[Deck] 12 Post

[mykatdied]

I (playing Gw) have been finding Hangarback Walker excellent against Shardless, and to a lesser extent against nonwhite Delver. It blocks, then blocks some more while providing a means (thopters) to pressure planeswalkers without expending a needle. Not to mention that it makes Liliana awkward. With Eye and 9 mana it provides an on-the-spot blocker unlike every other Eye target in the deck under those conditions.

Has anyone tested with Solemn Simulacrum? Bridging the gap from ~4 mana to Titan/Zenith levels has been a sticking point in many of my games and Oracle is less consistent than I'd really like. Solemn also helps while under Blood Moon, draws a card, and shuffles.

Hangarback Walker is quite an interesting idea that I thought of but never really decided to follow up on. A few reasons why:
1. Terminus - Miracles is one of the most popular decks currently in the format.
2. Swords to Plowshares - Of course Miracles runs this card as well. It also won't really help against JTMS or Venser in that match up.
3. Even against Shardless they do have the out of Toxic Deluge or Maelstrom Pulse to answer all of the Thopters created when it dies, they also have JTMS as well and it just doesn't seem like a great out to the most played deck of day 2 GP Seattle-Tacoma
4. It is really slow from what I have watched in Standard coverage.
5. Council's Judgement - There are enough decks that will run this against us regardless to answer Ugin, Emrakul, etc.
6. Death and Taxes - Being popular right now, they run 4 Swords to Plowshares and 3/4 Flickerwisp. I am sure they would love for us to play something like a Hangarback Walker and invest into it rather than a real threat.

On Solemn Simulacrum:
That may not be a terrible idea. It does bridge the gap between dropping Pithing Needle, Sensei's Divining Top and going into Primeval Titan. I suppose my main concern for it would be due to exiling effects we would not get to draw the card and a 4 mana rampant growth feels bad. If we wanted an effect like that we could go back in time to John Kassari's (user Ehhh) first build I saw where he ran Snow-Covered Forests, Dark Depths and Into the North as a way to ramp and get the Stage/Depths combo online early and easy. It may not be horrible, but I still think I prefer to have plays like turn 1 Top, turn 2 Explore, turn 3 possible Titan over anything involving Solemn. It may not be bad, but it could certainly be interesting.

[Rock Lee]

After some rather hilarious raging at mono green testing, I settled on a list that is treating me well:

// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 [SOM] Trinket Mage

// Spells
2 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [TSP] Trickbind

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [NPH] Beast Within
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will

[k_omega]

Hangarback Walker is quite an interesting idea that I thought of but never really decided to follow up on. A few reasons why:
1. Terminus - Miracles is one of the most popular decks currently in the format.
2. Swords to Plowshares - Of course Miracles runs this card as well. It also won't really help against JTMS or Venser in that match up.
3. Even against Shardless they do have the out of Toxic Deluge or Maelstrom Pulse to answer all of the Thopters created when it dies, they also have JTMS as well and it just doesn't seem like a great out to the most played deck of day 2 GP Seattle-Tacoma
4. It is really slow from what I have watched in Standard coverage.
5. Council's Judgement - There are enough decks that will run this against us regardless to answer Ugin, Emrakul, etc.
6. Death and Taxes - Being popular right now, they run 4 Swords to Plowshares and 3/4 Flickerwisp. I am sure they would love for us to play something like a Hangarback Walker and invest into it rather than a real threat.

I actually maindecked Hangarback in an event about a month ago and noticed many of these same problems. I've since moved it into the sideboard and don't even bother bringing it in against decks with exiling removal (perhaps I should have mentioned that at the start, though it is why I stipulated nonwhite delver). I view it as a speed bump against BUG that can also be a threat if drawn late.

In my games, Hangarback and its thopters usually die before Jace or the 1-of Deluges and Pulses arrive on the scene.

On Solemn Simulacrum:
That may not be a terrible idea. It does bridge the gap between dropping Pithing Needle, Sensei's Divining Top and going into Primeval Titan. I suppose my main concern for it would be due to exiling effects we would not get to draw the card and a 4 mana rampant growth feels bad. If we wanted an effect like that we could go back in time to John Kassari's (user Ehhh) first build I saw where he ran Snow-Covered Forests, Dark Depths and Into the North as a way to ramp and get the Stage/Depths combo online early and easy. It may not be horrible, but I still think I prefer to have plays like turn 1 Top, turn 2 Explore, turn 3 possible Titan over anything involving Solemn. It may not be bad, but it could certainly be interesting.

That Kassari build is basically what I'm using, though without Into the North. If we're assuming that Solemn immediately gets exiled, one could argue that that is actually better as far as setting up Primeval Titan goes. I'm always thrilled when an Oracle nets a land and then eats StP right before I plan to cast Titan. I would say that a 2-mana Rampant Growth is not enough, but 4 mana Rampant Growth + [2 life + opponent discards swords] or [draw + blocker] sounds good to me in theory. I'll try it out and see.

Explore is actually something I eschewed a while ago but am now reconsidering. I think I'd prefer testing Solemn, but I may be biased after some humiliating Blood Moon losses.

[mykatdied]

I actually maindecked Hangarback in an event about a month ago and noticed many of these same problems. I've since moved it into the sideboard and don't even bother bringing it in against decks with exiling removal (perhaps I should have mentioned that at the start, though it is why I stipulated nonwhite delver). I view it as a speed bump against BUG that can also be a threat if drawn late.

In my games, Hangarback and its thopters usually die before Jace or the 1-of Deluges and Pulses arrive on the scene.



That Kassari build is basically what I'm using, though without Into the North. If we're assuming that Solemn immediately gets exiled, one could argue that that is actually better as far as setting up Primeval Titan goes. I'm always thrilled when an Oracle nets a land and then eats StP right before I plan to cast Titan. I would say that a 2-mana Rampant Growth is not enough, but 4 mana Rampant Growth + [2 life + opponent discards swords] or [draw + blocker] sounds good to me in theory. I'll try it out and see.

Explore is actually something I eschewed a while ago but am now reconsidering. I think I'd prefer testing Solemn, but I may be biased after some humiliating Blood Moon losses.

Hangarback can be neat, I am just not sure how interested in that card I am. I suppose if compared to Veteran Explorer as essentially a Moat like effect, it definitely has merit. We saw how Kassari playing Explorer early against Shardless held his opponent's Goyf back for 2 turns.

My builds have always run explore for the ramp and cantrip (much like you view solemn), plus when we run several basic forests, blood moon isn't usually an issue. I very rarely have ever cared about blood moon running my GW build because of oracle and explore for ramp as well as ancient stirrings for helping find the lands that we want to ramp. Now having Ugin as an 8 mana blood moon removal, plus bolt machine. I don't ever fear blood moon.

[TheBoozeCube]

How have you guys been liking the new Ulamog in this deck?

He's amazing in mono-G. I tutor for him nearly as much as Kozilek now. That casting trigger has just as much impact as annihilator 4. Being able to immediately choose the 2 biggest problems is basically equivalent to waiting to untap and eating 4 of your opponent's choice.


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[drude1]

Agree 100%. Numalog is quite good. Honestly, I think I've only played one game where my opponent didn't just auto-scoop when it came down; and then they scooped after karakas and played again. It's nearly as good as Emrakul with a Karakas.


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[Pdingo]

Hey Guys!!

Today i played a 20 People Tournament in Lucerne Switzerland with Mono G 12 Post.

Here my List:
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Crop Rotation
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Expedition Map
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Vesuva
1 Karakas
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 All Is Dust
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Maze of Ith
6 Forest
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Exploration

SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Obstinate Baloth
SB: 1 Oblivion Stone
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

Match Ups:

Deathblade 2:0
Sneak and Show 2:0
BUG Controll/Midrange(Without agent) 2:0
ID
ID

Quarter:
2:1 Infect ( Was really close, He misplayed it)
Semi:
2:1 Esper Mentor
Finals:
Sneak and Show 2:1(Really close, he had omniscience in the SB)

So i won a Wb USea:)
Dephts and exploration are really really good. 3 Exploration is too much but i prefer 2 now over explore;)
Specially for fast Match up like Burn oder infect.

I will take out the Mindbreak Traps for the next tournament because right know i don't see a lot Stormbased Match Ups.
Dismember is the new Shit that i do try out.

Thanks and just ask me for questions about Card choices;)

Greets Dingo

[k_omega]

Hey Guys!!

Thanks and just ask me for questions about Card choices;)

Greets Dingo

How did you decide to play 4 Sphere of Resistance with no Thorns or Trinispheres? Lists I've seen have been all over the place in regards to their choice of sphere effects and I'd like to know your thoughts.

[TheBoozeCube]

Thanks and just ask me for questions about Card choices;)

Greets Dingo

Congrats! I'm curious about the Obstinate Baloths. What matchups are they for, and what do you sub out to bring them in?



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[Hopo]

Congrats! I'm curious about the Obstinate Baloths. What matchups are they for?

A not-so-wild guess: Hymn decks.

[Pdingo]

Hei guys

@spheres
The Spheres are for Controll Deck like Miracles or Blades Deck.
they are very Good;) also for storm of course.

@baloth
they are for hymn and lili Decks. i like them very much right now.
they are ok against burn.

[Drixx]

Hi,
to pdingo: congratz !! wb sea pretty nice for twenty people ;)

For Ug builds i'm testing mystic remora and seems to be very solid draw engine against discard and probe decks i think except d&t is fine for all matchups what do you think ? i'm not sure if it was posted already in any old thread about this card if anybody tested .. thanks

[maCHOOga]

So komega and myself played at the now monthly quest for power legacy events. Collectively I think there was 4-6 12post decks of various flavors in a sea of 70ish people. That's insane!

Personally after starting 1-1, soon was 4-2 heading into round 7, playing for top16 credit. Of course, my deck decided to mulligan into oblivion and I started game 2 against shardless BUG with only 5 cards in hands. Over the course of 7 rounds, I think I mulliganed 80% of all games, including two mulligan's to five.

My losses on the day were too:
Round 2, Game 3 against Lands
- Took 20 from marit liege leaving me at 1. I tap out to cast Ugin to remove the token. He untaps casts gamble and punishing fires me. (He left 1 in the deck game 3 for this scenario.) I did have a line where I could cast crop rotation into karakas to deal with the token, but I would have still died to the gamble / punishing fire. It was also unexpected, because usually they cut all the punishing fires, since they do nothing.

Round 4, Game 3 against Merfolk
- I squeak out game 1. Game two he plays multiple standstills. I of course stare at my krosan grip and realize how bad it is in this scenario. It appeared that he wasn't playing any sort of "hate" cards: back to basics, chalice, etc. Game three he goes Aether Vial into lord, lord, chalice of the void X = 1. I fire off a crop rotation since my top library cards are all 1 drops, he counters the crop rotation. End result is I'm top locked, down on lands and chalice is in play.

Round 7, Game 2 against Shardless BUG
My initial hand is 6 lands and a flusterstorm, 0 cloudposts. I opt to send it away, since it does basically nothing. I then draw 5 color spells and a glimmerpost. 5 cards was a loose keep and I eventually get rolled over by tarmogoyfs.

[Ecstatic_Conch]

That Kassari build is basically what I'm using, though without Into the North. If we're assuming that Solemn immediately gets exiled, one could argue that that is actually better as far as setting up Primeval Titan goes. I'm always thrilled when an Oracle nets a land and then eats StP right before I plan to cast Titan. I would say that a 2-mana Rampant Growth is not enough, but 4 mana Rampant Growth + [2 life + opponent discards swords] or [draw + blocker] sounds good to me in theory. I'll try it out and see.

Explore is actually something I eschewed a while ago but am now reconsidering. I think I'd prefer testing Solemn, but I may be biased after some humiliating Blood Moon losses.

I would highly recommend explore. It was one of my best cards when I played a G/W build. It speeds you up (a must when you're not playing show and tell) and cantrips at the very least.

[drude1]

So I have a larger legacy tourney coming up this weekend. I'm going to try an amalgamation of my list with terminus and ehhhh's list with GSZenith. What do people think of this....
3 X primeval Titan
1 X veteran explorer
1 X Kosilek
1 X Nulamog
1 X Emrakul
4 X crop rotation
4 X sensei's top
3 X pithing needle
2 X candelabra
3 X expedition map
4 X Terminus
2 X Ugin
3 X Green Sun's Zenith
1 X dryad arbor
1 X bojuka bog
1 X Eye of Ugin
1 X tabernacle
1 X karakas
1 X thespians stage
1 X cavern of souls
1 X glacial chasm
4 X cloudpost
4 X glimmerpost
2 X vesuva
4 X windswept Heath
3 X forest
1 X plains
2 X Savannah

SB
1 X scavenging ooze
1 X Melira
1 X Gaddock Teag
1 X rec sage
2 X Canonist
2 X krosan grip
4 X leyline of sanctity
1 X surgical extraction
2 X mindbreak trap

SB is very open. Don't know if I love the traps as they are only for storm. Also not sure if Melira is worth it. It's one MU and Melira seems a little slow. I feel like I am missing low cc creature removal, but in play testing it hasn't been too much of an issue. Again, looking for any input, especially from booze or ehhhh, as you guys have a lot of history with this type of deck. Thanks.


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[Pdingo]

Thanks Drixx;))
Yeah Usea is nice:P Welcome to Switzerland haha

@Some Card Choices

Explore vs Exploration

First i liked Explore a lot. But after a lot testing i boardet it out a lot. It can tap you out and i don't like that because of Crop Rotation actions ore some free mana for map or whatever. Specially against Match up with Counters i never liked the explore. It's just like you tap you and do nothing much even if it resolve. It's very important for a aggro Match like RUG Delver or Burn.

Then i tested the exploration. First my thoughts were like this card does nothing in this deck. But then it changed.
It's sooo good in the Start hand. I don't like 3-4 because you don't want it to draw it in the late Game and you don't have space for a Card like this i think. 1-2 or is fine depends on the Meta. I like 2 to be fast. Important also for the Dephts Combo. Forest into exploration into another land into map on t1 is damn nice.

Also 61 Card isn't a Option for me. More than 60 cards is just wrong.

I don't care about draw 1 Card in this deck. I prefer the important speed more than a slow 2 mana sorcery.
If you don't agree you should test it. ;)

@Terminus

Please guys are you serious?
For what do you play a greedy Card in a sometimes greedy deck??? And some People don't play BS and still play Terminus. You should prefer cards like all is Dust . It's a lot better!!!
I don't get it. Sry for that but i have to say that:P

Greets Dingo

[Morden]

@Terminus

Please guys are you serious?
For what do you play a greedy Card in a sometimes greedy deck??? And some People don't play BS and still play Terminus. You should prefer cards like all is Dust . It's a lot better!!!
I don't get it. Sry for that but i have to say that:P

Greets Dingo

I play Terminus because it costs six mana less at instant speed :P

[k_omega]

Hei guys
@spheres
The Spheres are for Controll Deck like Miracles or Blades Deck.
they are very Good;) also for storm of course.

I've never considered bringing spheres in against Miracles. Thanks for making me think about that. My question, however, was more about why you chose Sphere of Resistance specifically instead of Thorn of Amethyst or Trinisphere.

So komega and myself played at the now monthly quest for power legacy events. Collectively I think there was 4-6 12post decks of various flavors in a sea of 70ish people. That's insane!

I counted 3 U/G and 2 G/W 12 Post decks among 84 people. Ironically, Counterbalances may have been outnumbered by Cloudposts as I only saw four Miracles players. The other GW player was using Burgeoning, From Beyond, Eureka, and lots of Savannahs but didn't seem to be doing particularly well with them (he did strongly praise Eureka, though). I myself ended 4-3 also, with not much worthy of report except a resounding endorsement of maindeck Glacial Chasm and shaken confidence in the utility of Leyline of Sanctity against Burn.

I would highly recommend explore. It was one of my best cards when I played a G/W build. It speeds you up (a must when you're not playing show and tell) and cantrips at the very least.

I played Explore for a while and cut it because the extra land would often be the last land I had. Consequently on the following turn I would have the same lands in play that would have been there if I had just made normal land drops and had another card in place of Explore (Explore-ing does get better in that scenario if you have two ETB-tapped lands though). Since then I swapped Explores for Relics of Progenitus to keep the cantrip option, free up sideboard slots, and address Tarmogoyfs.

[Pdingo]

@Sphere

Thorn is non creature spell... I like also to slow down elves when i'm on the play;))
But Mentor Lists are very important. Thorn does nothing..
I liked Trinisphere in a meta of Omnitell but right now nobody play a omnideck.
3 Mana is too much. I mean yes sometimes you can play it Turn 2 but i think thus situation is too greedy.
And trinisphere doesn't make mentor in a cc 4 spell.

[MechTactical]

After some rather hilarious raging at mono green testing, I settled on a list that is treating me well:

// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 [SOM] Trinket Mage

// Spells
2 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [TSP] Trickbind

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [NPH] Beast Within
SB: 4 [AL] Force of Will

Rock man finally you are running those FoWs. anywayz with 2 trinkets in the MB why not run more fetchable artifacts like EE, relic,…?
i'll run a similar list. Although I'll probably replace ugin slots with EE. Someone wrote some time ago that trinket mages are the epitome of cuteness / slowness in the UG builds. I’m not sure he was right since they do fill so many roles. What’s you’re excuse for running them? sad to see only 2 SnT in there...