Thrun is a great choice IMHO. I have been wanting to try him out, but the only thing holding me back is the resurgence of Black "sac stuff" cards. Liliana is a pretty good way to "counter" a Thrun, and still have a mana or 2 leftover the turn after you tap out for Thrun. It comes down to 1 flex spot for a green creature in the main deck and it will depend heavily on the meta.Originally Posted by Koby
-More discard/black decks?
Loxodon Smiter (hit by Inquisition of Kozilek, uncounterable and castable in G1 against Blue too)Wilt-Leaf Liege (good vs red, doesn't die to Abrupt DecayObstinate Baloth (dodges AD, lifegain for another Library activation if you run this aggro)Sigarda (expensive, hard to kill, trumps Liliana hardcore, great vs POX if you can ever get to 5 mana)
-Reanimator/Dredge || Deathrite Shaman is a 4x in every deck?
Scavenging Ooze (another one doesn't hurt if you don't run one already)
-More Miracles?
Loxodon Smiter (uncounterable)Thrun (uncounterable, can survive a Supreme Verdict)Qasali Pridemage (another one won't hurt vs Counterbalance and Exalted helps the clock)
-Fair/grind decks?
Sigarda (can fly yea!, expensive though)Eternal Witness (makes your threats better if the game goes long)Noble Hierarch (more mana ramp, exalted helps the clock)Thragtusk (expensive but great value, dodges Abrupt Decay, not great vs exile effects)Master of the Wild Hunt (extra creatures and removal baked into one card)
-Delver/XUX ShardlessAgent BalefulStrix decks?
Scryb Ranger (can block all day long, let's KotR work overtime)
-Combo running amock?
Gaddock Teeg (another one in the main doesn't hurt in specific metas)Wingmare/Thalia (clock, slows them down)
This is what always drew me to Maverick, the flexibility. Adding any of those creatures in G1 against the decks it isn't meant for is still probably fine at best. The creatures in Maverick are so value, that the tempo gained from Wasteland/Thalia just crushes fair decks. Meanwhile we can tweak the creatures to put a huge roadblock in the way for combo. If anyone has any creatures I missed, feel free to let me know. I love keeping this tracked in case I want to mix it up.
Nice list!
However, I'm not sure Thrun is that much better than Sigarda vs Miracles. About 60-80% of the times you'll be GSZ-ing for it, meaning it's not uncounterable. Once in play you can expect monk tokens or snapcasters or anything blocking it until they've Jaced/topped into a Terminus. Sigarda has a substantially higher offensive value and the uncounterability seems like a minor disadvantage due to GSZ. Depending on meta changes monk and elemental tokens make Thrun a generally weak threat. Smaller than goyf too.
Another interesting aspect of Sigarda, relevant with the expected return of Sneak'n Show, is that she gives you the option of chump blocking Emrakul all day long. This basically invalidates Sneak Attack + Emrakul as a win condition and lets you race a Show and Telled Emrakul.
I like Thrun in decks running heavy removal (i.e. Punishing Fire and sweepers) but otherwise less. Equipments and Mothers help of course, but Sigarda with equipment is so much better. To me, having played a lot of Nic Fit, totally different deck but still, Sigarda is often a major reason to play white. Thrun is the alternative that other color combinations have to settle for. It seems the arguments pro Sigarda are only stronger for Maverick.
I just wanted to add that it's not quite that simple, most times, in my experience. If the opponent has removal it is often spent on a frustrating Thalia that slows them down, Deathrite often eats bolts because... 1-mana planeswalker etc. KotR is a real threat and if they don't kill it they risk meeting Marit Lage. Titania is your tutorable Loam (a weak 50% loam that you'll have to bounce to get both lands back but still; and all else I wrote in the previous post) once the opponent has found an answer to Marit Lage. So as you see you are presenting a large amount of must answer threats. Now even if the opponent can kill Titania you are often able to get a land and 1-2 5/3's out of her. That's a 3 for 1 or even 4 for 1, and 5-10 power on the board even after Titania was destroyed.
I'm just saying it's not as simple as saying she's an x/3 creature who dies easily.
Just want to start out by saying, I absolutely appreciate everyone's input on this thread. I love playing Maverick, and I'm glad the deck hasn't been left to die in a corner.
Anyone have a SB they would like to share/really like?
This is what I'm currently running, but I don't know if I like it too much.
2x Abrupt Decay **took out of MB, though would like to possibly add back to MB**
2x Choke **Must have against U**
2x Ethersworn Canonist **Not really sure I care for her. My main gripe is that she's not tutorable,**
1x Gaddock Teeg **I would run 4 MB if it wasn't too much, so 1 SB is good for me**
2x Krosan Grip
2x Serenity **Reset button for Artifacts =) **
2x Surgical Extraction **Don't use it too much, but I don't think I'd take it out**
2x Zealous Persecution **Must have**
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons **Will be switching with Titania, Protector of Argoth, match depending**
Edit: spelling.
Last edited by Nik842; 10-07-2015 at 01:05 PM.
Sigarda vs. Emrakul just buys an extra turn or two? The Emrakul attacks the first turn, no blocks, no sacs from Annihilator, take 15 go to 5 (assuming 20 hp). 2nd turn, Emrakul attacks, no sacs from Annihilator, block Emrakul with Sigarda (couldn't attack with her unless you had another flyer back to block). Sigarda is now dead, Annihilator works next turn, and you are still at 5 hp with an Emrakul across the way. To me that just doesn't seem THAT great, kinda like putting a band-aid on an arm that got knocked clean off.... unless I am missing something in the interaction that allows otherwise. Most decks would only have 2 fliers, maybe 4 MAX; Sigarda, BoP, maybe Scryb Ranger, maybe Aven Mindcensor? As one ofs that seems kinda like a pipe dream to me.
My current board is as follows (and is going to be a little different because I am still stubborn and running only GW instead of GWb):
-1 Gaddock Teeg: combo, miracles, elves to a degree (stops N.O. and them getting Craterhoof unless it's in hand)
-1 Choke: blue decks/combo greedy mana base decks, RUG delver
-2 Holy Light: My card I have to answer TNN and Pyromancer tokens... I hate having this in my board, this alone makes me want Black... this and Abrupt Decay... and DRS.... and Zealous Pers... but for now I continue to be stubborn so this is here. This does NOT answer Mentor tokens in Miracles which is a big issues IMHO.
-1 Banishing Light: Sneak & Show, planeswalkers (Lilly, Jace in particular), etc. random big things I don't like
-1 Oblivion Ring: same as Banishing Light but I have a 1/1 split so it is harder to Cabal Therapy/Surgical Extraction/Meddling Mage/etc.etc.etc.etc.
-2 Pithing Needle: planeswalkers, Sneak & Show on Sneak Attack, Top in Miracles, certain elves in elves match, DRS (since I don't run any this is chill), Port, Aether Vial (Fish, D&T, etc.), Belcher, some Goblins, equipment like Batterskull (since I don't run one), a lot basically. I like Pithing Needle a lot, so I have 2 of them. I think it is a very flexible card and can be used in a NUMBER of situations. Again I like Maverick for its flexibility, and removing a sub par creature in G2 for a Pithing Needle you can be flexible with seems important to me.
-2 Krosan Grip: Miracles, Sneak & Show?, D&T for Revoker?, Batterskull in Stoneblade, the entire deck of Enchantress kinda, Shardless BUG runs lots of Artifact creatures so it is extra removal there, problem enchantments like Moat, Humility, etc.
-1 Bojuka Bog: Delver/Goyf decks, DRS, Nic Fit, Reanimator, Dredge
-1 Relic of Progenitus: See Bojuka Bog
-1 Tormod's Crypt: See Bojuka Bog
NOTE: I don't think I need this much graveyard hate since I have access to Scavening Ooze main, so I might be changing one of these, probably the Crypt.
-1 Ethersworn Canonist: Combo, Elves, red decks. I also am on the verge of cutting this since Teeg is just better and tutorable.
-1 Loxodon Smiter: Uncounterable vs Miracles, Discard from black decks, big body against decks with Bolt as the only removal, in conjunction with grave hate it can stop a Goyf
Last edited by oSeabass; 10-07-2015 at 12:26 PM. Reason: formatting
If you're going to force GW I have to make 2 sideboard suggestions:
1. Wilt-Leaf Liege. I assume you're just on Birds/Hierarchs so -1/-1 effects are huge blowouts in matchups that are otherwise even to favorable (namely Shardless and Deathblade, which I expect to become more popular). I've played Smiter before but I think WLL is better overall for the type of matchup you want that effect in. WLL also doesn't die to Decay and uncounterability loses relevance since they are probably boarding out Forces.
2. Crop Rotation (+ Stage/Depths). I played this in GW and it was a nice card to board against combo decks where you wanted "more copies" of Karakas/Bog, and can also enable some semblance of a clock against these decks with the right draw. Its also fine against MUD and 12-Post, where you just want all your lands to be Wastelands.
WLL makes sense there and it is a "Knight" for my Cavern on Knight anyway which is a nice bonus (I run 2 Caverns). You are correct on the Holy Day anti-synergy with my mana dorks (4 NH currently, was 3 NH/1 Bop). I like it not dying to AD.
I used to run a Crop Rotation back in the day when Maze of Ith was a staple land in the deck. I like Crop Rotation and it's always on the fringe for me. I might cut 1 graveyard hate card (I don't think I need Crypt, Bojuka Bog, and Relic) for it. I don't run a Cradle main anymore either since I don't have the space for it. I have always liked the Crop Rotation to get a blocker in Dryad Arbor, draw with Horizon Canopy, quick hate on Legendaries, wasteland stuff, make knight bigger, or even just find a Cavern for uncounterable XYZ.
So with 1 CR in board, you still suggest the Stage/Depths combo which I currently don't have in the 75. I am not sure where I would put those 2 cards right now and I don't think I have ever really needed them. I feel like in cases where I have an active + protected Knight, that will win me the game already after a few pressures value attacks. Also I don't like having the DD as a do nothing land draw without the Stage. Stage is fine in a vacuum since it can copy an opponent's land (Sol lands from S&S), be another Wasteland, whatever. My lands are more of a resource then normal since I also run Sylvan Safekeeper as another quick protection for a Mom (until she can tap) or any other important drop. Having 3 lands in play sometimes just doesn't happen (especially if 1 of them is a do nothing DD), and I find myself normally on 1-3 lands that are tight on mana anyway. Having an uncounterable 20/20 seems pretty sweet though.
For the record here is my current list I am running online. I try and keep it up to date whenever (and if ever) I stream. If I make changes online I try and keep this pastebin up to date.
I too have been very hesitant to splash B into the deck mainly because Bayous were expensive. Thankfully all of the expensive cards in the deck I was able to acquire by trading cards, I had purchased from an old coworker of mine for $100, into online sites and using store credit.
I got the following using online,trade-in credit:
2x Bayou
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Karakas (Italian)
2x Savannah
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Also though not in my MB, as of right now, both Abrupt Decays are included in this.
Only Scrubland was "cheap" on ebay.
So as you can see, a lot of my higher priced card were not out of pocket, otherwise I'd probably be playing burn, and I'm sure that has some high priced cards that I'm not aware of. Everything else I got super cheap before their prices skyrocketed. I'm looking at you Horizon Canopy $12 a piece, $20 a piece Wastelands, and $8 a piece Noble Hierarch (Why didn't I buy the set???).
Edit, A lot less words, and inclusion of more cards.
I play two deluges in my board, I hate losing to dude decks. Merfish, Elves, Delver, whatever deluge resets and most often my knight will live.
I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.
Soldier Stompy
For example: Sigarda + Thalia + Deathrite would deal 18 damage over two turns. More if you're getting scryb ranger for blocking (double deathrite activations). So if you can produce two chump blocking fliers during the first 4-5 turns of the game, apart from Sigarda, you are in a good spot. Gsz helps, of course. (If you have them [fliers] in your deck or not is up to you, personally I do. Separate discussion.) Compare this to having a Thrun in your hand for show and tell. I just wanted to mention this as a small benefit from Sigarda. Perhaps irrelevant. I guess KotR + Karakas and Gaddock help making this a pretty good matchup regardless.
Last edited by pettdan; 10-08-2015 at 12:32 PM.
I'm not going to advocate for Thrun or Sigarda because I personally don't like either, but I do want to point out that Thrun's uncounterability does become relevant if you ever have to bounce it with Karakas in response to something like a Terminus.
I like Thrun simply on the uncounterable and ability to regenerate plan, also costing less is a real nice benefit if you plan on GSZ for him.
I could see Sigarda being ok vs Black decks and Emrakul, and a Light/Shadow equipped Sigarda trades/trumps a Griselbrand. Sigarda flies over TNN which is nice.
They are both Legendary and Hexproof for Karakas on our side of the board.... I don't know. They both seem eh in spots but neither jump right out and make me feel like I need them. Part of me would rather just play like an Eternal Witness or a Kitchen Finks or some other 3 drop. 4 and 5 mana just seem like such a far reach sometimes without Cradle and already being WAY ahead on board. Like even me with no Black might even just consider throwing in a Bayou and 1 DRS just to have ZP in the board.
I tweak my board depending upon the room. Here is the "stock" setup
1 Teeg
2 Canonist
6 additional anti-combo/control
4 anti-swarm
2 meta-dependent
If the room is blue-heavy and/or lacks combo
1 Teeg
1 abrupt decay
3 anti-blue
5 anti-combo/control
5 anti-combo/control
When you want to next-level folks
1 Teeg
4 anti-combo/control
5 NO & NO targets (3 NO, 1 Progen, 1 additional ridiculous thing like Ruric Thar)
5 anti-swarm
***
Sorry if my classification is vague. Each category could be a handful of cards. I'm not married to any anti-combo card outside of Canonist and Teeg. I don't even think Thoughtseize is a requirement by default. The last SB config helped me win a last-chance grinder for byes last year at GP:NJ. People underestimate NO package being a thing (especially in a random-any-deck-can-win) situation.
I usually have 4 grave hate that double as things:
2 Rips/Relics/Nihil Spellbombs/etc..
2 Grafdigger's Cage
Cages are good enough (to side) for Elves and cantripping exilers are nice for lands or similar.
I'll say that Thalia/Wasteland/Discard often seem like enough vs. Dredge.. but I *really* hate the deck :p.
Dryad militant is a beating vs dredge and worth the slot if you expect it. It has applications in other combo matches as well
I like that she's GSZ-able; but I didn't have much success with it. Main-deck I could see it but when I tried it it didn't come up enough to want to fetch. Either I go for Scooze or I already lost.
I found that Militant, since it doesn't stop Ichorid, Bridge, or cards already in the grave; I felt it was too low impact.
I imagine it works pretty well if you get it in the opening hand; but we'd all rather have the bridge or probably have Spellbomb ya know?
I wouldn't mind hearing you elaborate why you like it; as I'd love to see the card work sometime.
What about Ground Seal? I know it is not GSZ-able, but my version I don't run DRS so I don't think I lose much by turning off the graveyard that way. Stops Snapcaster, Reanimator, DRS but doesn't reset the graveyard like Spellbomb/Crypt/Bojuka Bog/etc. I find DRS is an issue against me since I only have the 4 removal spells in StP in my GW version. GWb has ADecay to kill DRS, but I am left trying to be a little inventive :) (or once again I could stop being stubborn and just run black).
Whatever happened to Thomas Herzog? Is the man still a wizard?
Rest in peace, Grandpa Morphling.
Nemeses Slain:4
This is the reason why I brought him up actually. Both Sigarda and Thrun are typically GSZ targets that don't get colded by Jace, but Thrun can come back down unopposed after a board-wipe without worrying about CB locks or the rogue Counterspells.
Sigarda has other applications, too vs Sneak & Show and Liliana decks.
Thrun is for the Miracle heavy metas.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
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