All B/R update speculation.

[Dice_Box]

For the record, I do not want all cantrips removed from the format in some daydream that making Legacy closer to Modern would be a good idea. My issue is not with Ponder, Preordain, Probe, Opt, Vision's or Peek. My issue is Brainstorm alone. The reason for that is how unbalanced it is when you put it up against these other cards. Instant, nets you access to up to three new cards, fixes opening hands with little to no cost and acts as a defence against Proactive Disruption. These are the things that bother me. I do not mind you looking at the top three cards with Ponder and then drawing each in kind. I have no issue with you doing that with Preordain either. Having instant access to all the tricks Brainstorm offers though at such a low cost, it tips the scales.

Now people can pull apart my views, belittle them, tell me I am a tool for them and say why not just playing the card or whatever else will get thrown around in this place, but that is my view. The issue is that you hold the Swiss army knife of cantrips and its just too bloody powerful. It's a mistake of a card printed to fix a bigger mistake of a card and we have seen time and time again how that works out. And why can not Ponder and Preordain not be enough anyway, its not like you can't still shit all over variance with those two cards open to you. Might not be as effective as before, but fuck it, if you want to play Chess, go play Chess. MTG ain't Chess and its better for it.

[Teveshszat]

Might not be as effective as before, but fuck it, if you want to play Chess, go play Chess. MTG ain't Chess and its better for it.

I for my part will not go and play a Game I no longer can win because the last time some one has beaten a Computer in chess is long gone and playing aagem without a chance of winning is
not that fun. Also low variance is nothing bad it keeps things like random mana flood or screw down and helps to actually be able to play a game of Magic and not sitting there and
being killed by the randomess that is the world of high variance.

[Ocean]

Sometimes reading opinions in this thread actually hurts.

But who cares about your feelings man.

[Barook]

The B&R announcement is this monday, right?

What do you expect?

I DO hope for a DTT ban, but quite frankly, I expect another round of no changes because Erik Lauer doesn't give a fuck.

[ironclad8690]

The B&R announcement is this monday, right?

What do you expect?

I DO hope for a DTT ban, but quite frankly, I expect another round of no changes because Erik Lauer doesn't give a fuck.

Hope for the best, expect the worst. No changes.

DTT ban would at least open the door for "Good Guy Hymn to Tourach" to re-enter the format in a meaningful way.

[Stevestamopz]

The B&R announcement is this monday, right?

What do you expect?

I DO hope for a DTT ban, but quite frankly, I expect another round of no changes because Erik Lauer doesn't give a fuck.

Given what they've been doing lately it wouldn't shock me if they banned Thalia and Life from the Loam and unbanned Treasure Cruise and Mystical Tutor.

[thefringthing]

My B/R List update wishlist:

Show and Tell banned. This card is too powerful for the format, keeps getting better, is abjectly miserable to play against, and is suppressing traditional non-blue aggressive strategies.
Dig Through Time banned. This has become too ubiquitous, and many games feel like they're decided by the first resolved Dig.
Survival of the Fittest unbanned. This needed to be banned when it was, and the deniers are idiots. Since then, however, Deathrite Shaman has become an ubiquitous maindeck answer.
Earthcraft unbanned. The squirrel combo isn't really that good. If the format can accept Empty the Warrens and Splinter Twin it can accept the squirrel combo too.

I think there are good and bad aspects to Brainstorm's role in Legacy, and I think banning it for one B/R List cycle might be interesting as an experiment.

[bakofried]

My B/R List update wishlist:

Show and Tell banned. This card is too powerful for the format, keeps getting better, is abjectly miserable to play against, and is suppressing traditional non-blue aggressive strategies.
Dig Through Time banned. This has become too ubiquitous, and many games feel like they're decided by the first resolved Dig.
Survival of the Fittest unbanned. This needed to be banned when it was, and the deniers are idiots. Since then, however, Deathrite Shaman has become an ubiquitous maindeck answer.
Earthcraft unbanned. The squirrel combo isn't really that good. If the format can accept Empty the Warrens and Splinter Twin it can accept the squirrel combo too.

I think there are good and bad aspects to Brainstorm's role in Legacy, and I think banning it for one B/R List cycle might be interesting as an experiment.

Honest question: if you unban Survival, is banning DTT necessary?

[Stevestamopz]

Honest question: if you unban Survival, is banning DTT necessary?

If they unbanned Survival and Recruiter... maybe it'd be even, maybe not. Only one way to find out I guess

[Dark Ritual]

My B/R List update wishlist:

Show and Tell banned. This card is too powerful for the format, keeps getting better, is abjectly miserable to play against, and is suppressing traditional non-blue aggressive strategies.
Dig Through Time banned. This has become too ubiquitous, and many games feel like they're decided by the first resolved Dig.
Survival of the Fittest unbanned. This needed to be banned when it was, and the deniers are idiots. Since then, however, Deathrite Shaman has become an ubiquitous maindeck answer.
Earthcraft unbanned. The squirrel combo isn't really that good. If the format can accept Empty the Warrens and Splinter Twin it can accept the squirrel combo too.

I think there are good and bad aspects to Brainstorm's role in Legacy, and I think banning it for one B/R List cycle might be interesting as an experiment.

Deathrite isn't close to a survival answer. Try it. Just try using deathrite shaman to win the game versus survival decks I dare you. Survival only gets better over time, which is partially why it was banned in the first place. It's hard to take you seriously when you didn't say to unban mind twist either because the card is shit.

[Lord Seth]

I for my part will not go and play a Game I no longer can win because the last time some one has beaten a Computer in chess is long gone and playing aagem without a chance of winning is
not that fun.

And how does the fact computers are better than humans make you playing again "without a chance of winning"? You could simply just play human players, which is what human players tend to do, so the problems with computers aren't relevant. This doesn't make sense to me.

But if computers beating humans is that big an issue to you, there's always Go. Same strategic depth (although too abstract for my tastes), but the best computers can't beat the best humans..

[jrsthethird]

Survival only gets better over time, which is partially why it was banned in the first place.

So does Brainstorm. ;)

[Zombie]

My B/R List update wishlist:

Show and Tell banned. This card is too powerful for the format, keeps getting better, is abjectly miserable to play against, and is suppressing traditional non-blue aggressive strategies.
Dig Through Time banned. This has become too ubiquitous, and many games feel like they're decided by the first resolved Dig.
Survival of the Fittest unbanned. This needed to be banned when it was, and the deniers are idiots. Since then, however, Deathrite Shaman has become an ubiquitous maindeck answer.
Earthcraft unbanned. The squirrel combo isn't really that good. If the format can accept Empty the Warrens and Splinter Twin it can accept the squirrel combo too.

I think there are good and bad aspects to Brainstorm's role in Legacy, and I think banning it for one B/R List cycle might be interesting as an experiment.

My wishlist:

Ban:
Emrakul, Griseltard, Jin-Gitaxias
DTT
Brainstorm
True-Name Nemesis
Council's Judgment

Unban:
Survival
Earthcraft
Mind Twist

Watchlist:
Survival, Vengevine, Mind Twist, Show and Tell

What I realistically hope:

Banned:
DTT

What I think will end up happening:

No changes.

[Quasim0ff]

My wishlist:

Ban:
Island

Fixed that for you.

[bruizar]

When mind twist gets unbanned, guess which color benefits? Blue... Misdirection :)

[Dice_Box]

When mind twist gets unbanned, guess which color benefits?

The same one that benefited from Dragon getting unbanned.

[Zombie]

Fixed that for you.

No?

[solidbass]

Ban Delver and DTT Erik Lauer!

[Lemnear]

Ban Delver and DTT and
Erik Lauer!

Fixed

[Dark Ritual]

So does Brainstorm. ;)

No, brainstorm does not just 'get better over time.' What cards have been introduced to make brainstorm better? You could argue miracles sure but what else. Thalia made brainstorm worse. Notion thief made it a little worse. The only time you could say brainstorm got substantially better is when allied fetches were introduced and later enemy fetches so you could run more fetches in a deck to take advantage of brainstorm more often by running more fetches. Otherwise brainstorm has been roughly the same card as it has been since 2001 as people misused it then and 14 years later people still misuse it. Survival only gets better because look at WotC's design philosophy. Tack everything onto creatures. Survival can tutor for any creature in magic. The hate that was present when it was legal and the hate that has been printed since then is not enough to keep it in check. RiP is blown up by qasali pridemage as per usual. Deathrite eats just one out of 4 vengevines and if you really want a tutorable answer to deathrite that is readily available as recently as BFZ in the form of wasteland strangler not to mention the multitude of other creatures present that can kill a 1/2 or shut it off (revoker.) Surgical gets cliqued away or if you want to go far back thrull surgeon.

Ban council's judgment is on your wishlist but not show and tell? Jin-gitaxias too? This is pathetic. The most bannable creature in legacy is griselbrand 2nd is TNN but will either get banned I doubt it.