I am trying to build a Dark Depths deck with a control role. I previously tried an aggro type of deck with 4 Vampire Hexmage and 4 Phyrexian Dreadnought, but it was really unstable. It could go really well, or die to your own deck!
What I am trying to build now is some kind of control with a fast finisher.
I would like to discuss if this deck has any chance in the meta.
The list:
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Smother
1 Ghastly Demise
1 Maelstorm Pulse
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
3 Dark Depths
6 Fetches
1 Urborg
2 Wasteland
2 Basic Lands
I will add some comments on my choices:
4 Tarmogoyf and 4 Hexmage: Both needed. One for the combo, the other is just nuts! One problem of the deck is that it has just 8 creatures for now. How can we solve it? (2 Vendillion Cliques would be great in here)
I tried Dark Confidant and I know he is a power house, but I wouldn't run him with all the aggro decks around (minor problem) and I didn't know what to cut for him.
4 Force of Will, 3 Daze, 3 Spell Pierce, 4 Counterbalance: I love this combination of counterspells. It's very effective.
4 Brainstorm, 2 Ponder, 3 Sensei's Divining Top: the cantrips. I added the 2 ponders because this deck wants a lot of manipulation and because I needed 20 blue cards to support Force of Will.
3 Pernicious Deed, 3 Smother, 1 Ghastly Demise, 1 Maelstorm Pulse: first of, the split is made for a better counterbalance curve (currently 21 drops at 0, 13 drops at 1, 18 drops at 2, 4 drops at 3 and 4 drops at 5).
I know many of you will think: what?? Pernicious Deed and Counterbalance together? They are anti-synergistic! And they are, but I think that with all the aggro and low cost permanents running around it's a good choice.
There are 5 single removals in the main and 3 board sweepers, so we should manage to keep aggro down until a CB landsor a 20/20 fattie and then it should be much more easier.
21 Lands: the configuration sucks, I know. Too many non basics, 3 that don't give mana unless Urborg is on the table and 2 that give uncolored mana (wasteland) in a deck that needs UU for CB and BB for Hexmage. This is a problem that we must try and solve.
I wanted to add Crop Rotation to smooth the deck's manabase, but didn't have slots and with all those cantrips I think that the deck is able to find the right land when you need it.
Btw I added 2 Wasteland because of the Depth's weakness to other Wastelands.
Currently there is no sideboard, that is a secondary problem. First we have to optimize the main!
If you have suggestions on some cards you would like to add, or to cut please suggest!
Is my idea so awful that there are no replies?
I was trying to work a deck with Crop Rotation and Hexmage, but it never really got off the ground. What i can say, though, while testing it, is that Crop Rotation can be nuts! With Bojuka Bog, it's the best grave hate you can ask for (instant-speed without a Trap restriction), and with Karakas you can easily answer an Iona (also good combo with Vendilion Clique to be able to steal all of your opponent's good draws).
If you add Crop Rotation, I would suggest going down to 2 Depths and swapping a fetch for a Bog. I don't know what else to take out for them but I think it's a really powerful card. Then you can put a second Bog and a Karakas in the sideboard, maybe Maze of Ith or Tabernacle as well in the board.
To me it doesn't seem like this deck needs wasteland. I play BG Depths in extended right now and believe me you really really want to draw urborg. I don't know how transmuters do in legacy because I have never played them but shred memory is a house for me in extended and I think an uncounterable tutor for counterbalance, daze, smother, goyf, or hexmage is pretty good. It also seems to me that deed is a bit unnecessary in the main deck. I would probably add either some duress or thoughtseize in its place because it is very good to strip the StP or PtE from your opponents hand before making a 20/20. Also if you add the transmuter you might want to add 1 rite of consumption to completely disregard those cards.
My list (BUG dark depths)
3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Jace, the mind Sculptor
2 Ponder
2 Living Wish
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
1 Lim Dul's Vault
2 Spell Snare
4 FoW
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Dark Depths
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Urborg
1 Bayou
4 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
Sideboard
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Llawan Cephalid Empress
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Dark Depths
1 Gilded Drake
1 Karakas
2 Perish
I think my deck is pretty good, maybe Tier 1.5, but can't get ahead when I am mana screwed. I find this deck gets mana screwed at least 20% of the games I play. I also find that I also lose badly to swarming aggro backed with counterspells or burn. Moon effects are also quite a beating (2nd round). The sideboard is a little strange (trying to optimize toolbox with Living Wish in mind), I'll probably get rid of the Empress and add in another Deed (?). I also may board in pithing needles for wasteland, but I'm not sure what to take out.
In order to be able to beat Moon effects, I'll have to change the mana base around a bit, another island and swamp? get rid of the forest? not sure. There is also the theoretical position someone can take on this deck, where this build may be a bit more controlling, someone may want to take a more comboish route.
I played in a small tourney sunday, beating zoo 2-0 (very close), eva green 2-0 (not close), and monoblack aggro 2-0(not close). i lose to merfolk 2-1 (deed helps alot here/mana screw and islandwalkers) and painters servant 2-0 (mana screw and a misplay).
Let me know if you want to know about how the matches went and cards played a role in each match.
This is the last list I played. Done top 8 in a 20ish people tourney.
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
3 Smother
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Drak Depths
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
5 Fetches
Side:
3 Beb
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Berserk
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Faerie Macabre
Win 2-1 against UW Control
Draw 1-1 against Landstill
Win 2-0 Against Dragon Stompy
Win 2-1 Against Reanimator
ID to enter top 8
Lose 0-2 against a friend playing a 1000 answer deck (colors BUG)
Team Stimato
Originally Posted by Julian23
He told you a foil from Time Spiral was Summer?
This man must be a Jedi.
I would like to reopen this thread but start taking the deck another direction. I became interested in BUG Depths once I saw Lincoln Baxter III do well in some SCG legacy events:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=90065
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=92091
Since then Dig Through Time has been banned but I have decided to stick with the deck.
Here is my current list:
Maindeck:
Artifacts
4 Mox Diamond
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Engineered Explosives
Instants
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
2 Crop Rotation
3 Force of Will
2 Intuition
1 Spell Pierce
Creatures
1 Nether Spirit
Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library
Planeswalkers
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
Sorceries
2 Life from the Loam
2 Smallpox
2 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ponder
Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Swamp
Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bayou
1 Cabal Pit
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Maze of Ith
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
Legendary Lands
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Legendary Snow Lands
1 Dark Depths
Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Massacre
1 Hydroblast
1 Batterskull
1 Krosan Grip
2 Flusterstorm
1 Disfigure
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Force of Will
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Thoughtsieze
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
I tend to describe this deck as BUG control + RUG lands + Jund Depths as it has elements of each. Essentially I wanted to play abrupt decay, brainstorm, and force of will and mox diamond. So I am led to BUG colours. I have played RUG lands for a while which is very good but obviously weak to combo so I pretty much abandoned it during the Omni-tell reign of terror. So if we look back prior to the release of Khans of Tarkir the most dominant decks were True Named Nemesis / stoneblade decks. So I think a Jund depths style deck with one for ones and tonnes of value is really well positioned. Observe a list which was made pretty popular by Kennen Haas:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...nd-Depths.html
The above list is similar in 'style' as it is not running any exploration effects and playing a toolbox with Intuition over Entomb to up the blue count for FOW. The biggest issue is that we are not playing a Punishing Fire + Grove of the Burnwillows package. I know that some RUG lands lists run very small splashes like 2-2 pfire+grove ... but due to the heavy mana restrictions such as brainstorm, lili, thoughtsieze, crop rotation combined with the presence of colourless lands or lands that don't tap for mana, I found that it was just not feasible to add that package as well. This is what led to card choices such as Cursed Scroll, Cabal Pit, EE plus some sideboard options like the miser disfigure and some board wipes. Disfigure is mainly a concession to Deathrite Shaman. I have to say in the few weeks that I was playing this deck...Cabal Pit did some serious work.
Disruption:
I decided on the 3 FOW plan as it can be too much card disadvantage. Also...the blue card count is not as high as I would like. I found that the one of spell pierce really did work in both the late and early games. Spell pierce is just such a strong card and I would even play more if I could find room. The one of Counterspell is also nice and the ability to play it off a Mox turn one also helps you stabilize and gain that extra turn. I toyed around with the idea of playing Forbid as it has some synergy in a Life from the Loam deck. Late game you can essentially get them in a lock. But the three mana CMC is just too high for the match ups that you need a counterspell. I am actually going to try forbid tomorrow so I will report back. The only other main deck disruption is the two of thoughtsieze. I did like the ravens crime in the Jund Depths deck. But since we are trying to improve the combo match ups I find that just playing thoughtsieze is better. The sideboard has quite a few cards dedicated to combo. 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Thoughtsieze, 1 Force of Will, occasionally hydroblast.
Removal:
EE, Cursed Scroll, Cabal Pit, Abrupt Decay, Jace, Lili, Smallpox, Maelstrom Pulse, (tabernacle)
First off I really liked the 2-2 split of Jace-Lili. I was running a singleton Jace Vryn's Prodigy which was really good being able to flashback smallpox, abrupt decay, crop rotation, brainstorm etc. However, I decided to cut him for the Nether Spirit. I am considering playing a third Liliana and the ravens crime ...but I think it would hurt the blue count in the deck. But obviously more Lili is great when playing cursed scroll.
EE, Cursed Scroll are great as EE is a great answer for a variety of things and Cursed scroll functions as our punishing fire / the slow win condition. Both are work with Academy Ruins.
Cabal pit as I mentioned before did a tonne of work and removal that loops with Life from the Loam.
I decided to go with the 3-1 split of Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse. This might be wrong and I am considering adding the fourth decay and moving the pulse to the board perhaps in place of the disfigure. The disfigure worked well with Vryn's Prodigy but not so much by itself.
Draw/Card Advantage:
I really wanted to play 4 Brainstorms as one of the issues I have had with Land shells / Aggro Loam is the lack of library manipulation. I would like to run more ponders but just one for now. 2 JTMS is great as he can really help take over the game and just drown the opponent in card advantage. Obviously it seems strange to play JTMS and LOTV and you are kind of negating yourself. But with Life from the Loam you are able to make this work. Sylvan Library is another card that I find just wins game if landed early. It does not work too well with EE but I find it helps find answers and just have consistently better selection that your opponent. I think it is one of the strongest cards and I needed to make room for at least one. If you are playing Mox Diamond it also gives you another thing to do on T1. It is strange playing Cursed scroll with card advantage engines. But in certain situations it is great. it is at the top of the list for getting cut but I am still trying it out. (Cursed Scroll that is)
Win conditions:
1) Thespian Stage + Dark Depths
2) Creeping Tar Pit (Which I find is very strong right now ... and you can use cabal pit to save it from swords)
3) Cursed Scroll
4) Nether Spirit
5) Jace The Mind Sculptor
6) Batterskull in the SB
1) Can quickly win games and some decks have no answers. Essentially try and control the game and assemble Marit Lage
2) Creeping Tar Pit is great against miracles and opposing planeswalkers
3) Cursed scroll helps keep the board clean and slow grind win condition which you can buy back with Academy Ruins
4) Nether Spirit serves as a great blocker to help you stabilize (don't forget to pay for Tabernacle) and can beat down if need be. Long time staple in Pox - Win conditions.
5) JTMS - Nothing more to say.
6) I am just trying out the batterskull.
Notable Lands:
Creeping Tar Pit, Maze of Ith, Tabernacle, Wasteland, Dark Depths, Thespian Stage, Academy Ruins, Cabal Pit. The rest of the mana base is pretty standard. I would like to have a sixth fetch but could not find the room. (I find not having enough room is a classic problem in Prison/Lands strategies)
Things to consider:
1) Cutting cused scroll - a little too situational and poor synergy with a few things in the deck.
2) Adding the 4th abrupt decay and moving the pulse to the board
3) Adding an extra intuition to up the blue count and improve consistency ... I do not like 3 crop rotations as you have to sac the land as part of the cost.
4) How many ponders
5) Should the deck go heavier on discard? Ravens crime + extra Lili?
7) Cut the Academy Ruins + EE/Scroll package all together? too slow? Add a second EE?
SB Options:
1 Force of Will
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Thoughtsieze
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Krosan Grip
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
I feel like this are 100% in. Which leaves 6 extra slots:
1 Pithing Needle - Just too good. Can name so many things. Turn off grindstone, planeswalkers, vials, wasteland even...
1 Massacre - I find D&T is one of the worst match ups. Since we are playing EE we can't really play dread of night which I think is better. If I end up cutting the EE academy ruins package dread of night is 100% coming back.
1 Hydroblast - helps in burn match up, sneak and show, counters pyroblasts for our jace. (not really sold on this but trying it) .. The spot was a Chill to help with burn but again because of EE I cut it.
1 Batterskull - Just a big beater that is recurable with Academy ruins
1 Krosan Grip - Hits a lot of things. Blood Moon, Tops, Counterblances etc. Too good.
2 Flusterstorm - Obvioulsy
1 Disfigure - Get out of here Deathrite also I find Vendillion Clique pretty disruptive.
1 Nihil Spellbomb - GY hate that can be brought back with academy ruins. I had two surgical extractions before when running Vryn's prodigy.
1 Tormod's Crypt - GY hate a turn earlier. Perhaps I could just play 2 Leyline of the Void instead.
1 Force of Will - Against combo
1 Toxic Deluge - Need a board wipe
1 Thoughtsieze - Against combo
1 Bojuka Bog - Just a great land ... I would even consider playing it main.
1 Karakas - Any lands shell or a deck playing crop rotation needs a karakas. Sneak and Show is gaining in popularity so hopefully it will be good.
That is all for now. I will be playing this list tomorrow at our local Legacy night.
/c
Last edited by cchalc; 11-10-2015 at 03:30 PM.
Some extra things that I would like to consider:
1) Adding a Dimir Charm - either main or in the board. Works really well. Can set up a draw, counter a sorcery, or even kill a pesky creature like DRS. Seems very versatile and I like this a lot.
2) Maybe a 1 of Fact or Fiction instead of the Ponder. I am trying to think what will have more impact in the late game. This I am unsure of.
3) Night of Souls Betrayal in the SB.
Revised SB could be:
Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Night of Souls Betrayal (Replacing Massacre)
1 Dimir Charm (Replacing Hydroblast)
1 Batterskull
1 Maelstrom Pulse (Replacing Krosan Grip and playing the 4th Abrupt Decay in place of the Pulse)
2 Flusterstorm
1 Disfigure
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Force of Will
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Thoughtsieze
1 Bojuka Bog ............ Since this is playable main I am really considering moving it as it would free up a SB slot. Cutting another fetch does not seem right though considering the brainstorm effects.
1 Karakas
Lastly I think it could be cool to play a Lonely Sandbar (Onslaught blue cycling land) in the maindeck.
/c
I've been trying to brew some kind of combo-oriented BUG Depths deck for a while now. I'm envisioning something that can quickly assemble a Depths combo (via either Hexmage or Stage) with cantrips and Mox/Loam/Intuition shenanigans, all with Force backup. I haven't been able to come up with a list that even goldfishes satisfyingly though.
Baxter's list conceptually looks very solid, so maybe a controlling build is the way to go.
The deck seems clunky. Sure, play planes walkers but not those ones. Jace is too slow and liliana conflicts with your strategy to hold counterspells in your hand. If you have her out you are not likely to be discarding. Furthermore, the people actively working on a list have been unable to produce a non clunky control list. Maybe we didn't work hard enough at it but your control needs to be within the first couple of turns since you want to survive long enough to be able play the required land pieces. Control gained after T3 / T4 needs to be different. If the game goes past those turns its usually because you are facing a karakas + wasteland and or swords / bounce.
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
Hey Christian (and everyone),
Thanks for getting this thread rolling and motivating me to post something. I didn't even know there was a Thread for "BUG Depths". I'd argue that my build is significantly different in that it attempts to win entirely without traditional creatures, and I'm undecided as to which I think my deck fits into better: BUG Lands ("Suicide Lands" or "Lands?" as I call it), or BUG Depths/BUG Control, but below is the list I've been running lately. I've called it "Suicide Lands" because you frequently loam good cards into the Graveyard and Discard good cards to liliana in order to edge out the advantage. That is in part one reason for the high duplication of cards like Jace and Abrupt Decay. You also frequently Crop Rotate and Combo at EoT for the win on Turn 3 or 4, leaving you with just two lands left - hence "Suicide Lands".
I'm hesitant to label this deck as "BUG Depths" because it really plays a lot like Lands and BUG Control put together. It focuses in on a much more Win or Lose (all-in) strategy, with just enough control to keep the opponent off-balance to get a Jace & Liliana online (which can win games and grind opponents out), but can also play aggressive enough so that it can win out of nowhere like a combo deck and beat the burn/aggro-type matchups where speed is necessary. I built this deck because I hate the creature-style play of Standard/Modern, and I've always loved Lands, and the power they can produce.
Losing Dig Through Time
Adjusting the deck for the post-Dig Through Time meta has been interesting, which has lead me to cut a few underperforming cards and increase the density of answers such as Abrupt Decay and Thoughtseize. Cards I cut namely being the counterspells/spell-pierces, favoring the proactive Thoughtseize and Crop Rotation. This is due to the fact that holding up (UU) to cast spells on your opponents turn is much less attractive without a card like Dig Through Time to bait out counterspells (or resolve for value.) Intuition fills this role nicely as well, but means that more care must be taken to avoid graveyard hate. DTT will sorely be missed, but the deck still feels strong without it. I've also had to shore up the mana-base, which led me to take out the sometimes great but sometimes underwhelming rishadan ports. Without an Exploration effect, they are difficult to take advantage of, but can be a determining factor in matchups like Miracles or Stoneblade when you really need to neutralize the white mana in order to close out the game. Ghost quarter in the board (or possibly maindeck if room can be made,) is an option here. Simply eat up the white mana, then go. Ghost quarter can also be a bonus against the more difficult RUG/BUG tempo decks, and things like 12-post, MUD, and Maverick. Other cards I would consider playing to shore up consistency are Entomb and Living Wish, however, those are slow, potentially card disadvantage without Loam, and counterspell bait. Entomb also suffers from graveyard hate, and I think the deck relies on the graveyard enough to warrant seeking non-GY options, like Ponder or Sensei's Divining Top, which has a very nice interaction with Life From the Loam. (Sensei's top might be a nice addition for lists that play Academy Ruins as well, but again, it is slower, and speed is an issue in certain matchups.)
Crop rotation
This is where crop-rotation comes in to play, enabling the non-GY Turn 3 Marit Lage (or the late game thoughtseize, pass-turn, EOT Crop Rotation for the win.) Crop rotation powers not only the win, but also the sideboard and the maindeck hate/removal such as Bojuka Bog and Cabal Pit. Against decks that do not run much GY hate, or that don't see it. Loam and Wasteland can win the game alone. Decks like MUD and 12-post actually just can't win with Loam/Wasteland in play as you'll see in the stats.
Playing with Mox Diamond
I consider Mox Diamond to be a crucial part of the deck. It bricks wasteland to a large extent, plays around blood moon, accelerates Liliana, Jace, Smallpox, Abrupt Decay, Intuition, and the Combo. Value is recouped with Loam, and can power out a turn 2 Loam/Wasteland lock that is difficult to recover from. In short, the acceleration/ramp into things like Liliana, Jace, and Intuition is something that some decks struggle to fight. Sometimes holding the diamond in hand for a turn before deploying can throw the opponent and lure them into tapping out on turn 1 before they've seen the deck. One of the advantages here is that the deck can "pretend" to be many decks. Lands, Shardless, Delver, Random Blue or Black deck, etc. This is not a trivial game one advantage, so don't play the Mox too soon unless you want to be able to play an EoT Abrupt decay or Brainstorm + Fetch.
The list
========================================================
4 Mox Diamond
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Crop Rotation
3 Force of Will
3 Intuition
2 Ponder
2 Life from the Loam
3 Thoughtseize
2 Smallpox
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Wasteland
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Chill
SB: 2 Dread of Night
SB: 2 Drop of Honey
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Innocent Blood
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 2 Zombie Infestation
SB: 1 Force of Will
1 Marit Lage
========================================================
This deck has a number of strengths. It is competitive with most decks, and I have collected a significant amount of data since constructing it.
Stats and analytics:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Excellent matchups:
Fair decks, stoneblade, MUD, mana-greedy decks, Nic Fit, POX, Maverick
Rough matchups:
Burn, Death and Taxes, RUG Delver, Storm, Mono-Red Sneak attack
Need more data:
Elves, Merfolk, Shardless BUG, Stoneblade, Deathblade, Dark Maverick
The difficulty with this deck is knowing which strategy to play. Do you think you opponent has a Swords to Plowshares? Maybe don't go all-in and rotate your lands for the combo, maybe rotate into a wasteland or cabal pit to keep them off-balance or lock them out of the game. Is your opponent on RUG Delver? When do you go for the combo and when do you stall? This is why Thoughtseize is critical for the deck. It either removes a counterspell or gives you the all-clear.
Another issue the deck faces is the relative ease with which the combo can be disrupted. Wasteland, Karakas, Blood Moon, Pithing Needle, and even a blocker + Jace or Liliana can be issues. Submerge is a problem. Even Maze of Ith.
Alternate win conditions:
The relatively disrupt-able combo has led me to search for alternate non-traditional win conditions. The current card I am playing with is Zombie infestation because it survives Smallpox, and can slowly and steadily fill the board with zombies. With Loam active, it nets 1.5 zombies per turn, and with Jace active, it's 1 zombie per turn. Jace needs some other kind of pressure to really close out games effectively. This might be it. Nether spirit is another options, but again, I hesitate to bring in a card that is weak to the graveyard and still suffers from Swords/Terminus. This is not true with Zombie Infestation (I'd really love to get access to Seismic Assault or Molten Vortex, but splashing Red and going 4 color is a bit deep).
Christian has also suggested batterskull as an alternative, and for lists that run Academy Ruins I can see this as a viable option, but at CMC 5, Batterskull is non-trivial to achieve. Putting it back on the top of the deck is also slow and can quickly lead to being tempo'd out.
The ultimate test of the deck is, in my opinion, RUG Delver and the Aggro decks. Combo decks can be dealt with rather easily with the battery of Thoughtseize and Counterspells in from the board.
Cheers,
~Lincoln Baxter, III
So I played the above list at a local Legacy night here in Calgary where a lot of people are preparing for the upcoming GP SeaTac.
Round1: RUG Delver - Beat pretty hard both games. They were able to stifle Lili and Wasteland Maze for the win. Nether spirit was pretty good as it was able to block Goyf for a turn or two.
Round2: Miracles - He apparently plays an enlightened tutor package for 1 of's main. 1 Blood Moon, 1 Moat, 1 EE ... seemed pretty bad. But he was able to land a blood moon early with only two islands and a volcanic. He resolved a tonne of things including top / counterbalance. The game took forever as I had to draw to find Abrupt Decay without any library manipulation due to the top/counterbalance lock. The game ended with me finding abrupt decay for blood moon, decaying it at end step, making a 20/20, putting EE on top of my library for a JTMS ready to ultimate. I swung in, obviously terminus. I play EE for 4. He has a force, I force back, he forces back. Game over. He wins 1-0.
Round3: Burn - With the board I have I had almost no chance. He won the die roll. I almost managed to make Marit Lage but he was a turn too early. This match up is almost impossible in my opinion.
Round4: 4 colour Delver - In my opening hand I have a mox, a bunch of lands and Jace x 2. I essentially just played spells and Made him answer Jace, Lili, etc to set up a crop rotation for DD. However, he seemed to have infinite DRS ...he was a little unfamiliar as he did not eat the Thespian stage after it got wastelanded. He had DRS, Grim lavamancer on board. I play Lili and tick down. He activated DRS to drain for two. I crop rotation for cabal pit to kill DRS. Drain happens, he lavamancers lili and I proceed to wastland him out of the game before setting up DD/TS.
I agree the deck is very clunky. The cursed scroll is 100% getting cut. Cute but just does not cut it. I think I am going to cut the academy ruins, EE, cursed scroll and add a ponder, intuition, and a lonely sandbar.
I will have to cut the batterskull from the board as well.
New list:
Maindeck:
Artifacts
4 Mox Diamond
Instants
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
2 Crop Rotation
3 Force of Will
2 Intuition
1 Spell Pierce
Creatures
1 Nether Spirit
Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library
Planeswalkers
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
Sorceries
2 Life from the Loam
2 Smallpox
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Swamp
Lands
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Bayou
1 Cabal Pit
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Maze of Ith
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
Legendary Lands
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Legendary Snow Lands
1 Dark Depths
Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
1 Dimir Charm
1 Golgari Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Flusterstorm
1 Disfigure
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Force of Will
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Thoughtsieze
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
This is interesting. Which matches would you bring this in?
Just wondering: why DD/ Stage-combo in a BUG-shell?
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Because of Force of Will, Jace the Mind Sculptor, Liliana of the Veil, Thoughtseize, Loam, Smallpox, Abrupt Decay, and 20/20s.
That's the real question. I'm not entirely sure. Miracles for sure. Possibly Shardless BUG. I haven't had a lot of time to try it out.
Now that the Manabase is a bit more secure without the Ports, it's possible that I could try adding the tar-pit back in, but that feels like an awefully slow and unsteady way to win the race when swords-to-plowshares is running rampant. Surely works better in a non-white matchup.
I think Creeping Tar Pit is 100% necessary as it serves as an alternate win condition and takes care of JTMS.
I do like tar-pit as an EOT crop rotation target to kill JTMS. That's why I had originally included it in the list, so I think it's worth adding back in - though the ratio of "Comes into play tapped" lands is getting a bit high for comfort. Also, I wouldn't short-change crop-rotation just because it sacs a land - the deck runs 25 lands for a reason. Hence why I called it "Suicide Lands" :)
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