especially once Crystalline hits the board.

EDIT: Btw, I'm just going to call the deck CounterSliver. You guys call it whatever you want. :)

[Maverick676]

Okay so I'm noticing a weird pattern with this deck. It seems to get mana flooded alot, As in more than is statistically normal. It seems like everyone's tournament report has at least one or two matches where they lose to mana flood. A deck the runs 17 lands and 8+ cantrips should almost never have a problem with mana flood or mana screw for that manner. In summary WTF!!!!!

Anyway everyones results against the decks to beat in legacy seem promising, and I think it's time we agreed upon a single list and moved this deck to the open forum.

[Cavius The Great]

Apparently Counterslivers ran tainted pact or demonic consultation or something, and that made it waaaaaay too different to be also called Counterslivers. Our deck has counterspells and Slivers, so 'Countersliver' seems pretty descriptive to me, don't you think? Counterslivers has always seemed a fine name to me. Not as fine as 'Short Bus', but we can't use that, so whatever.

Countersliver ran counters too bro, just like this deck. Duh, that's why they called it Counterslivers.

[Volt]

Okay so I'm noticing a weird pattern with this deck. It seems to get mana flooded alot, As in more than is statistically normal. It seems like everyone's tournament report has at least one or two matches where they lose to mana flood. A deck the runs 17 lands and 8+ cantrips should almost never have a problem with mana flood or mana screw for that manner. In summary WTF!!!!!

Anyway everyones results against the decks to beat in legacy seem promising, and I think it's time we agreed upon a single list and moved this deck to the open forum.

Yeah, I really just got hosed yesterday. In one of my games against Nightshade, I kept an opening hand with 3 lands. At the end of the game, I had drawn a total of 19 cards out of the deck, and 12 of them were land! I had 3 other games that were almost as bad, out of my first 6 of the day. It goes to show how strong our matchup against Goblins is, since I still won that match anyway.

Still, I wouldn't worry about mana-flooding. It really is just statistical variance. I have decided to cut back to 17 lands again, though. That way, I can fit the fourth Daze back in, which I've been missing since I cut it out. Good players will always play around Daze, but a fair number of the people you play against at these local tournaments are not good players.

[Volt]

Btw, I've been finding the Eladamri's Call to be quite handy. I strongly suggest making room for it. I've also found that it's not unusual to want to fetch a Savannah instead of a Tundra or Trop. With those things in mind, I would suggest this as a "final" list:

4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
4 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest

4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Plated Sliver
3 Talon Sliver
2 Winged Sliver
1 Eladamri's Call

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
1 Engineered Explosives


I asked Zilla about moving this thread to the open. He was strangely resistant to the idea, although he did concede that this might be a tier 1 deck. I think he wants to see a more complete write-up with more matchup analyses.

To clarify, the mods want to see a generally agreed-upon, optomized decklist, with a mini primer as a writeup before we move a thread into Open---frogboy

[Pinder]

I asked Zilla about moving this thread to the open. He was strangely resistant to the idea, although he did concede that this might be a tier 1 deck. I think he wants to see a more complete write-up with more matchup analyses.

I don't think it was all that strange that he was resistant to moving this into the open forum, as it still needs a bit of work. That, and we're having trouble agreeing on an optimal list (so far there seems to be mine and Mav's list, which runs EE over counterspell and 4 MD plated Sliver, and Volt's list, which runs the counterspells and cuts a Plated for a Call. It might just be the difference in metagames, though, because at any rate our lists are very similar). I agree that we probably need a more complete write-up (and perhaps a primer), and I think we also need to post some more definitive tourney results. Sure, most of our losses are due to some bizarre instance of mana flood, but we're still all over the place in terms of standings. A couple of 4-0's at local tourneys probably isn't enough to get into the Open at this point.

[xsockmonkeyx]

How terrible would Drop of Honey be in the SB?

Depending on the current oracle it could combo well with crystal sliver, muscle sliver, etc. If the oracle reads "target creature" it would be essentially destroy an opponant's creature every upkeep .


EDIT:(oracle wording)

Drop of Honey, enchantment

At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy the creature with the least power. It can't be regenerated. If two or more creatures are tied for least power, you choose one.
When there are no creatures in play, sacrifice Drop of Honey.

Meh, maybe not.

[Volt]

Unfortunately, Drop of Honey's effect is not targeted. Otherwise, yeah, that would be pretty terrific.